1st set-up help: DRM-1 as my only drum synth? CS10 or SH-09 as my only Mono-synth?

[fooddude]

I am pretty new to all this music production and hardware, but have been researching for a few months, and hardware is the way I want to go. I have been djing for about 10 years and the bug finally bit me to want to make tunes.

Music I want to make: Deep/classic east coast NY Underground/Detroit type house, uptempo/midtempo/downtempo hip hop type beats/breaks, deep slow motion disco, re-edit souls/funk/disco, funky stuff, jazzy stuff, funky folk, bossa/samba sounds, world groove, global soul, afrobeat and latin influences, etc...but primarily deep house!


So far I only have:
-MPC 60 (as my main sampler & sequencer)
-Mirage Ensoniq (as a keys controller, instrument & 8 bit sampler)
-Casio RZ-1 (bought cheap, for fun & still usable)
-Roland TR-505 (my first drum machine bought about 2 months ago, mainly for fun)
-Mackie 1604 VLZ pro mixer
-Dj set-up with 10,000+ old records collected over the years.

And for sure I am getting with my next paychecks in a week or two:
-Roland Juno 60 (as my only/main poly)
-A mono synth: Either a Yamaha CS10 or Roland SH-09 (as my only/main mono)
-Kenton boxes for the 2 synths
-And some kind of decent analog drum machine/synth as my main/only "go-to" box for kicks, snares, hats, and everything I can muster out of it.

My main/only drums:

Budget = $600'ish

I am kinda lost in this department, too many options. Of course, like a lot of people, I too want an 808 and 909, especially since I am making classic/deep house. But that is a small fortune for the pair, which I probably never going to have that kind of money for. Also, my main drums doesn't need to sound exactly like a 909 808, just saying it would be nice to be able to come close to them while still sounding and capable of making diff sounds those TR classics can't make.

So, I was thinking PCM based TR-707/727 pair. Pretty limited in features, but classics and sound good and I love the TR sequencer.

Other choice is an MFB-522, pretty close to 808 sounds. And, a matching 503, but I don't read any good reviews on the 503 and read it has a lot of noise, not really a 909 kick, but more similar to a 909 kick than an 808 in my ears..but still doesn't sound like a 909. I guess it's its own machine.

Then I notice there are lots of DRM1 mkII/mkIII samples on youtube whenever I surf for other drum machine demos. It sounds really good and functional and then started researching on the DRM on here. And, all I read is praise for them. If I get a DRM1, I plan to seq it with my mpc60...and maybe even a Kick Lancet in the future/next year if I need better kicks or try to replicate 808/909 kicks.

Obviously, the DRM-1 is built like a true studio piece as compared to the little MFB boxes, but I know it's all about the sound, and the MFB 5xx are sounding nice to me for the stuff I want to be making.

These 3 options are my current thought on deciding which to get in the next week or so (DRM-1 vs. pair of MFB-5xx's vs pair of TR7x7's)... Don't know of any other affordable analog drums worth considering as my only, main drum machine, besides the Jomox & machinedrum (which I decided I don't want), so any other recommendations or opinions welcome.

...which would you pick? I know, very different machines as one is PCM and the others analog with mass tunability.



Now lastly..

My main/only Mono-synth:

Budget = $500-600ish

I really am leaning towards a CS-10 since it sounds so diff than the Juno 60 and also sounds so jazzy & funky for leads and bass playing. But, how is the SH-09 on airy type of leads, jazzy funk style?

From the reviews I've read and also the demos, it's certain that the SH-09 kills it for a bass beast and the CS10 for groovy leads and bass. But, what do you think is a better accompaniment instrument/synth to a Juno 60 for a larger range of diff/diverse sounds?

I am a little leary on getting an sh09 as it might sound too similar & have too similar features to the Juno 60 (I am a n00b, so I'm really not certain as I have not played with any of these 3 synths). But, for sure it'll be good on bass, not too sure on neat sounding leads.

And for the CS10, for sure it'll most likely satisfy me with jazzy leads, but is it good for thick, rich, in your face, evil bass too, when ever I have a want for that type of sound? In other words, is the CS10 at least decently FAT?

My other options were the SH-101, SH-2 (but those 2 are def out of the equation because of price) and a Novation Bass station (out of the picture too as I decided I'd rather want a vintage CS or SH since they sound a bit warmer, older and phatter)

Opinions and insight? Which would you pick for your only mono in this/my type of set-up?



