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| | #1 |
| Gear interested Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thread Starter | I Just bought new equipment for a Huge Project but need HELP?
I recently purchase , SuperNova Novation , Waldorf Micro Q , TI Virus, Digi Design 003 Rack, Logic Pro. Be easy on me im a bit new on this. Got Few questions. How do i record the synths via digi , like i want to record the "audio" to get the best out of them. I know Virus is USB but is there another way to record it and the others? Like record my synths as if they were intrsuments? LET ME HEAR YOUR SUGGESTIONS. And i bought few soundbanks for Waldorf Micro Q and SuperNova Novation. How do i load them in the synths, im not sure how to connect them to my laptop so i can do load the soundbanks and i still need to update theses 2 synths. Just looking for advice hope i was specific enough. I got a huge project im working on. |
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| | #2 |
| Lives for gear |
any particular reason why you got so many digital synths with all the great software ones there are now?
__________________ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Invader! Official Site - http://itsinvader.com Invader!'s Guide to Electro House and Dubstep Production - http://itsinvader.com/guide |
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| | #3 |
| Gear interested Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thread Starter | |
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| | #4 |
| Gear maniac Joined: Feb 2010 Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 181
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In terms of recording the synths, I'd recommend operating the synths via MIDI from Logic and have the audio outputs of the synths going back into Logic, for recording seperately, or as part of a master mixdown.
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| | #5 | |
| Gear addict Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 311
| Quote:
For all your updates, soundbanks and simple playing you will need some MIDI interface which will communicate with all your synth (send notes & parameter changes from your DAW midi track) your Digi Design 003 Rack have one MIDI in and one MIDI out so you can already connect one or more synths. If you don't have enough knowledge about MIDI and how all THIS works read this. Musical Instrument Digital Interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | |
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| | #6 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2009 Location: Southside
Posts: 1,113
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Personally I am big fan of the hands on approach with hardware VA's and digitals but I can't understand why you have brought so much gear without thinking about how your going to use it first.. sorry ![]() My only suggestion is to record via audio or get a patchbay, your going to need to be receiving and sending midi between them so without having a midi port your going to need to create a midi chain and set each synth so it receives on a differnet channel.
__________________ http://www.soundcloud.com/juanzero |
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| | #7 | |
| Gear addict Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 319
| Quote:
What are you trying to achieve, what's the outcome? Is that a commercial CD release? Sound track? Sample library? You can have a bunch of synths on your hands (even the best ones), DAWs and other tools, but until you'll build the proper "production line" out of it, every project (even simple one) is potentially going to be a failure. | |
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| | #8 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,344
| Quote:
I would do some reading in all your manuals because they all have hookup charts....get a bunch of cables and start pluggin stuff in! I hope that's what your talking about...enjoy and have fun! | |
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| | #9 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2010 Location: Deep OuterBass
Posts: 1,462
| Quote:
Welcome to Gearslutz. You stated pretty clear that you are new to this so. My suggestion is as follows: Pack everything up and put it in the closet. On your desk you will have the following: -Your laptop with Logic installed -1 Synth -your digi interface. and the manuals for each. Here is the hard part. You're going to need to read the manuals. In fact, I suggest that you not just read the manuals but actually work your way through the manual. Page by page going though each and every function spending 5 minutes or 5 hours until you understand what it is that function does before moving on to the next. Once you have made it through the manuals for each of those 3 items you should be up and running. You will have a very solid foundation to work from. At this point you will have a choice. You can A) Add 1 more synth and work through the manual. B) Add both remaining synths because you will understand enough about midi /audio and your setup that you are able to intergrate them without too much of a problem. Altho you will still face the task of understand the particulars of those 2 synths. Personally i would choose A but it its possible the other way too. I say good on you for having the balls to drop a few grand on gear that you really don't understand. Now its time to do the work. Best of luck | |
