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Can an Eventide H3000 or Eclipse sound like in this H8000 demo?
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LonDonsen
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3rd January 2011
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Can an Eventide H3000 or Eclipse sound like in this H8000 demo?

Hi, I'm considering to buy either an Eventide Eclipse or H3000 D/SE. I never owned an Eventide box. The only similar tool I ever used was Echo-Boy, I guess. I heard the H8000 demo below and was pretty amazed by some sounds it does. Unfortunately the H8000/H7600 is way too expensive for me. My questions are:

  1. Can a single H3000 patch consist of a chain like delay>chorus>pitchshift> AND reverb??? Or is its DSP power too sluggish to do that, so that most patches consist either of delay>chorus OR reverb only?
  2. I guess the Eclipse is able to do such complex chains, right?
  3. Please take a listen to the H8000 demo below and tell me if an H3000 or Eclipse can do similar things that you hear at 5:40 (multiple voice shiftings) and at 7:30 (making complex chords out of a single note)
Thanks.

http://soundcloud.com/eventideaudio/eventide-h8000-audio-demo/s-nDlTV
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3rd January 2011
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The harmonizer power of the larger H series is usually using too much DSP for the others to handle those sounds.
that and a bunch of other reasons.

The elcipse is nice but in that price range I'd personally opt for the H3 D/SE or maybe a H4K.. the D/SE has patch factory and Mod factory.
how may effects in chains the eclipse can have I'm not sure but It will dependent on the algorithm.

in the 3K series the algorithms aren't programmable. they are preset.
that's possibly the same with the eclipse.

The D/SE would get my interest.
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i love my eclipse but the h8000 and Orville are in another league.

the eclipse can chain a few diff algos depending on sample rate and signal flow

if you can't afford the big boys.. maybe partner 2 diff eventides like an h3000 d/se with an eclipse or dsp7000 if you want to edit your own algos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
The harmonizer power of the larger H series is usually using too much DSP for the others to handle those sounds.
that and a bunch of other reasons.

The elcipse is nice but in that price range I'd personally opt for the H3 D/SE or maybe a H4K.. the D/SE has patch factory and Mod factory.
how may effects in chains the eclipse can have I'm not sure but It will dependent on the algorithm.

in the 3K series the algorithms aren't programmable. they are preset.
that's possibly the same with the eclipse.

The D/SE would get my interest.
You could achieve a similar effect with a pair of H-3000's. Note that the 3k series can be updated with the Mod Factory/Patch Factory EPROMs, and as mentioned above does provide some degree of programmability over the algorithms above and beyond changing parameters, but it is (more than a bit) tedious.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
You could achieve a similar effect with a pair of H-3000's. Note that the 3k series can be updated with the Mod Factory/Patch Factory EPROMs, and as mentioned above does provide some degree of programmability over the algorithms above and beyond changing parameters, but it is (more than a bit) tedious.
is that a simple user update would you say ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
  1. Can a single H3000 patch consist of a chain like delay>chorus>pitchshift> AND reverb??? Or is its DSP power too sluggish to do that, so that most patches consist either of delay>chorus OR reverb only?
  2. I guess the Eclipse is able to do such complex chains, right?
  3. Please take a listen to the H8000 demo below and tell me if an H3000 or Eclipse can do similar things that you hear at 5:40 (multiple voice shiftings) and at 7:30 (making complex chords out of a single note)
  1. A H3K-series machine is not powerful enough to do a series chain like that, though its single DSP engine can do some combo effects.
  2. The Eclipse has a dual-engine architecture into which two algos may be loaded. Some Eclipse algos feature multiple effects, so the Eclipse can realize complex serial/parallel processing, but if you want total control of what and when and how, a modular-level Eventide is the way to go.
  3. The Eclipse can approach some of that, but if multi-voice diatonic shifting is a priority, a H7K or above is the way to go. A used H7K can be had for not much more than an Eclipse.


cheers,
Ian
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Thanks a lot guys, your replies are very helpful. I would love to get an H7000/7500 but they are rare to find in Germany.
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Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
Thanks a lot guys, your replies are very helpful. I would love to get an H7000/7500 but they are rare to find in Germany.
Keep your eye on SOS reader's ads (effects section) . 7000s appear from time to time .