[sorry if this is a double post, I had 2 other posts with similar topics but thought it was better to merge them in one and describe what I am after, the kind of music I want to produce, building my first set-up and also planned/current related equipment set-up lists]

Thanks
E

[fooddude]

Bumpy.... opinions?

I am leaning towards the Yamaha CS-10 & pair of MFB's (522 + 503) as my final decision.

Will I be happy and satisfied? Opinions and insight of my small set-up?

[Xero]

doesn't sound bad, i have a juno 60 and a sh-2/sh-101/cs-10...although i don't think an sh-101 would be out of range, if you are patient enough. Sh-101 is one of my favorite monos, but i like the cs-10 a lot too.

[Acid Hazard]

Waldorf Pulse?

[golden beers]

if you got a powerful synth, you wouldn't need the mono or the drum machine.

but you would have to learn how to use the synth. deeply. and understand synthesis.

instead of buying a juno, an sh09 and an analogue drum machine, you could for example, buy a prophet5. which would do a fantastic job of bass strings/pads and drum hits (you would sample the drum hits). think about it.

[duggabax]

Drum machines: you didn't mention the Jomox Xbase 09. It's got 909 style analog kick and snare, then hihats, cymbal, ride, rimshot, and claps samples. They can be had for around 600. I wouldn't pay any more than that though. Jomox is really known for its kick drums.

I too would steer you away from the BassStation as your sole monosynth. A vintage VCO mono with a Kenton box for midi control would be awesome-ness.

[Diantre]

Well for the drums...You already have a MPC60. Load up some nice samples, what else could you want?

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by duggabax

Drum machines: you didn't mention the Jomox Xbase 09. It's got 909 style analog kick and snare, then hihats, cymbal, ride, rimshot, and claps samples. They can be had for around 600. I wouldn't pay any more than that though. Jomox is really known for its kick drums.

I too would steer you away from the BassStation as your sole monosynth. A vintage VCO mono with a Kenton box for midi control would be awesome-ness.

Can the SH-09 get groovy/funky for leads? Can the CS10 get bass phatness? Which is a better match to the Juno 60? Having a hard time deciding which...gonna pull the trigget once I get paid this friday and/or finally sell my camera lenses, e..

I was thinking of using the BassStation mostly as a convertor for an SH-09 or CS10, not as my only mono; and just having that extra synth as a plus since a Kenton and a BassStation rack cost similar.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by golden beers

if you got a powerful synth, you wouldn't need the mono or the drum machine.

but you would have to learn how to use the synth. deeply. and understand synthesis.

instead of buying a juno, an sh09 and an analogue drum machine, you could for example, buy a prophet5. which would do a fantastic job of bass strings/pads and drum hits (you would sample the drum hits). think about it.

I took an electronic/tape-splice/synthesis/music concrete type class in college, so I kinda get the gist of synthesis, but it was a hard class, and didn't really understand it fully as i never owned my own synth for hands on experience, and I forget it all anyways, lol...wish I had kept the book and remembered stuff.

But, what you're trying to say s that a prophet5 can do all of this and sounds better? ...regardless, a prophet 5 is way out of my budget costing thousands, wheras I can get a vintage yamaha/roland mono, juno and a pair of drums for only 2k.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by Diantre

Well for the drums...You already have a MPC60. Load up some nice samples, what else could you want?

Yeah, I am already going to do this, just to satisfy me in the mean time until I get real analog drums.

Does anyone have recommendations who makes the best samples of the 808, 909 available (store/ebay, the web)? Trying to find the highest quality ones with the most diff edited sounds. Preferably on CD or a bunch of floppies, as I don't have SCSI/ZiP and am not planning to upgrade to that.

Also, looking for the best 707, 727 & Alesis HR-16 sample if anyone knows the best ones out there..

[duggabax]

I've seen some of the old Yamaha CS monos go for pretty cheap...they're a pretty overlooked vintage mono. You can just check eBay to see what these synths go for. Have you looked on Craigslist? If you live in an urban centre there's usually some good stuff.

[fooddude]

Hmmm...I thought of another option today. Instead of searching high and low for a 909 alternative, maybe I will just buy a real deal 909. Can't go wrong with that, lol, great build, step seq layout, great sound.

But that will be a big portion of my moneys and I cannot get a mono anymore...but then again, I might not even need a mono for the music I am making (deep house, up/mid/down tempo hip hop style, jazzy funk stuff. I can always just use the Juno 60 still for bass or leads and overdub it.

