Does TR-909 have a midi thru?

[fooddude]

Just got my 909 today and playing with her. Easy to learn after learning the 505, it's like the mothership to the tiny 505.

Anyways, read the manual already and tried searching the net/GL. Maybe a super n00b question...but does it have a midi-thru? It has 2 midi outs and 3 different midi settings I read (int, midi, and din). My master clock is my MPC 60 and I want the 909 slaved to it and most of the time run on it's own internal sequencer (and also have the MPC control it once in a while too); no problem in conecting those two.. But, I want to chain/slave more drum machines after the 909 with a midi-thru... can I?

Or does the 909 have to be at the very end of a midi-thru-chain??

[nutjob]

Originally Posted by fooddude

But, I want to chain/slave more drum machines after the 909 with a midi-thru... can I?

The MIDI out also acts as a thru.

Incidentally, on the topic of 909 MIDI outs... Many 909's have a problem using both midi outputs at the same time, though it can be corrected with a mod.

Enjoy your lovely drum machine!

edit: oh another thing... a freshly cleared 909 pattern will still have random external intrument sequences that will be sent out the MIDI output having the unintended consequence of triggering gear down the line. You will need to clear the external instrument part of the pattern... Ask if you get stuck with this...

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by nutjob

The MIDI out also acts as a thru.

Incidentally, on the topic of 909 MIDI outs... Many 909's have a problem using both midi outputs at the same time, though it can be corrected with a mod.

Enjoy your lovely drum machine!

edit: oh another thing... a freshly cleared 909 pattern will still have random external intrument sequences that will be sent out the MIDI output having the unintended consequence of triggering gear down the line. You will need to clear the external instrument part of the pattern... Ask if you get stuck with this...

Thanks, and thanks for the link. Most like wont do it; good to know though. I just need a single Thru.

[nutjob]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Thanks, and thanks for the link. Most like wont do it; good to know though. I just need a single Thru.

Was just thinking of your MPC 60 - doesn't that have MIDI outputs galore? They're gonna give you tighter response than the 909's "soft" thru.... Not sure about sync options on the 60... my mpc2000xl can output sync on either or both MIDI outs.
A MIDI splitter might be another option though probably only worth worrying about if you notice problems.

I've not bothered with the output mod on my 909 either - I mention it mostly because x0x trivia keeps me awake at work

[Muser]

For maximum timing of Midi clock, It's a good idea to have as few thru's for anything which carries your clock as possible. so a dedicated and fast a mutliway thru distributor as possible is a good idea.

I wouldn't try to get fancy by trying to do everything with Midi.
The clock is vital. if you try to chain off a clock via the thrus of other units it's not a good plan.

I believe the MPC only will send out clock on one output. try not to have anything but clock coming from there and if you need subsequent distribution I'd look for the fastest and most reliable thru box you can find.

philip rees and midi solutions come to mind but philip rees have packed up their midi stall. if you have five units you want to clock a 1 to 5 thru might be best being fed from the output one of the MPC. that should prove to be the overall tightest lock.

Midi clock sends a tempo message every 24ppqn parts per quarter note resolution. 4 times per bar at the MPCs 96ppq. you might be able to offset the timing of the master MPC by having one clear bar and then maybe looking at the SMPTE start time but I'm not certain about that.

EDIT: so I believe, what is going on with the MPCs Midi clock resolution is that, for everytime a Clock message is sent,
the MPC has completed 96ticks.

SMPTE is 30fps frames per second etc. it doesn't easily translate to ppqn which is dependent on the Tempo. but you hopefully won't have to worry about any of that.

other than being determined to keep a clean Midi Clock channel path, everything else should be ok. if you want to start sending midi notes into some other unit as well as Midi Clock then that is going to dirty up the MPCs outputting Midi Clock feed Midi connection.

If you clock the MPC off something else, it might alter or stop the MPCs swing.
I don't know, but that is worth testing for. using high MPC swing values should help see if that's true.