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| | #10 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,240
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well i don't recommend using 1 synth with everything in the closet. you need to get a multi port midi adapter first and foremost... that is going to be your one big stumbling block to getting the patches in and out of the synths. each synth's midi connection needs to have a dedicated in and out for the dump to work. also you will get a lot less latency issues with dedicated midi in out ports per synth. daisy chaining them is not a good option especially if you're going to use patch editors or librarians or patch dumps in and out of logic. remember one midi in and out port per synth. based on that count your synths, subtract one for the existing port you already have and that's how many more ports you need. they come in port configurations of 1,2, 4 and 8 as far as midi adapters. you need at least as many ports so if you have 3 synths you need ports for best to maybe get a 4 port if you plan on buying anything else in the future. after that what you need to do is... hook the midi in port of keyboard 1 to the first midi out port of your adapter. and then hook the midi out port of keyboard 1 to the first midi in port of your adapter. 2nd in synth - 2nd out midi adapter 2nd out synth - 2nd in midi adapter etc... once that's done read the portions of the manual in logic pertaining to set ting up the internal logic port names for midi ports and channels to show up as your synths name. there may even be a template file for the synth also for a control panel applet inside logic you can download for control and automation options of the front panels. look for those online as people create them for the synths as a 3rd party and are usually free for download. logic may come with some synth templates built in for the older ones you have also. again read the manual for external synth template files. once you have logic set up and the ports set up in logic as well as the midi hardware hooked up... play it safe. turn on one and only one synth, make absolutely sure the synth is the one named on the port you are accessing it with by assigning it to a track and recording a simple quick anything from it and then play it back to see if it's playing back on the correct port and sending it to the right synth. also make sure anything related to midi omni is off in logic. the channels and ports should be configured as individually selectable with no omni mode anything. once that's accomplished... open up the logic sysex utility (if it even has one don't use logic so others may need to chime in here with specifics) and the manual for the synth that's on. set logic to receive a patch dump and make sure the port listed is for the synth you are getting the dump from in the utility. use the manual for the synth's index page to look for midi patch dump. go to that page and look at the patch dump-all procedure and then start logic's sysex utility to start waiting for the patch dump then go back to the keyboard manual and synth and follow the steps to initiate the dump. if you did it right logic will show a succesfully recieved xxxx amount of info etc... and then save that as a sysex file and name it something meaningful to you as this is now a backup of the patches in the synth you bought and may contain a few custom programs from previous owners you want to keep that aren't factory patches. now do the reverse... load the sysex file in the logic utility you purchased... open the manual for the synth and look at patch dump receive-all set the synth to receive a patch dump hit the transmit thingy in logic if it worked you should have a succesful message on your synth and new patches in it. if it didn't then you can ask specific questions in another thread about any error messages and the particualr synth in question. |
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| | #11 | |
| happy cycling | Quote:
Overdosing yourself on gear is immensely counterproductive. Becoming fluent in just Logic already is going to be a long-term project. So you bought this for a huge project. What does it involve? You'll get more useful advice that way, and perhaps some valuable pointers to avoid pitfalls. Unless you're under a severe NDA - you can still specify what kind of work you're planning to do. | |
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| | #12 |
| Lives for gear |