With my next paycheck, I am def already getting a Juno.

I will still have around 1600 or so dollars (selling some camera lenses)... so now my choice/decision now is to either get a 909 OR a mono (sh-09 or CS10) + pair of MFB's ...decisions decisions, hrm..

Opinions?

[Serpentine]

I'd go the MFB's and a Mono. As for which mono... that's a tough one.
I've got an SH-2 and a CS-5, and I much prefer the CS-5. Though the SH-2 has a much fatter sound, I find the multimode Yamaha filter very inspiring, and the LFO can go into the FM range.

It's also has a much nicer key action.
I wouldn't say the Yamaha's can do bass as good as the SH-2/09, but it's certainly not lacking either.

Expect a PM from me soon..

[fooddude]

I'm sure the sh-09 is phatter than the 101, but is the CS10 phatter than an SH-101? I don't want an sh-101, just wondering. I prefer the 70s tones of the vintage CS and SH more than the 101.

[Serpentine]

I have a 101 as well, it's definitely more in your face than the CS-5. I'm unsure about the CS-10.
It's all subjective, but I find the Yamaha to have a more 'vintage' sound than the Rolands, it's a little less precise and clinical sounding.

I PM'ed you

[golden beers]

i set up a poll about SH09 vs 101 a while back.... where is it?

oh here..

SH101 vs SH09

regards to the prophet5 solution..

no it can't do a juno like a juno. and it can't do a 909 like a 909.
but it can sound better than both in it's own way.

i mentioned the PRO5 because its a poly that does a great job of being a 'mono' for base lines. and it also has the modulation and envelopes that allow you to crate very good drum sounds.

there are more i'm sure. i'm guessing the OB8 would also do a sterling job of drums. modern synths, i dunno, possibly the andy.

but in any case, yea it sounds like you need something simple and cheap. so SH09 would be perfect. you can also get some good drum sounds out of that, but it wont do snares or the more complex timbres without clever layering and processing.

to be honest i think you would be better off with sampled drum sounds. rather than buying a 909 or jomox. i mean you could then put your drum budget towards your synth budget. and get a better synth (PRO1?).... or monitors or AD or what have you.

i sold my last remaining drum machine in 2009 and i'm very happy. i have drums coming out of my.. errr... pants?

a pro5-rev2- sound here

[fooddude]

Well, looks like I'm picking up my Juno 60 tomorrow (sold a camera lens to fund it), then when I get paid this Friday, I just confirmed wiring my payment for my CS10 from modeless factory... My first synths ever, I can't wait ..exciting and it should be a life changing and learning experience! :D

...also selling an additional camera lens and downgrading my camera body for more cash, I should have roughly 1200-1600 left over for analog drums...I just gotta decide on which, hmmm.. Splurge and spend it all on a 909 (if I can actually find a midi syncable one for cheap).. Or a mfb522 + mfb 503 or a vermona kick lancet... My instincts are telling me "buy right, buy once" (attitude I have on photography gear too) and going for a 909, since it's so hard to replicate hat nice kick and big snares. .. But I still need a bit of cash still for inst, midi cables, small FW interface and stuff and other smaller things to get my set up working, so I think I will just go the cheaper MFB-522 first...

..Now I am thinking, which to get to go along with the 522 (a certain buy), MFB-503 or Vermona Kick Lancet? I am looking for a more 909 dirty'ish thud kick. The 503 has it's own kick sound, in b/n a boom and a thud, i don't think it'll be capable of something really close to a 909, it sounds like a 808 boom but a lot tighter, if that made sense. I don't know how good the toms are on it, not many demos up. As for the Kick Lancet, there is only 1 good vid, showing off its' thuddy kick, similar to the 909, but a bit cleaner bassier, but still good and not as "nu school" sounding as the drm1. The thing I like about the 503 is the big snare. But, is it me, or does the 522's snare sound almost the same as the 503 snare? ...that's why I am just thinking of getting a Kick Lancet to match the 522, since if the snares on both the 522 and 503 sound the same, and the 503 is really only a 3 instrument drum machine (kick/snare/tom, rest is samples) so this really means to me buying a 503 is getting a kick not as good as the kick lancet with a snare similar to my already owned 522 & toms, or just getting a one instrument kick lancet which will almost certainly be better at kicks than the 503.. I think it'd be a better bet to get the Kick Lancet for a bigger variety of kicks, and I think it even sounds nicer than the 503's kick and might even be adjustable close to a 909, never know though as there is only one decent demo up.... what do you think?