[fooddude]

Thanks for the info and good to know. Yes, the 60 has 4 outs. I don't have much gear to clock, so I am not too worried. Probably just the 909. Everything else, 3 synths and that is all, sequenced to the mpc60. No worries.. But I might slave my 505 and/or RZ-1 from time to time.

On another note: I started to panic and have not solved this issues yet. (not MPC60 related). Story short, I am a n0000b, i've done research though on how to hook things up and how midi works, the basics. Anyways, I finally got a big lot of midi cables from ebay. My first cables and my first experimentation hooking things up. So...I first test 2 peices of gear, my 909 as master clock and 505 as slave. I make a simple 1 inst kick beat with the 909, and a single inst snare beat with the 505; just to see how all this simple midi clocking works. Turned on midi on both machines, turned off omni on the slave, same receive and transmit channels, and plugged in. 909 hits the kick properly and so does the 505 (BEFORE plugged in). But once I plug in the midi on the 505, it starts playing an outlandish pattern I have never programmed inside it before, when I start up the master 909. It sounds like a giant crappy pattern with every instrument all on a weird beat not related to each other. But, they are both synced and timed correctly. I start freaking out and scratching my head and trying to figure it out for an hour or 4. I tried setting all the channels to the respective ones, and also all diff omni on/off combos and triple checked midi was on, same channel, omni was set right, restarted machines a lot, etc, etc.... I then switched it around, set the settings and made the 505 the master and 909 the slave, and it was perfectly fine; 909 playing the kick and 505 playing the snare; and NOT some pattern that sounds like it came from hell and back. I then tried reversing it once again as 909 master and 505 as slave and the same problem - 909 plays fine the intended kick only beat, but the 505 starts playing a pattern I never wrote before inside it...?!?! I unplug the midi from the 505, hit play, and it's fine - plays only a snare drum pattern...plugged in the midi cable again, and same problem - starts playing an unknown pattern I never programmed in it before, that sounds literally like hell... of course, I start freaking out because 1. I am worried my 909 I just got might be busted and 2. I have no idea what I am really doing since this is my first set of midi cable... ...2 hours later going back and forth trying to find the problem, I tried restarting the 505 again, since the play button started not working, and then, it went poop on me. It doesn't turn on anymore. I think it might be the little power jack in the back, because as I wiggle it I can hear the static/crunch/crackly (kinda like a crackly pot; but quickly turns off and on as I wiggle it)... status, the 505 still doesn't turn on. I can wiggle the plug, then the little red led (the only led on it next to the start/stop button) flickers as I wiggle the little 9v plug inside its' jack..

...what is the problem I am having? Is it the 505? ..the 505's power source jack? Is this is what is causing a weird midi sync problem that makes it play a sh*tty pattern that sounds like a train wreck with every instrument playing off beat like hell.

..I know I can't be that r3tarded...because later on giving up trying to sync the 909 and 505 (which should be EASY as cake), I successfully midi'd and synced my novation bass station, mirage and mpc 60 to each other in seconds, without any hitches at all and started jamming and having fun. At least that relieved some of the frustration form the 909 & 505.. I'm about to heel stomp that damn 505...lol.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by nutjob

The MIDI out also acts as a thru.



edit: oh another thing... a freshly cleared 909 pattern will still have random external intrument sequences that will be sent out the MIDI output having the unintended consequence of triggering gear down the line. You will need to clear the external instrument part of the pattern... Ask if you get stuck with this...

..or is this my problem?? Sounds like it..
..even then, my 505 still doesn't turn on anymore, great timing, lol ..it does sometimes when I wiggle it, then turns off again if I move it..and turns off and on again..bleh :/. .. Had to start breaking the same exact time i got my 909 and first midi cables, to add to the confusion

[nutjob]

Originally Posted by fooddude

..or is this my problem?? Sounds like it..

yep. i'll explain how to clear the external instrument pattern data in another post after this.

Originally Posted by fooddude

..even then, my 505 still doesn't turn on anymore, great timing, lol

try another 9v power supply if you've got one (needs to be negative tip)

its more likely to be the solder joints on the 505's power connector though... you can easily fix this with a soldering iron... do you have a friend who knows how to use one?

