Login / Register
 
Installing Compact Flash SCSI to IDE CF in Akai S6000 like internal hard disk HD
New Reply
Subscribe
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#1
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
Installing Compact Flash SCSI to IDE CF in Akai S6000 like internal hard disk HD

For anyone interested, here is a method for installing an IDE Compact Flash CF drive in an Akai S6000 instead of an internal SCSI or IDE hard disk.

You need a SCSI to IDE converter and an 50-pin SCSI internal cable. This SCSI-IDE converter requires power and will have either a "floppy drive" power connector or "4-pin male molex" power connector. They are on ebay and for sale but the price varies. Occasionally they will be about $50 but those deals are not always there and otherwise it could be $100 - $150. I picked up a Yamaha V769970 scsi-ide converter which has a "floppy drive style" power connector, a 50-pin male SCSI connector, and a "Female 3.5" 40 pin IDE connector" for about $50. A jumper has to be put on one of the "SCSI ID" pins, and a jumper also has to be put on SCSI termination pins, assuming this is your only SCSI device, which I'd recommend to minimize possible headaches. (There is an IDE port on the Akai S6000 motherboard, but it doesn't function so ignore it).

Next is the Compact Flash card to IDE CF card reader (look for 3.5" full size IDE instead of 2.5" laptop size IDE connector on this card).

The compact flash card - I heard 16gb definitely works and am waiting on that card. Right now testing with 256 MB card and works immediately. Tried Akai S6000 "quick format" which seemed to work, but not sure if it was even necessary. Had tried "full format" earlier and got "SCSI error" message- luckily so far this has not seemed to matter. Without SCSI termination jumper active, Akai S6000 showed "no disk" under utilities, and "searching for disks" went on for a while during boot up sequence. With proper SCSI termination activated, CF "hard disk" icon shows up right away.

The Compact Flash to IDE card reader board is commonly available. The ones I've seen require power from a floppy connector. It makes sense to use a special male-female 3.5" IDE cable with it if you are trying to install this card reader on a hardware bracket to fit this stuff such that it will easily sit in the front slot of the Akai S6000 and make the card easily removable.

After fussing with a few of these reader boards, and realizing the special IDE cable was necessary, and in particular starting to wonder how to find a cable to provide floppy connector power to this CF IDE reader, I decided to email "SCSI For Samplers" to try to find this obscure power cable.

There is a free 4-pin power supply connection on the Akai S6000 power supply (circuit board id = "P724"), just next to where the floppy drive power cable is connected. I could not, after much searching, determine what kind of connector might fit on this 4-pin connector, since it is not full size molex, etc. (If you can figure out what connector this is, and it seems rather standard, please tell me as I was hypnotized by the dilemma and now after having totally given up, just curious.) It seemed you may have to solder the cable yourself if you could figure out the connector. The SCSI for Samplers fellow provided a power cable that plugged into the end of the existing floppy drive power cable that you need to unplug from the included floppy drive, then this cable has 2 floppy power connectors on it in a row to power the 2 devices, SCSI to IDE converter, and CF to IDE board.

So after seeing all the details involved, I went to "SCSI for Samplers" who sold me the special power cable, and a CF to IDE board mounted in a 3.5" bay bracket with LED indicator, as well as the male-female 3.5" style IDE cable.

Installing this stuff was only mildly delicate, not too scary.

To install the SCSI data cable, the midi ports had to be unscrewed (I would not unplug them just try to move them around while still plugged in). Move the midi ports out of the way, remember exactly how they were originally oriented, and carefully install the SCSI cable with fingers, then thread it through the tall hole that is toward the floppy disk.

There is a 3.5" drive bay blank plastic placeholder in the front panel of the S6000. This is not "clipped in", it is "adhesive taped or mildly glued" in. It seems that you can just push it out (from the outside --> in) with some force without taking off the front panel. There are 6 screws total on top and bottom of the front panel edges. If you choose to take the front panel off, you can and it will sort of just come right off with no wires stuck to it.