Readers Ads - Effects | Processors
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
is that a simple user update would you say ?
Simple user update if you can find someone selling the D/SE EPROMs (or wherever else the Mod stuff was packaged). It's been a long time since I had a 3000 open, but I do remember a sheet from Eventide giving instructions on how to modify old OS boards fo rthe newer EPROMs if necessary. Most of the later H3000's were already set to accept the newer OS updates.

Some info used to be in the Eventide knowledgebase but you may have to dig around to find it.
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Can an Eventide H3000 or Eclipse sound like in this H8000 demo?

I had both an H3000 DS/X and the Eclipse. I regret selling the H3000 and will be buying another one. The Eclipse was great but I liked the larger screen on the H3000 much, much better. It just made it easier to program.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Simple user update if you can find someone selling the D/SE EPROMs (or wherever else the Mod stuff was packaged). It's been a long time since I had a 3000 open, but I do remember a sheet from Eventide giving instructions on how to modify old OS boards fo rthe newer EPROMs if necessary. Most of the later H3000's were already set to accept the newer OS updates.

Some info used to be in the Eventide knowledgebase but you may have to dig around to find it.
Thanks thumbsup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
  1. Can a single H3000 patch consist of a chain like delay>chorus>pitchshift> AND reverb??? Or is its DSP power too sluggish to do that, so that most patches consist either of delay>chorus OR reverb only?
No. Even if does contain all of these FX, you should expect them to be "basic", for lack of a better word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
  1. I guess the Eclipse is able to do such complex chains, right?
More likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
  1. Please take a listen to the H8000 demo below and tell me if an H3000 or Eclipse can do similar things that you hear at 5:40 (multiple voice shiftings) and at 7:30 (making complex chords out of a single note)
The FX that you are hearing at 7:30 is a tweaked preset, #733 named "Your Harmony Device". It contains a mono loop which maxes at 10 secs, and it's 3 pitchshifters --> autopanner --> reverb. You build a sequence of chords (by adjusting the parameters of the pitchshifters) and then you progress through the sequence with either internal or external triggers. I highly doubt it can be done either with the H3000 or with the Eclipse alone.
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Thank you OurDarkness, very helpful. BTW I loved Anne Clarks "Our Darkness" when I was a teenager. I'm 50% Greek and 50% German and I loved Vangelis & Kraftwerk & Tangerine Dream. But now I love Markus Schulz a German American, haha.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
Thank you OurDarkness, very helpful.
Glad to be of help.thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
BTW I loved Anne Clarks "Our Darkness" when I was a teenager.
I still love that track and I am not a teenager anymore.
(OK, sometimes I am).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
I'm 50% Greek and 50% German and I loved Vangelis & Kraftwerk & Tangerine Dream. But now I love Markus Schulz a German American, haha.
Markus Schulz or ... Klaus Schulze?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
The FX that you are hearing at 7:30 is a tweaked preset, #733 named "Your Harmony Device". It contains a mono loop which maxes at 10 secs, and it's 3 pitchshifters --> autopanner --> reverb. You build a sequence of chords (by adjusting the parameters of the pitchshifters) and then you progress through the sequence with either internal or external triggers. I highly doubt it can be done either with the H3000 or with the Eclipse alone.
Is it hard to get that running on a synth and can you explain (In laymans terms) how to do it?
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Originally Posted by Rusty_OHara View Post
Is it hard to get that running on a synth and can you explain (In laymans terms) how to do it?
You mean building that FX with a synth or processing a synth with that FX?

In the audio example found in Eventide's site, the initial sound is a violin sample but I don't know what Matthias used to trigger the progression of chords.

In any case, the initial sound can be either a mono or a stereo signal. It doesn't matter because, either way, it will be summed. Afterwards it is sent into a delay and mixer combo to get some feedback.

The delayed signal is sent into a multishifter module which outputs 3 different pitch-shiftings, thus a 3-note chord. You do this by adjusting the values and these values are pre-programmed, i.e.

1st chord could be I
2nd chord could be IV
3rd chord could be II
4th chord could be V

For each of these chords, it is implied that you have a different set of pitch-shiftings. Think of it as sets of numbers saved as a chord. How the actual progress takes place depends on a complex counter mechanism with a reset control and a clock and this is a bit difficult (or even impossible) to emulate on other FX units. Probably you can get very close if you have a Nord Modular G2.