suggestions on top of above; quasi-typical; a bit religious in that plenty will disagree. certainly not a bible. 1) motu timepiece XYZ (there's a few variants) usb8 in/8 out time stampable midi interface motu midi out -> synth midi in (required) synth midi out -> motu midi in (quasi-optional) 2) 1 audio patch bay (24 i/o), cheapest line mixer you can find Buy Behringer Eurorack Pro RX1602 Line Mixer | Unpowered Mixers | Musician's Friend Patchbays from Behringer at zZounds.com synth l/r out, aux 1 out, aux 2 -> top row digi outs -> top row mixer out -> top row mixer ins -> bottom row digi ins -> bottom row assuming you know how a patchbay works, arrange synths so their outs go to your cheap ass mixer, your digi outs go to your cheap ass mixer, and your mixer out is plugged into you monitors (on top row). 3) sysex librarian s n o i z e : SysEx Librarian 4) in audio midi, attach all your synths (or not) 5) in logic, make a track template for each synth for each synth: new midi track set output port to synth setup bank switch command setup program change command laborious process of typing in the patch names (not requried for virus, for obvious reasons) add a few soft synth tracks, outs SAVE YOUR TEMPLATE 6) now all audio is going through your cheap ass mixer. try to keep it at unity gain and forget about it. it's just there as a convience factor until you get your feet wet and find something more to your workflow. 7) when you get your track to a mixable state, instead of routing your synths to your line mixer, via patch bay route them to your audio interface (the digi 003) and record your synth lines. mute all those midi tracks, (unless you feel like layering) and begin the mix down. I think the key is two phases, part one is treat your computer as a sequencer and synth session musicians, listening via the mixer, dealing with midi. When the song is ready, treat your synths as musicians that you need to record into your computer. Now you are dealing with wav. Again not saying this is the greatest workflow or the final one, just maybe a start. |
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| | #13 | |
| Gear interested Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thread Starter | Quote:
YOu have to work hard for everything. Im willing to learn and acheive that. Im submitting material to a Major label, mainly Dance/Pop and few uptempo R&B. | |
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| | #14 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2010 Location: Deep OuterBass
Posts: 1,462
| Quote:
You mention manuals 5 different times. But you think he only needs to read fragments of the manual? No point in reading the whole thing? | |
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| | #15 |
| Gear interested Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thread Starter |
Im truly grateful for everyones advice, Im just trying to figure things on out from hear. Im reading up on your suggestions. I'll get to it. THANK YOU. |
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| | #16 |
| Lives for gear |
Wow! It seems like you jumped into the deep end head first You've got a lot of reading and head scratching ahead of you, but all the advice is here to hook up your stuff ![]() Do you have any friends who can help? If not you may want to pay someone to guide you through a set up. It will be money well spent, as I'm guessing you want to get your ideas out asap.
__________________ Good credit, bad credit, no credit, what is credit, can't read or write... www.myspace.com/marshmallowcoast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_Coast |
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| | #17 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,240
| Quote:
when i started out all i had was one keyboard an esq-1 and a tone module the alesis proteus 1 and a cheap mixer and a vcr for audio recording. dat had just come out and was 3k for a recorder. 4 track cassette analogs were still $800. the esq-1 manual talked about oscs and lfos and filters and walked you through assigning modulators in each one etc... i had a basic understanding of subtractive synthesis and knew what an lfo and envelope and osc etc... were. i thought thanks to the manual that you put the lfo on the filter or osc and the envelope went on the amps or the pitch of the osc or the filter. it took a while for me to finally ditch the manual except to seek out esoteric info on midi settings and the sequencer editing functions. once i did i was far better off. now the lfo was used as a gate for the amps for the individual dca's and i was doing arps with the esq-1 and gating the pad sounds etc... reading a manual isn't going to take his idea and translate that into a can it be done or not approach but make him start to think in limited terms of this is this that is that based on whatever the manula writer decided was the best "common" approach to using the gear. not a "how do i..." approach. if you take a "how do i" approach the manual is a handy reference and you get more done. reading it cover to cover is just to aquiant you with an overview of how the synth does things. you won't possibly remember all the details and will still need to reference the manual from time to time. so why bother the cover to cover read? my suggestion is to watch some youtube videos of the synth in question where someone makes some patches on it. you'll glean far more tips that way and see how the interface functions and hear the effect certain things have on the sound. | |
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| | #18 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Me!bourne, Australia
Posts: 1,240
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Please let us know how your huge project turns out, I'm dying to know ![]() PS Excellent choice with the Neptune2! |
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| | #19 |
| Gear Head Joined: Sep 2010 Location: los angeles
Posts: 36