The 3.5" CF drive bay assembly I got is built with some hot-glue and nuts and bolts but seems just fine. It only actually can mount in the Akai S6000 with 1 screw, but that screw is positioned perfectly so it does mount flush to the front panel which is nice.

The floppy drive just sits in there with no power, can always use it later in an emergency.

The sampler seems to boot up quick and is very quiet with fan speed set on low. Very happy with the setup though it required some number of parts and thought in planning out the procedure.

Here are a few links to such discussions:

http://www.akaipro.com/contentmgr/sh...p/id/1132/tt/5

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...t-2351648.html

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...7&postcount=13

http://hornbake.com/2008/09/akai-s5000/
#2
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #2
Gear nut
 
afterjohn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 136

afterjohn is offline
What was the total cost and labor hours for this project? I'm definitely interested in doin' this.
__________________
redtuxedo.com
milkmoneyconsulting.com
mindexpansiontechnology.com
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#3
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
Hi,

Lets see:


$36 = 3.5" Drive bay with CF IDE board, male - female IDE cable, special power cable. These from SCSI for Samplers.

$55 = SCSI to IDE converter

$6 = 50 pin standard internal SCSI cable

$45 = 16 gb Compact Flash card, I think 200x speed should be fine, but opted for 400x just in case

total about $140 (shipping included)

[Ended up spending a few extra $ on random parts to try out, like CF to 2.5" IDE reader, and 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter requiring power, = but those are now extra parts not currently used, call it research and development.]

Following these instructions and assuming you have all the parts in front of you maybe 1.5 - 2.5 hours? worth it considering how hard disk noise heat and failure can be so annoying.

Also part of the idea is you could plug the CF card into a reader in your PC as a supplement to the usb connection (which although not super reliable in my experience is still most useful).
#4
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
tvsky's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,868

tvsky is offline
where do you get the ide-scsi converter for 50$ from ?
#5
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #5
Gear Head
 
Barcode's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 43

Barcode is offline
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#6
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
I got the SCSI IDE converter on ebay.

Tried getting it from "CTH online shop" but they refunded my $ because the item was not actually in stock though they say it is on the website.
#7
10th November 2010
Old 10th November 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
tvsky's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,868

tvsky is offline
was ebay new are any left or does anyone have a link to one on ebay that is available ?
#8
8th February 2011
Old 8th February 2011
  #8
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Poland
Posts: 107

KovalStudios is offline
i have 16gb pretec card
and acard scsi to ide converter
inside s5000

i have little problem with formating cf
it takes so much time
no matter quick or fast

anyone have similar experience?
__________________
clavias, rolands, korgs, yamahas, waldorfs, lexicons, too much gear
#9
24th March 2011
Old 24th March 2011
  #9
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
This is OT but..............

I just got a S6000 delivered from the USA to Australia. I go to change the power supply to 240V and I can't find any switch or jumpers.

This couldn't be auto sensing power supply, way back in the 90's, could it?

__________________

#10
24th March 2011
Old 24th March 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrumdrumdrum View Post
This is OT but..............

I just got a S6000 delivered from the USA to Australia. I go to change the power supply to 240V and I can't find any switch or jumpers.

This couldn't be auto sensing power supply, way back in the 90's, could it?

it (could) be or have some mechanism to do it.

the Kurzweil K2500R used to be able to changed quite easily.
the Euro connector had some method of twisting the fuse holder round or something. and then you put in a different fuse rating too.

I can't exactly remember how you did it on the Kurzweil but it was close to that.
so maybe look for info on how the K2500R recommended doing that.
__________________
.
contrarianism is creativity for the unimaginative
#11
24th March 2011
Old 24th March 2011
  #11
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
The Kurzweil had jumpers but I'm talk n bout the Akai S-6000

Beautiful.......... lol
#12
26th March 2011
Old 26th March 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrumdrumdrum View Post
The Kurzweil had jumpers but I'm talk n bout the Akai S-6000

Beautiful.......... lol
here..