You then progress through the above settings by pressing a key on the H8000-FW which is aptly named "Trigger" or by using an external trigger. There is provision in the multishifter for a X-fade time, so that the transition from one chord to the next one is as abrupt or as smooth as you want.

The initial delayed output and the 3 pitchshiftings are mixed and then fed into a Reverb D module which in turn feeds 2 autopanners.
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Wow, cool answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
You mean building that FX with a synth or processing a synth with that FX?
I mean processing a synth with that FX.

I think I tried it once, but got confused as to how to get it running and triggering it properly... might have to see if I can revist it at some point in time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
You mean building that FX with a synth or processing a synth with that FX?

In the audio example found in Eventide's site, the initial sound is a violin sample but I don't know what Matthias used to trigger the progression of chords.

In any case, the initial sound can be either a mono or a stereo signal. It doesn't matter because, either way, it will be summed. Afterwards it is sent into a delay and mixer combo to get some feedback.

The delayed signal is sent into a multishifter module which outputs 3 different pitch-shiftings, thus a 3-note chord. You do this by adjusting the values and these values are pre-programmed, i.e.

1st chord could be I
2nd chord could be IV
3rd chord could be II
4th chord could be V

For each of these chords, it is implied that you have a different set of pitch-shiftings. Think of it as sets of numbers saved as a chord. How the actual progress takes place depends on a complex counter mechanism with a reset control and a clock and this is a bit difficult (or even impossible) to emulate on other FX units. Probably you can get very close if you have a Nord Modular G2.

You then progress through the above settings by pressing a key on the H8000-FW which is aptly named "Trigger" or by using an external trigger. There is provision in the multishifter for a X-fade time, so that the transition from one chord to the next one is as abrupt or as smooth as you want.

The initial delayed output and the 3 pitchshiftings are mixed and then fed into a Reverb D module which in turn feeds 2 autopanners.


There is no hardware processor that can do what "Your Harmony Device" does. I created this algorithm in 2000, while in studio at the Rhythmic Conservatory in Copenhagen. The purpose was to have a singer create a choir chordal progression on which she improvised. The song was then recorded.
It consists of a looper going into 3 pitchshifting, autopan and verb. The shifters use control tables where the user can input pitch shifting amounts relative to the pitch of the looped note, so that 4 parts harmonies can be created. It's really cool and unique.

The Xfade parameter doesn't do what you describe. Its function is setting the pitch shifting splice, adjusting its audio quality. You generally don't need to change it at all.

I
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis View Post
There is no hardware processor that can do what "Your Harmony Device" does. I created this algorithm in 2000, while in studio at the Rhythmic Conservatory in Copenhagen. The purpose was to have a singer create a choir chordal progression on which she improvised. The song was then recorded.
It consists of a looper going into 3 pitchshifting, autopan and verb. The shifters use control tables where the user can input pitch shifting amounts relative to the pitch of the looped note, so that 4 parts harmonies can be created. It's really cool and unique.

The Xfade parameter doesn't do what you describe. Its function is setting the pitch shifting splice, adjusting its audio quality. You generally don't need to change it at all.

I
Cool! thanks for explaining this.thumbsup
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Yep, thanks italo de angelis One day I will be a proud H8000/7600 owner, that's for sure. In the meantime it's going to be a smaller brother.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
Yep, thanks italo de angelis One day I will be a proud H8000/7600 owner, that's for sure. In the meantime it's going to be a smaller brother.
Coming to your original questions....

-Can a single H3000 patch consist of a chain like delay>chorus>pitchshift> AND reverb??? Or is its DSP power too sluggish to do that, so that most patches consist either of delay>chorus OR reverb only?

Can't do all of that in a signle patch. The most it can reach is a couple of delays + chorus or pitch shifter plus delays. Mid '80s technology...not so much power to get many effects at the same time WITH this kind of quality.




-I guess the Eclipse is able to do such complex chains, right?
Yes, it can.



-Please take a listen to the H8000 demo below and tell me if an H3000 or Eclipse can do similar things that you hear at 5:40 (multiple voice shiftings) and at 7:30 (making complex chords out of a single note)
Well... you can use up to 8 voice of pitch shifting (chromatic or diatonic) and this would use up all dsp resources.
Creating a loop and processing it thru a 4 voice shifter is possible on Eclipse. What is NOT possible though is to program control tables to tune the shifters to desired chords. MIDI CC messages can achieve that...but it would be a long time programming nightmare to try to setup such mechanism.
A 7000/7500/Orville/H7600/H8000 are all capable of it, though.