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are you an artist/singer? you could have spent the gear money on paying a producer/studio to engineer 4 solid tracks for you (if you plan on submitting to a major). Plus you should probably save money for legal and entertainment counseling and promotions. Things don't happen overnight. This applies to making music, or even getting a major to look at you (especially once they've signed you). I wish you the best of luck. As suggested above, your best bet is to just have your laptop and logic installed, watch youtube videos and read every manual and tutorial you can find on logic as thats gonna be your most powerful asset. (i've been producing with logic since 2001 and i still havent even gotten to 30% of reaching its full potential). You can learn alot about synths using logic so that once you power on that virus or micro q you'll understand what you're getting into. Best of luck.. p.s. i hope you have a great preamp to go with that digi003, great monitors and a decent tuned room. |
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| | #20 |
| Gear nut |
[QUOTE=artech909;5804268]First of all i suggest you to record all your synths with analog out's cause almost every digital synth will sound better analog than digital. (i have Virus TI for example and analog outs are tonn better than digital sound more solid for me) i just recently purchased my virus....is using the usb connection not the best way to use the virus ti with logic? or is that the only way? cause right now thats how im using it with my audio cables
__________________ @mannyforbes on twitter |
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| | #21 |
| Gear addict Joined: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere outside of Boston
Posts: 450
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my thing would not be to put any gear in the closet.. cause.. I'd be depressed then.. always wanting to play with it.. nope.. What I would do is to break things down into goals... My first move would be to try and get some kind of a summery understanding of everything.. kinda understand the features / what the thing in question does.. not enough to actually know the thing.. but to have a sense of what it can do / what are the range of possibilities... Next what I'd do is.. well once I have some kind of a big picture idea of everything.. I'll have some kind of vision in mind.. so like.. a vision of what kind of an artist I want to be.. and what are the individual puzzle pieces I need to master in order to become that artist.. So for instance.. it's like.. break what you want to do into bite size pieces.. like.. "ok, I want to record this over here into that over there using that thing there and..." you know.. and figure out each step.. like just figuring out how to get audio into the freaking computer can be a trick.. when you don't understand the software yet.. or how the operating system does what.. I mean I think there are probably not very many people who know how to do every single thing that all there tools do.. it's more like you work out what you want from them.. and then kinda grow out from there.. So for me it's like.. ok.. well how do I control these synths via midi? how do I manipulate the midi in the sequencer? how do I record the audio into the DAW? How do I mix the audio? You know.. we could get crazy and say "well really what you want to do is have the audio from the synth going to that speaker over there and then you mic the speaker," and then another guy goes.. cause he really wants to prove that he's the real hard core gear slut "no bitch.. just take the audio digitally into the computer.. and then.. latter when mixing.. then put it out to the speaker.. and mic it.. and then mix that in with the digital signal.." But then another guy is like "no man, you guys are wacked.. that audio interface has crappy D/A.. so you can't do it that way.. you'll just have to record it in multiple passes.. onto different channels.. and then mix those channels to taste. Err, do you see what I'm saying? Like.. that we could get into this whole debate about this small area.. and each solution would have a different implication.. implications of work flow.. how long it takes.. implications of the actually sound.. And you know.. so becoming a hard core sonic bad ass... is about exploring this kinda crap.. but really.. you need to start your self off with a really low bar.. like.. "does it really matter as long as I get the freaking audio into the computer so I can hear all my parts together?" I mean what you really want to do is try and learn this language.. and you want to start buy mastering a few simple things.. doing them over and over again.. and then you kind of slowly will develop a vocabulary via which you can get creative.. or thats my advice anyway... (not that i would really advise following it but you know) |
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| | #22 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,600
| Quote:
Sometimes it is indeed necessary to buy an obscene bunch of gear for a project and worry about the details later. Example: You need 10 seconds authentic Virus color in a song, so you buy a TI2. In that case you're better off picking a GS brain for two minutes than spending two hours/days/weeks with the fine manual. | |
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| | #23 | |
| happy cycling | Thanks! Quote:
Let me elaborate. Logic was among the list of purchases. Unless you have a client who makes a very compelling argument for the purchase of another DAW (importing projects, for instance), a DAW is something you already have. DAWs are the foundation of a studio for 9 out of 10 producers. For the ones that use hardware sequencing, a lot more infrastructure is already in place - as well as experience - so they wouldn't have to ask the question. Thus, my assumption is that the topicstarter has little to no experience with DAWs yet. I'd love to be proven wrong, because that would mean that all we have to teach him is how to translate familiar concepts from one DAW to another. Based on that assumption (and you know that GS gets a big audience; it's not just for experienced pros anymore), trying to hook up everything at once without becoming familiar first with the basics of operation of a DAW is risky. You have to troubleshoot several devices at once instead of just one; getting MIDI interfaces and audio interfaces to work, as well as creating a template project can already take a day if you don't know any shortcuts and haven't cracked open the manual yet. The best advice would be to hire someone who's experienced in this and have them hook up stuff so you can get started without headaches about the bare necessities. Otherwise the topicstarter will only be busy trying several solutions (and possibly overlooking something basic) only to still not get anything to work. So, try to get a controller hooked up to Logic - and get sound of your audio interface, first. Then we can continue. Not an unreasonable request, I hope. | |
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| | #24 |
| Gear nut Joined: May 2010
Posts: 143
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man no offence but this is crazy, have you a general idea about synthesis, buying so much stuff at the one time can lead to a head fcuk, reading upon reading manuals and then you have to learn how to use the daw???? |
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| | #25 | ||
| Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,600
| Quote:
Quote:
Bryan Evans - Music Studio Training/Advisory Service I believe he charges £40-50 per hour (and an hour is a LOOONG time). Could be the best spent money ever... | ||
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| | #26 |
| Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 632
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Why did you choose the synths you did? Is there a specific feature or sound one produces that you really want to start with? If I needed to pick one to start learning on I would probably go with the Waldorf, but but if you really like the sound of the Novation, or want the depth of the Virus immediately... Sit down with the synth, read the manual, learn how logic works and how to record, edit use different effects. Once you have a decent feel for the first synth move on to the next. Worry about a patch bay and more midi I/O later. You can always write the midi for a part, record it as audio when you are happy, unplug the synth and connect up the next one to add another part (horrible way of working but keeps you from buying more stuff before you know what you are doing and if you want to continue) There is enough overlap between your synths that I have a feeling you may end up deciding one of them is all you need for VA sounds and you want to trade for something that cover other bases (rompler, fm, etc.), or simply sell the ones you are not using to get better recording gear. Buying a bunch of stuff before you know what you need is (at least in my experience) a good way to get frustrated. |
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| | #27 |
| Lives for gear |
i assume this huge project is to become a successful EDM producer. shot in the dark but my gut says this is what it is. tell us OP? whats the huge project. smacks of pie in the sky.
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| | #28 | |
| Gear maniac Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 208
| Quote:
Last edited by rockerbruce; 20th September 2010 at 03:37 PM.. Reason: sloppy | |
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| | #29 | |
| Lives for gear | Quote:
nothing beats having someone pass on the knowledge one can read a book on plumbing one can watch youtube videos on plumbing one can even do diy plumbing but watch a pro plumber for 5 minutes and you can learn more in that 5 minutes... | |
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| | #30 | |
| Gear Head Joined: Jan 2009 Location: On a blue marble in the Milky Way Galaxy.
Posts: 63
| Quote:
Hell, I'll say that perhaps my hours spent reading manuals and twisting knobs are all part of a "huge project" to produce and spin tracks of my own that make people want to dance but at least I can humbly admit that I still have a lot of practicing and musical theory to catch up on before I'm ready for prime time. My suggestion to the OP on this "huge project" is that if it really is a huge project, sell all of your gear and hire someone else to do it because there is no way you will meet the deadline unless it's a few years from today. Just being honest....
__________________ A lot of people like to list their gear as a signature so here it is.... electricity, a treated room, and a cat. | |
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