WTB: Memory-Moog LAMM

[wild modulation]

One of the few big polys i never owned, sadly

and I wont pay 7+k for one.

[Demokid]

A friend of mine owned a LAMM a couple of years ago. He sold it since he thought it sounded harsh. Another thing that annoyed him about the LAMM how slow it was when controlling parameters via MIDI e.g. filter cut-off. Notes got sort of delayed or the filter change happened after the note. It was little tighter when controlling the filter using its filter CV in connection on the back.

The LAMM is not great for classic Vince Clarke blips and other classic analog sounds. I find this pretty strange for such an expensive sizer.
I owned an OB8 at the same time and we both thought it sounded much smoother warmer and had a lot more modulation possibilities.

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by Demokid

A friend of mine owned a LAMM a couple of years ago. He sold it since he thought it sounded harsh.

Your friend is mistaken

listen at 4:13

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by Demokid

The LAMM is not great for classic Vince Clarke blips and other classic analog sounds. I find this pretty strange for such an expensive sizer.
I owned an OB8 at the same time and we both thought it sounded much smoother warmer and had a lot more modulation possibilities.

Couldn't disagree more. You could make a record with just an MM such is it's range of classic analogue tones..from super harsh, to super mellow, it's capable of a ton of stuff. But if you simply don't like the tone..that's another matter.

And I definitely would never call the MM short on modulation possibilities for a poly.

[bizness80]

Originally Posted by flat earth

Your friend is mistaken

listen at 4:13

Just a matter of taste. Memorymoog brass and strings always sound harsh and phasey (for lack of a better description) to me, even in that video. Maybe its the CEM 3340 that bugs me. MKS-80 rev. 4's and Prophet 5 rev 3's sound similarly harsh to me as well. Or maybe I'm just full of sh*t. Either way, brash brash brash to my ears. I do love those marimbas at 3:13 though (one of Mr. V's demos also feature some nice ones)!

Maybe JP can post some demos that show me the light when he gets his MM. Also, can anyone name any classic (or modern, for that matter) tracks that feature the MM prominently?

[Demokid]

flat earth: Sounds good, not the kind of sounds I make... too much 80's Van Halen pop rock. I guess just like the Oberheim better when it comes to polysizers.

Space Station: I believe you that you can make a complete song with a MM. It is a fine polyphonic analog sizer. I’m just saying it is a bit slow when it comes to controlling parameters via MIDI. This makes it hard to create snappy blips and other typical synthpop ála Vince Clarke sounds.
It’s a polyphonic sizer and I guess it was not meant to make such sounds. It was meant to create classic rock sounds, strings, organs, leads, pads and stuff and it’s nothing wrong with that.
If you pay a lot of money for a LAMM with upgraded CPU, loads of MIDI possibilities then you might think it would be possible to do sounds like a Prophet~08 can produce.
My friend just couldn’t do thesis kind of sounds on his very expensive LAMM. Now he owns a Prophet~5 and Prophet~08 and is very happy.

[Mr Arkadin]

Originally Posted by bizness80

Maybe its the CEM 3340 that bugs me. MKS-80 rev. 4's and Prophet 5 rev 3's sound similarly harsh to me as well. Or maybe I'm just full of sh*t.

If you stick with that last option you're on fairly safe ground.

[Space Station]

demokid: i dont use MIDI, but I know the internal arpeggiator can slow down when turning knobs..The processor is overloaded for sure in the MM..best option I've found is the Kenton fitted to a plus.

As far as sound goes, well it works both ways..the P08 or P5 would be hopeless at getting MM sounds..due to it not having the 3rd VCO amongst other things.

[chrisso]

I owned an MM+ for a few years and although it's a great synth, there's no way i would have more than a couple of grand tied up in one.
I don't love them that much.
I agree, vintage synths can all be difficult to maintain, although having owned quite a few, the MM was definitely more fragile than most others I've owned.
I was quite happy to sell it in the end.

[dougt]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Its no more reliable than a plus with all the factory mods carried out. As an owner and servicer of many memorymoogs, its all relative to the version you own. And the main reliabilty mods can be carried out yourself for a fraction of the lamm cost. I would never dream of paying that amount out on one.

I was chatting with Richard of RL music only a few days ago about memorymoogs and he says after servicing over 700 synths he doesnt consider the MM to be particularly any more unreliable than any other comparible monster poly from the day. I agree 100%.

Dont belive everything you read, well at least take it with a pinch of salt anyway.