Let me google that for you
#13
26th March 2011
Old 26th March 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
How'd you go Muser, because after 3 days of goggling (checking every site down to the bottom of the third page) I have found Nada!?
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#14
26th March 2011
Old 26th March 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
Let me google that for you, ha never seen that. I agree it isn't always easy to find the info. Anyway this is from the manual 4th link down in those search results:


Power Requirements : 100 - 240 V AC 50/60 Hz 60 W,
without option 35W - S6000/28W - S5000



I dare not interpret that requirement since I don't want to blow up your sampler, but it sounds like you're ok just plugging it in (?). Good to be cautious though. Maybe you can just contact Akai and ask them, they'd know! Or JD from SCSI for Samplers ..
#15
26th March 2011
Old 26th March 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrumdrumdrum View Post
How'd you go Muser, because after 3 days of goggling (checking every site down to the bottom of the third page) I have found Nada!?
well it looks like the power requirements are in the manual in this case.

like andrew said.

Power Requirements : 100 - 240 V AC 50/60 Hz 60 W,
without option 35W - S6000/28W - S5000

that looks as though it should indicate an intelligent power management.
but it's one of those moments where ones sphincter would inevitably tighten.

you can optimize google searches by putting 2 words in between ""

I suppose if it had said only 240 V AC you would know it was only a country specific power system, I guess.
though you never know if those specs also include some other change you need to make.
the S6K looks as though the power system has a distribution board which the 5K (doesn't) have.
so those might be different. some guy on an ebay listing for a S6K PSU board seemed to mention that.

but as I said, from my memory when I got a K2500R from abroad all I remember having to do was switch round the fuse on the external side of the power input module. and change the fuse rating.

the K2000 I think was different, you had to switch round the internal connectors to the right output section.

but that was a while ago, so I'm not sure if I can fully remember.
also, I didn't know if a S6000 had those kinds of external connectors..
as it looks, they don't have them, but it looks like the power system has some intelligence.

but, it's always a little scary when you have to try it.

like to know if it's true anyhow.
#16
27th March 2011
Old 27th March 2011
  #16
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
Well the worst thing that will happen is a blown fuse....I hope!?

There is a screw driver pot on the power PCB. I will investigate this a little closer first.

Thanks Muser
#17
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
maybe put a 3 amp fuse in the plug before trying.

a 5 amp is sufficient for most musical equipment anyway.
#18
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
It has a 3A fuse in already. My experience tells me to half the amount of Amps when you double the amount of Voltage.

1.5A should do the job............
#19
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
at 240 volt 1.5 should be a 360watt pull. but there is sometimes a time delay, depending on the fuse type.

get a few in case they blow because of any surge filling up the caps.

the internal PSU often has a fuse too. but those are different so getting a bunch of those is useful too.
they are the ceramic ones which have quartz crystals inside so that when they blow a thin film of metal
can't reform to make the connection. I think those are quick blow, but I can't remember.

actually I just checked. I cracked a 13A mains fuse.. they also are ceramic with quartz crystals.

The (internal) fuses on my Akai Z8 are T 2.5A 240 volt. so it might be that the internal PSU fuse in your S6K
is T 2.5A 110 Volt. 240 Volt might make a 110 Volt blow. not sure.

in any case you should check that. The T rating means, time delay. I'm not sure if a mains fuse is fast blow or slow blow.
I would suspect that a T rating on the internal means it's faster blow than a none T rated fuse.
EDIT:
actually, I mean (T = slower time delayed blow).

I think there were 3 types of time delay ratings.. something like TT means twice as short or twice as long.
something like that anyhow.

also internal PSU fuses are smaller.
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#20
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
I contacted Akai Pro tech support with your question, according to their tech support email form, they may get back to me in a day or so. If I get any useful info I'll let you know.
#21
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #21
Gear interested
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2

asci is offline
Nicely executed andrewsc...