If you had a choice between a 503 or kick lancet to match/accompany a 522, which would you get?

[thefunnel]

Similar dilemma here re: drum machines

I've been eying the DRM1 for almost a year at this point. More recently, I've checked into the MFB machines. The 503 isn't really even on my radar, but the 522 looks really interesting, and very cost effective. Fun little machine with a sequencer to boot. Unfortunately, it does not look like it has a MIDI out to use the sequencer with anything else.

I'm tempted to just save the money though, and continue to make my drums ITB with a combo of the DMD samples (which are ****ing awesome and the best $80 I've ever spent on a sample pack), and my Future Retro XS which does a great job for particular percussion sounds.

I really want an analog drum machine with fully adjustable parameters AND a sequencer. The DRM1 tickles all the right spots, except the lack of sequencer. Looking for a "jambox" you know? Programming drums in Ableton does the job, and I can make them sound great, but I kinda want something more for fun and usable in a live situation. The DRM1 lacks that usability. If it had a step sequencer, I would buy it in a heartbeat, and probably pay $1000 for it. Major oversight IMO, although I can see why they did it in today's world of software sequencing. The MFB-522 being so cheap and having essentially everything I want in a jambox makes the most sense, so I'll probably pick one up with a x0xb0x in the next few months.

And yes, Jomox sounds good, but I read too many OS and bug horror stories to bother.

[The Hamburglar]

The DRM-1 + MPC (2500 in my case) is a dream electronic drum duo. The DRM-1 sounds excellent and is perfect for making the exact kit needed for a particular track; you honestly can't pretend samples can replace an analog drum machine if you've never used one. I personally thought the Vermona sounded loads better than the Jomox but that's a personal thing I guess.

I had to sell it for financial reasons but it's definitely something I'll get back when I've got better financial footing.

[J Gabriel]

awesome man theres no way you could be disspointed with the kit youve decided upon ! the juno 60 + cs 10 is my current setup and its a great match

in terms of the 909 (which you can actually use to sequence the juno i believe?!) keep in mind that there's tons of processing going on in most modern day contexts so i wouldnt expect it to be the end-all for huge in your face drums. though i'd love one for the groove and raw analog power !

[fooddude]

...Yes, I am excited ))))

...quite of a headache though on the drum decision. THe more I hear the DRM1 demos, the more I don't like it's kick. Do you think the Kick Lancet's kick is similar? If so, I will probably scratch that off my list and go for a 503. If not, I am still considering the Kick Lancet.

Hmmmm... Vermona Kick Lancet VS. MFB-503...

[thefunnel]

Originally Posted by fooddude

...Yes, I am excited ))))

...quite of a headache though on the drum decision. THe more I hear the DRM1 demos, the more I don't like it's kick. Do you think the Kick Lancet's kick is similar? If so, I will probably scratch that off my list and go for a 503. If not, I am still considering the Kick Lancet.

Hmmmm... Vermona Kick Lancet VS. MFB-503...

Don't quote me on this, but I have heard from a couple people on different forums that the Kick Lancet is just the DRM1's kick engine in its own box. Seems a bit expensive for just the kick, if there are no additional adjustable parameters at the very least.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by thefunnel

Don't quote me on this, but I have heard from a couple people on different forums that the Kick Lancet is just the DRM1's kick engine in its own box. Seems a bit expensive for just the kick, if there are no additional adjustable parameters at the very least.

That's what I was kinda thinking and scared of, but unsure about...but it does have a few extra adj (2 diff FM tunings and "Balls" whatever that is)/// I might skip the idea of the Kick Lancet then, unless I hear otherwise. Maybe I'll just stick with 909 samples in the mean time. I really want a close analog drum that can do 909 stuff. Or maybe I'll just splurge and get a real 909, lol....but that too deters me as I read many of them cant midi sync (although if I had a 909 I am would plan to sync it to the MPC60 as the main seq and just use the internal 909 seq externally, any way around just using DIN with an MPC60 & 909?)

[Retrofreak]

SH-09 ftw.

[J Gabriel]

id see what you can do with samples in the mp60 for now that sounds like quite a powerful solution. sample some huge eric prydz kick drums and massive snares/hats from michael jackson, i dont think it gets much better than that

from what ive read the 909 can take quite a bit of processing to achieve "that" modern sound you may be looking for. the dry 909 might require cajoling to deliver with the big results you seem to want. it does have the groove factor tho...