Absolutely true in my experience as well. My friend just got a LAMM and it really isn't all that much better/reliable than a good MM+. We went through all the LAMM mods comparing it to my MM+ and were both disappointed in what wasn't done like the miles of DIP cables carrying CVs and crappy connectors were still there. Sending it very fast MIDI notes still choked it as well. Sonically no difference. About the only thing we concluded was the front panel LEDs don't flicker as much as the regular MM due to the extra processor. I'd guess maybe $1000 is the top end of what I'd consider a LAMM upgrade to be worth certianly not the $5000 or whatever it is now. Certainly makes the $200 JP-6 Europa or $350 Chroma CC+ upgrades seem cheap and a much better deal!

[SWAN808]

so then the key with the MM is to get a good one - latest version - and then send it off to someone who knows its weak points to get them sorted?
Space Station would you mind clarifying just in case I see one?!

[The Real MC]

Any of the vintage analog polysynths have their achilles heels which unfortunately isn't cheap or easy to sort out. I got the bugs sorted out of my MM (replaced the cheap PC board connectors) and then gigged with it without a failure (stayed in tune a LOT better). I'm restoring an OB-X and there are a lot of failure points in those things, and I'm about to place an order for new caps, trimpots, CMOS, and opamps. The Oberheim bean counters cut a little too far back then.

[The Real MC]

Originally Posted by bizness80

Just a matter of taste. Memorymoog brass and strings always sound harsh and phasey (for lack of a better description) to me, even in that video.

If you watch the video closely, the instructor turns on a device before playing the MM strings. You're definitely hearing a phase shifter on the MM.

MM can sound brash but that's a product of the programmer. My MM brass patches sound better than that.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

so then the key with the MM is to get a good one - latest version - and then send it off to someone who knows its weak points to get them sorted?
Space Station would you mind clarifying just in case I see one?!

yes definitely..

[murphythecat87]

What are the 5 "big" polysynthesizers?

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by murphythecat87

What are the 5 "big" polysynthesizers?

Probably debatable:

-Prophet 5,10,T8
-Oberheim OB-X,OB-Xa,OB-8
-Jupiter 8,6
-MemoryMoog
-Chroma or CS-80

[Xero]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

Probably debatable:

-Prophet 5,10,T8
-Oberheim OB-X,OB-Xa,OB-8
-Jupiter 8,6
-MemoryMoog
-Chroma or CS-80

i'd probably throw elka synthex onto that list somewhere, but sounds about right

i've always been wanting a synthex and a memorymoog out of the "big polys i don't have"...but my prophet 5 + jupiter 8 keep me content for now...i kinda want an ob8 or something too...i have nothing from oberheim atm...i feel like i gotta own one some day.

the whole instability thing scares me a little with the memorymoog but it sounds like if you get a plus in working condition then it's not all that likely to suddenly keel over and die or anything...out of the old big polys, i think the jupiter 8 is probably the most stable, 12 bit or not, my 12bit is my most stable VCO poly, way more stable than any of my CEM polys anyway, but i think the moral of the story is, if stuff is properly maintained and calibrated, it should generally work for a long time before needing maintenance.

[phutureboy]

Totally debatable, nothing makes sense other then your own experience really. And if YOU think the Juno 106 is the best then you are RIGHT. Now personnally I almost agree with seen-da-sizer, although I would rather say if you have to pick the 5 most inspiring :

-RSF PolyKobol
-Chroma
-Waldorf Wave
-MemoryMoog LAMM
-Yamaha CS-80

And right after :
-Oberheim OB-X with multimode modification or Oberheim 4Voice
-Jupiter 8 (6 is OK but is not of the same class)

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by phutureboy

Totally debatable, nothing makes sense other then your own experience really. And if YOU think the Juno 106 is the best then you are RIGHT. Now personnally I almost agree with seen-da-sizer, although I would rather say if you have to pick the 5 most inspiring :

My most inspiring 5 is actually very close to yours:

-RSF PolyKobol
-Chroma
-Waldorf Wave
-Oberheim OB-X
-Elka Synthex

Notably this list includes synths that are on the rarer end of availability. Not that the P5 or JP8 are bad, but I never warmed up to them.

[bizness80]

Originally Posted by phutureboy

Totally debatable, nothing makes sense other then your own experience really. And if YOU think the Juno 106 is the best then you are RIGHT. Now personnally I almost agree with seen-da-sizer, although I would rather say if you have to pick the 5 most inspiring :

-RSF PolyKobol
-Chroma
-Waldorf Wave
-MemoryMoog LAMM
-Yamaha CS-80

And right after :
-Oberheim OB-X with multimode modification or Oberheim 4Voice
-Jupiter 8 (6 is OK but is not of the same class)

Wow, so you've actually used a PolyKobol before? I thought those were uber rare.

