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Old 11th May 2010   #1
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Additive synthesis synth

Does anyone know any good additive synthesis hardware synths?
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Old 11th May 2010   #2
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only one I know of...

Cameleon 5000 - Additive Synth - VSTi Instrument, Audio Units plugin
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Old 11th May 2010   #3
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Kawai K5000 comes in rack or keyboard
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Old 11th May 2010   #4
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Originally Posted by LinearAggression View Post
Kawai K5000 comes in rack or keyboard

yea thats the only analog one i can think of off the top of my head. i would think this is one of the realms where software has hardware beat out. metasynth makes me happy.
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Old 11th May 2010   #5
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there are a few actually
kawai k5000s being the cheapest and best bang for buck.
k5000r is okay but missing knobs and the great keyboard action of the k5000s
k5000w is a workstation version and has drum maps but lacks additive plus pcm samples in one patch like the r and s.

osc oscar

kawai k5 (avoid this one though its a bitch to use and sounds fairly horrible)

any drawbar organ

synclavier

axcel (weird tablet type additive synth similar in looks to a tenori on or mono-me that would do resynthesis using additive)

and there's a few others but i just can't remember all of them right now as i'm pretty tired
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Old 11th May 2010   #6
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the k5000 isn't analog

processing power is at the point where it doesn't really matter if it is software or hardware... its all digital until it spits it out... so converters are important.

and a tactile interface > mouse and computer screen any day of the week

not to mention... you can sell a used hardware synth if you don't gel with it... but i guess you don't even have to buy the software since so many just steal anonymously over the internet
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Old 11th May 2010   #7
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k5000s was my first synth ever, when i was 16 or so, boy was that over my head lol

i wish i still had it as it seems a bit rare these days and had some cool pads, i used to just get stoned and tweak a chord for hours over a basic beat lol

there's a few synths i feel that way about, ill never sell anything again
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Old 11th May 2010   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axm311 View Post
k5000s was my first synth ever, when i was 16 or so, boy was that over my head
+1 . The K5000S was too much for me as my first synth - even with the Wizoo book - but it was capable of some of the most beautiful evolving pads. I'm going to pick up Camel Audio's Alchemy sometime in the next week or so to fill the additive gap in my synth collection.

Also, FWIW, the keybed on the K5000S is the best I've played to this day. It'd make a great master controller for that reason.
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Old 11th May 2010   #9
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Also, FWIW, the keybed on the K5000S is the best I've played to this day.
yeah it's very nice

beautiful brushed aluminum case too, and very knobby
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Old 11th May 2010   #10
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Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
Also, FWIW, the keybed on the K5000S is the best I've played to this day. It'd make a great master controller for that reason.
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Originally Posted by axm311 View Post
and very knobby
Only frustration is that you can't change midi channels without pressing 3-4 buttons and that the knobs don't transmit midi CC's.
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Old 11th May 2010   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentokan View Post
Does anyone know any good additive synthesis hardware synths?
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Old 11th May 2010   #12
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There are also a few seiko additive synths as well as the one from Wersi, the EX20.
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Old 11th May 2010   #13
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Thanks guys! Are there still in the making any?(hardware that is)
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Old 11th May 2010   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
that the knobs don't transmit midi CC's.

yes they do!
The CC's are..

16 Harm Lo
17 Harm Hi
18 FF Bias
19 FF Speed
71 Even/Odd
72 Release
73 Attack
74 Cutoff
75 FF Depth
76 Velocity
77 Resonance
78 Decay
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Old 11th May 2010   #15
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The Roland D-50/D-550 employes some additive techniques in its synthesis architecture, and with the PG-1000 it's fairly easy to use and quite powerful.
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Old 11th May 2010   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamonu View Post
yes they do!
The CC's are..

16 Harm Lo
17 Harm Hi
18 FF Bias
19 FF Speed
71 Even/Odd
72 Release
73 Attack
74 Cutoff
75 FF Depth
76 Velocity
77 Resonance
78 Decay
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Cool - where did you find out about that?

I didn't find it in the manual?

