Playing Live - Using Logic Instruments Without the Mac?

[Yoozer]

"On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

The only option you have is to run it on a computer like a V-Machine or a Muse Receptor (at least for the Komplete VSTs; I don't think these things run AU plugs) - or to sample each sound you want to take with something like AutoSampler or SampleRobot .

However, since the amount of files you are going to get will take up a lot of space and hardware samplers only have so much internal memory a software sampler is going to do that job better anyway - and since you then already use a computer, why not use it for the plugins, too?

You're better off with a Motif/Fantom/generic workstation for most of your sounds and a capable VA. You'll have to do some programming to get the same sounds (and stuff like Sculpture is probably not going to work out, physical modeling synths date back to Yamaha's VL-technology 1995 and never really got off the ground anymore after that) - but hey, no computer required.

[bpbpbp]

Hey Yoozer, thanks for the response.

I feel a little better about using the mac after your explanation, however I don't think Logic is going to work out live - it doesn't seem to lend itself to changing sounds on the fly very easily. At least with a synth workstation, you can just press a button for your required preset.

Do you know if a midi controller keyboard (I have an edirol pcr-800) can be used in conjunction with some software, to make it easy to select sounds during songs?

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by bpbpbp

I feel a little better about using the mac after your explanation, however I don't think Logic is going to work out live - it doesn't seem to lend itself to changing sounds on the fly very easily.

I must admit that I don't have that much experience with Logic - however, isn't that exactly what Mainstage was invented for?

At least with a synth workstation, you can just press a button for your required preset.

True - and the loading times are very modest. Scarbee Mark 1 takes a while to load up. The alternative is to have lots of plugins loaded but the channels muted so you keep the CPU usage down, but if that's practical...

Do you know if a midi controller keyboard (I have an edirol pcr-800) can be used in conjunction with some software, to make it easy to select sounds during songs?

That should be possible: if you look at the left side you've got that VALUE knob; if you set it to Program Change, turning the knob should result into jumping to the next patch/preset. The most practical thing to do is to line up the presets on beforehand matching the order of each song - so you just have to think in terms of forwards/backwards instead of "OK, first I'm going to need 22, then 94" - but that's what I'd do with any regular synth/workstation, too. The less you have to worry about, the more you can focus on your performance.

Again, workstations have the edge in this case - you could load up an entire multitimbral setup with zones/splits and all really fast, and since they've got pretty big displays you could just choose between a list of song titles (and their matching setups). On the other hand, you can emulate this in Logic by creating projects with all the instruments lined up and set up properly in advance - just no notes. Then all you have to do is pick the right project file, open it, wait for the softsynths to load, and you're done.

Stability is not that much of a hassle anymore; loading speed for big sample libraries and setups is.

Sorry for the somewhat snarky quote - but I was amused at what looked much like "how can I run stuff on my computer without my computer". It means using a computer anyway, or finding substitutes.

Besides strings and drums, what more sounds do you need? Anything you feel only your plugins can do?

[analogaddict]

I have a Receptor and a V-Machine, and I've been gigging with my Macbook. They all have their ups and downs - this is how I use(d) them;

1. V-machine. One plug at a time, it doesn't always respond to program changes the way you may want it to. It's the cheapest and easiest way to access some plugs but at the same time it's very limited. I use VB3 and OP-X (a special scaled down version), one plug at a time. It does what it does very well. I wouldn't want to use big sample libraries in it.
2. Receptor. Mine is a 5-year-old rev. A and it's getting a bit long in the tooth. I use it a lot, but I'm planning an upgrade to get more raw computing power. You can use 'snapshots' to load all the plugs you need (up to 16, but each plug-in can respond to 16 channels), it responds immediately to program changes and cc:s. IMHO it's the ultimate solution for playing soft synths live. The downside is that you can't install AU plugs and you (usually) need the 'Receptorized' versions of the plug-ins. Just make sure the synths you need (or equivalents) are compatible and you'll be fine. It works over a network cable (if you want to use it to extend your laptop performance), over regular midi and usb midi. I have 4 USB ports on the rear (the new ones have 5), all of which can be used for usbmidi. It's very integrated, well thought through and highly stable, the only things I'd really like to see is more outputs, freely assignable, and a more advanced midi matrix. I use a Marian Adcon to get 8 channels over ADAT, and with my PC3 i can handle all my midi needs.
3. Macbook. I guess a laptop is the most popular soultion - I've been using my Macbook a lot. I don't like PC:s, I'm totally incompetent with them and usually end up killing them. The only thing that really worries me with laptops is the number of parts and cables - you have the laptop itself which may be difficult to find a place for, you need a soundcard and probably an external HD. I use FW HD and interface, which means a total of 1 Macbook, 1 HD, 1 sound card, 3 adapters, 1 midi or 1 usb cable. And preferably backups of cables and adapters, meaning a total of 12 pieces to cart, assemble and disassemble. It hasn't happened to me (yet!) but I've seen people short their soundcards with static electricity on stage more than once. The upside is the battery power, as long as you aren't streaming stuff you'll be fine even if the power goes. If I were dead set on gigging with a computer, I'd probably build a 2 u rack with a Mac Mini, a 7'' touchscreen, a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, a FF 400 and your HD of choice, but unless you need the Logic synths you'll probably be better off with a Receptor. Just my .02...

[bpbpbp]

Thanks both, this is really valuable information for me. Yoozer - the quote was perfect, I thought it was funny!

I am a student so the prime factor is £££. I bought a macbook pro unibody second hand and a used edirol controller. I have an apogee duet interface and that is pretty much it.

I will look into the hardware synths but expect they will cost good money that I don't have. Therefore I think I will have to pursue the macbook route, and will check out mainstage.