For now, if the question is to choose between a 3000 and an Eclipse, get the second one, definitely.
But you may well consider a 7000/7500 on the used market. It may be very convenient against of a new Eclipse cost.


good luck
I
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis View Post
Coming to your original questions....

-Can a single H3000 patch consist of a chain like delay>chorus>pitchshift> AND reverb??? Or is its DSP power too sluggish to do that, so that most patches consist either of delay>chorus OR reverb only?

Can't do all of that in a signle patch. The most it can reach is a couple of delays + chorus or pitch shifter plus delays. Mid '80s technology...not so much power to get many effects at the same time WITH this kind of quality.




-I guess the Eclipse is able to do such complex chains, right?
Yes, it can.



-Please take a listen to the H8000 demo below and tell me if an H3000 or Eclipse can do similar things that you hear at 5:40 (multiple voice shiftings) and at 7:30 (making complex chords out of a single note)
Well... you can use up to 8 voice of pitch shifting (chromatic or diatonic) and this would use up all dsp resources.
Creating a loop and processing it thru a 4 voice shifter is possible on Eclipse. What is NOT possible though is to program control tables to tune the shifters to desired chords. MIDI CC messages can achieve that...but it would be a long time programming nightmare to try to setup such mechanism.
A 7000/7500/Orville/H7600/H8000 are all capable of it, though.

For now, if the question is to choose between a 3000 and an Eclipse, get the second one, definitely.
But you may well consider a 7000/7500 on the used market. It may be very convenient against of a new Eclipse cost.


good luck
I
Thanks.., very interesting infos here, and the perfect answer to my original question. I saw an Orville for 2200.-€ lately, it's coming closer, yeah!

Thank you!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonDonsen View Post
Thanks.., very interesting infos here, and the perfect answer to my original question. I saw an Orville for 2200.-€ lately, it's coming closer, yeah!

Thank you!


Now THAT is a good one!!!
Consider that in time you may also upgrade it to H8000FW.

cheers
I
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My Eclipse has an algorithm that does pretty much what you heard at 6:59 but that vocal harmony effect I have yet to even get close running through the presets......THat SOUNDS like several engines in parallel where the Eclipse can only run two effects block engines in either series or parallel at a time. The FW has ALOT more going on under the hood and that is why it is so much more cost wise and signal wise.. you can learn more about the Eclipse algorithm capabilities here:
https://www.eventide.com/~/media/Fil...4%200%201.ashx
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Guys, again some time has passed and blackhole and modfactory as a plug - what do you think about the HW?

I have a 3500 D/SE which I love and use all the time. I could buy an Orville for USD 2100. I am sure I would like it, but if they are tumbling in value now there is no rush I think.

Any opinions...should I get the orville or not?



Thanks!
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I had an H8000FW, which I sold and replaced with an Eclipse, which I sold and replaced with an Orville. The Orville's price/features seem to be the best of all possible worlds; the only thing it really lacks from the H8000FW that I'd actually use are the optical digital outputs. But I got an Alesis AI4 connected to the AES I/O on the Orville so I can have it set up 2 effects sends using the spare ADAT output of my soundcard.

Keep in mind that while you CAN upgrade an Orville to full H8000FW status, it'll cost almost as much as getting another Orville. Given that choice, I'd take 2 Orvilles any day!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmuck View Post
Guys, again some time has passed and blackhole and modfactory as a plug - what do you think about the HW?

I have a 3500 D/SE which I love and use all the time. I could buy an Orville for USD 2100. I am sure I would like it, but if they are tumbling in value now there is no rush I think.

Any opinions...should I get the orville or not?



Thanks!
That's a bit similar to my situation. I bought a 3500 and loved it so much I thought I would upgrade to a DSP 7000. ( similar engine to the Orville, but less power)
So I bought one with the intention of selling the 3500.
It turns out it is a very different beast to 3500, awesome in a different way. Less personalty, but much higher quality.
So I've decided to keep them both.

At around 2k the Orville would be a great buy, they will probably drop a bit more but it wont go down too much I believe.

I really don't think there is such a thing as too many Eventides.
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