Out of interest, could a similar mod be carried out on an s3000xl?
#22
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Dubtek71's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Deep OuterBass
Posts: 2,828

Dubtek71 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by asci View Post
Nicely executed andrewsc...

Out of interest, could a similar mod be carried out on an s3000xl?
Or an S1100?
mp3
#23
29th March 2011
Old 29th March 2011
  #23
mp3
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 997

mp3 is online now
On the original topic, can't the S5k take the CF-IDE adapter directly? I don't see the point of adding the IDE SCSI adapter.
#24
5th April 2011
Old 5th April 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
drumdrumdrumdrum's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 888

drumdrumdrumdrum is offline
Well....It is official. The S-6000 has an intelligent, auto sensing, worldwide power supply. This is now recorded here on GS for everyone's knowledge for as long as the internet exists.

Next step is to install an internal SCSI drive and a compact flash SCSI.

Back to the start of the thread...........
#25
5th April 2011
Old 5th April 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
claps!!!
andrewsc
Thread Starter
#26
5th April 2011
Old 5th April 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 655

Thread Starter
andrewsc is offline
Hi,
Nice to hear your sampler is working after that careful approach to the wall outlet! Enjoy!

With regard to why a scsi-ide adapter is needed.. If there is such a thing as a [ SCSI <--> CF compact flash card reader ], you could just use that, but I have not heard of those, what is common are [IDE <--> CF compact flash card reader]. The S6000 doesn't have a functioning IDE socket on its main board, it does have the SCSI socket.

I can't stand the noise SCSI hard drives tend to emit, which is why I went for the CF card. The S6000 has a small fan that is relatively quiet.

A Z8 does have the IDE socket so there is no need for SCSI parts in that box. A Z8 with CF card would be nice to eliminate drive noise and I don't think a Z8 has any internal fans. IDE CF reader would be faster than a USB drive which you can also attach, but wouldn't match the capacity of a large IDE drive.

If the S3000XL is the same type of SCSI which I believe it is, then I'd think you could take the same approach.


Last edited by andrewsc; 5th April 2011 at 04:39 PM..
#27
5th April 2011
Old 5th April 2011
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Muser's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,632

Muser is offline
yes Andrew, the Z8 has no fan.

you can sometimes pick up MCdisk-2 / spyrus Drives. but don't get the one that is only a reader. generally, they should work. I have a Dual SCSI CF card reader writer. addresses 2 SCSI channels and uses PCMCIA to CF card adapters.

though I have not found this needs to be used with a Z8 and also, I read in the manual that the SCSI on the Z8 is a little dangerous to use in fact. it's mentioned in the manual.

there is a removable slot behind the removable facer on a Z8, so you could put in a CF IDE interface mounted there and have a removable and silent system. it's pretty silent anyhow, if you have the right drive.

also the Z8 has a front mounted USB slot for either USB thumbdrives or USB CD writer readers.
probably any upstream addressable USB unit works in fact.. round the back theres a downstream USB for the computer interfacing.

but, this SCSI internal SCSI to IDE to CF trick, is a useful approach for other SCSI based systems too.. not just an Akai I would think ..
#28
12th May 2012
Old 12th May 2012
  #28
Gear interested
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1

jacobreplica is offline
Hey all!
I copped a Yamaha V769970 and a CF reader for my s6000 (OS v2.14) but when I turn it on with the IDE bridge connected, it blocks the startup with:
"FATAL EXCEPTION
divide error
ID:0
CS:0048
ES:0058
EAX:000000DA
ECX:00065EC0
ESI:00065DD8
EBP:00065D96
EIP:0001B5F0
DS:0058
FS:0058
EBX:00060000
EDX:00000000
EDI:00065DB0
ESP:00065DB0"

Any idea what might be causing this to happen?
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
TheSlot / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
Jay- / Electronic Music Instruments & Electronic Music Production
1
Killah_Trakz / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
16
AMBITION / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
2
chambinator / Music Computers
0

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.