[nutjob]

Clearing the external instrument sequence component of your drum pattern:

1. You want the sequencer to not be playing - so press stop if its running.

2. You need to be in pattern mode.
This is done by selecting one of the pattern banks that are labelled [1] [2] & [3] under the heading of Pattern Play.

3. hold shift and press the button labelled Ext Inst

4. Just as you would clear a pattern normally - Hold down the button labelled Clear and select which pattern to clear.

5. return to normal mode by pressing shift and Ext Inst again... or by reselecting the pattern bank [1] [2] or [3] next to the Ext Inst key.

Hope this makes sense

[Muser]

It's always good to have a little cheap multi meter. one that can test that a circuit is being completed. text you midi cables and try to have some kind of colored tape scheme which will indicate if the Midi cable has

1: 3 pins connected
2: 5 pins connected
3: the metal midi plug case connected.

number 3 is not a good idea so I have heard.

number 5 is sometimes a problem or sometimes better for some reason.
it depends on what a specific manufacturer used those extra 2 pins for.
but it can cause ground hum.

number 1 is often best
I have had a case I remember on an old yamaha RM50 where I had to disconnect even the ground on the a midi 3 pin config. anyhow, the colored tape just acts as an external reminder.

Also, if ever you look inside these units and you have a digital camera. take a few good pictures. and check a few connections with a cheap meter. one that goes beep on a circuit completion.

[fooddude]

Thx for the help/tip on ext inst clearing, I googled it last night and did it...easy, just clear it out the same way, except in ext inst mode..got it

..now I must try bringing my 505 back to life. Never soldered circuit boards nor used those little vacuum irons.. but I used to work on cars a lot as a hobby and used normal bigger soldering irons for normal wires and cables hundreds of times for car electronics before... so hopefully this kinds of electronics wont be too hard for me to catch on.

Edit: Took apart the 505, look under the circuit board and under the power jack/plug circuit point, and voila...one of the solder joints is cracked and loose. Thanks. I read this is just one of the few common occurrences in old vintage machines, cracked/broken power jack joints, crackly pots, etc.

It fun being a n00b! Learning the ropes and how to revitalize old crap drum machines, EXCITING! :D

Edit: More awesomeness! Took apart my RZ-1 since I figured it might have the same "broken solder joint" issue, but on the stereo outputs instead cutting off/on and crackling when I wiggle it. Looked at the board where the jacks were, and who woulda thought, 2 cracked solder joints. Sucked the old out, soldered new ones in, remelted the fine ones just to make sure, and it is working like new again ...solid output connectivity and no more crackles or need to wiggle.

..then I went even further and worked on my 909, removing permanent marker pen stain hue remnants from the past owner (actually a signature for the last owner from some famous guy).. took me 3 hours so far and counting. almost done though. Tried everything, all the sharpie removing techniques (magic eraser, wd40, hairspray, alcohol, dry erase marker all types of cleaners, wax, polishing compound; none of them worked); gave up and went for the tried and true wet sand with high grit sandpaper and now I am finally actually seeing results (note, I didnt say easy). Had to sand off the 909 and rhythm composer logos (they were already scratched up before I got her); figured I'd take it completely off since it looks uglier with scratches and faded/damaged letters. Funny thing is, the logo came off 100x easier than the sharpier stains. I guess thats what happens to a 20 year old sharpie mark that's set in, on a 20 year old drum machine's paint. I've taken off sharpie marks on things in the past, never been this hard though. Planning to hit a vinyl sticker store and have the logos cut out and i'll put em back on the 909. Should look much better than scratched/faded original logos with blue sharpie hue all over the place

[Muser]

result!! thumbsup

[mutilatedlip]

There's some great advice in this thread from Nutjob and Muser - thanks very much.

I just had the same question, and came straight to GS as always - hey presto, a thread ready made with everything I need.

[giorgio]

pics of the badgeless 909

[RaboonTheBaboon]

Using my mad sleuthing...

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2011...nd-tr-909.html

[fooddude]

lol.... i think im gonna delete my listing and keep her