[golden beers]

btw i got an email back from this gumtree guy:

Hi,

Still for sale.Unfortunately, I just arrived in Italy and I'm going to stay here as long as my job requires. I left the synth to my brother, before leaving to Italy, he's from Liverpool. If interested indeed in buying it and have the funds available, please let me know and we'll set up a meeting at your proposal or I can also have the synth delivered up to your address.

the bad english has really put me off. needless to say i'm not going to reply, the deal looks too good to be true, therefore it is.

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by golden beers

btw i got an email back from this gumtree guy:



the bad english has really put me off. needless to say i'm not going to reply, the deal looks too good to be true, therefore it is.

Yes this is fake, it's been on gumtree for months, been taken down, put back up about 20 times..100% scam.

Gumtree in the UK is a joke, I've actually never found any musical bargains that werent scams, it's that bad.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Yes this is fake, it's been on gumtree for months, been taken down, put back up about 20 times..100% scam.

Gumtree in the UK is a joke, I've actually never found any musical bargains that werent scams, it's that bad.

oh ive seen a couple that i'm sure are ok.

i saw a JX8P for £250 a while back. a very fair price. looked pretty legit.

but yea it's like our version of craigs list. take with a pinch of salt. i remember the good old days of loot. never been scammed there.

also bargains can be found on SOS. which is kind of like how loot used to be. but you have to do your research as there's also pleanty of stupidly overpriced items there. sadly, ebay is best.

[oldgearguy]

Originally Posted by bizness80

Wow, so you've actually used a PolyKobol before? I thought those were uber rare.

I actually did own a PolyKobol II for a number of years. When it worked it was the best sounding polysynth I ever heard (and I've owned all the ones mentioned so far).

Unfortunately, the amount of work necessary to bring it back to 100% working was more time and effort than I wanted to spend. I have a very strong dislike for the RSF circuit boards (components crammed in really tight, traces lift up easily, virtually no good documentation), and general design of the PolyKobol innards. I know Francois Buat had (has?) a lot of RSF gear and he's done amazing work in bringing them back to life, but he's about the only one in the world.

Since they are so rare and generally not working 100% if found, I don't put them on any 'top 5/top 10' lists.

[flat earth]

Originally Posted by Space Station

Gumtree in the UK is a joke, I've actually never found any musical bargains that werent scams, it's that bad.

Not true!

Although I thought it was a scam, I got a vgc JX10 + PG800 for £200 recently. There are some bargains about. I've had a few things off gumtree with no probs.

[Space Station]

I mean more high end, high price, iconic stuff like neve, neumann, memorymoogs...all fake so far. But yeh i saw that jx-10..

[Demokid]

My most inspiring five which I own or have owned:

Oberheim OB8 (Oh God how I miss this board)
Elka Synthex (Just love it. Very American sounding)
SCI Prophet~5 (This one can almost sound like a poly-model D)
Roland Jupiter-8 (sweet as a lamb)
Oberheim OB-Xa “8 voice/120 memories” (Sounds good but not enough modulation)

I use/used them in every track.

Regards
Demokid

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

As much as I want one, wouldn't buy a memory-moog unless it was a LAMM version. Too many issues..

Well I bought one! Not a LAMM though, but an MM+
AMAZING synth!
Trumps P5, JP8 and Chroma IMO.

I also bought a Trident..

[roginator]

Ok over my summer free days Ill do some upgrade to my memorymoog !

for now i know cca 10 weak spots that need some work!!!

molex connectors
small pin headers
IC sockets
Wiring (ground cables are bad)
PSU upgrade
recapping
new trim pots
cleaning switches and pots
some old ICs replacement Cmos TTL opamps
cleaning of oxidated ic pins in MM

....


that is like 70% of work needed on old Memorymoogs!!!
if you guys want i can do some photos when i start to do that!!!

I spoke to Rudy Lintronics
VERY VERY NICE GUY... i had to meet him when i was in germany few weeks before but I was short with time!!!
At the moment LAMM is 4000 euro and will go up in price also you have to wait 1-2 years for MOD!!! Leave Moog at Rudi and WAIT!! :(

I decided.. life is too short and that is too expensive!!!
Ill do all by myself!!!!
I can clean MM and do this mechanical work ...... all that will be time eating process... maybe like week or 2 and 200 euro max.... + kenton midi !!!
since they are not sensitive as ppl say .. I think its worth of work!!!

Ive seen worst synths to maintain than MM!!!
==============================

I have few questions for you MM freaks...

what is last MM eprom OS
does anybody have all mm upgrade docs
anybody have internal LAMM pictures maybe???

THANX

[jonnypowell]

That would be awesome.. take LOTS of pics.
I would like to do as much work on my MM as possible without a tech huge sums of money to do all the laborious bits.