Thx :-)
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Old 11th May 2010   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-W-Int View Post
k5000r is okay but missing knobs and the great keyboard action of the k5000s
There was an external knob box available for the K5000r with the same aesthetic:

MiK-Music : Kawai K5000 Macro Control

I really liked my K5000s, but the aftertouch was broken and such a brutally digital sound didn't mesh well with the direction I was headed. You really need to be a tweaker to get the most out of it.
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Old 11th May 2010   #18
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Sound Source in Rochester NY has a Kurzweil 150FS additive synth for $200. You don't see these often.
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Old 12th May 2010   #19
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Still have my k5000s

I do love it for what it does. Used it with a MultiMoog for a while. The two were so much like oil and water there was never any worry of them blending into a puddle. Both stuck out in the mix. I'd put the K5000S right up there as a classic.
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Old 12th May 2010   #20
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Roland sh3a is kinda in the same rudimentary way as a drawbar organ.
Want.
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Old 12th May 2010   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
Sound Source in Rochester NY has a Kurzweil 150FS additive synth for $200. You don't see these often.
Yeah, I've always been intrigued about that one. But man is that sucker big. I think the only way to edit is with a old computer editor that you have to buy seperately....
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Old 12th May 2010   #22
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Originally Posted by sentokan View Post
Does anyone know any good additive synthesis hardware synths?
Long story cut short, there are but they are not a good idea .

Additive like it or not needs a mouse. Its not substractive and not even fm.

Editing even 32 partials , is a huge pain with buttons and menus , even knobs. While with the mouse, with just a simple move you can draw as many partials as you want.

Second reason is that soft synths have gone light years ahead of hardware counterparts. Most importantly they do sample resynthesis, that hardware does not do. With the exception of neuron maybe .

I was lusting for a proper additive synth for a long time, I even bought a cheap k5r , but I quickly realised that for partial editing I needed a mouse. Editor for k5r came to mind at first but then I was rethinking going back to Chameleon 5000.

And then I read somewhere that Alchemy was a sequel to chameleon. I knew Alchemy but I though it was an omnisphere clone, rompler with synthesizer abilities.

But I found out that its far from that. Actually alchemy does not only do additive but also spectral and graintables. Spectral is alot of fun , works similar like additive but you actually paint coloration that Alchemy translates to sound, it can even use image files. Its super cool. You can draw lines, paint circles, copy paste part of your image or use your own custom brushes all of them translating into sound texture.

Now Additive concerned it offers a mind blowing 600 partials, each partial has its own , amp , pitch and phase multipoint envelope. So we are talking about extremely flexible/powerful partials here. Meaning that the envelop may have as many points as you like, there is even a detail knob that make it dead eays to suplify your envelop so that you can make broad changes, you dont lose points , you just make broader changes. Alchemy with these envelops can resynthesize even moving highly complex sounds, it works pretty well for instance with human voice, or just any crazy sample you may find. Its possible to use combined additive and spectral , spectral is better at noisy non harmonical samples and sounds.

Also the synth is dead easy to use , it offers loads of tools that simplify the process that traditional additve hardware synths can only dream of. If you seriously thinking additive I will say to save your money and buy Alchemy with a good midi controller , like a novation remote, Alchemy has many virtual knobs that are all midi assignable.

Another cool thing about the synth is the random functionality , it uses templates so instead of making completely random results it makes sounds tha make perfect sense and are extremely usable, so if you are in a big hurry , pressing one button and choosing the right template is all you need to make your sound. You can then jump in and edit any of the 600 partials you want. Or use all 5 engines at the same time (additive, spectral, VA, graintable and sampler) . Each sound is made up to 4 sound sources , each source may use any one of the engines with the exception of additive and spectral that can be used together combined.

Alchemy can also do graintable, it has a VA engine and is also a regular sampler. All engines support multisample SFZ files which can even be used for resynthesis. There is also some crazy routing inside, there are filters inside the source, filters outside the sources and even filters as effects. There is an extremely deep mod matrix that can do crazy thing but unlike other mod matrixes is again completely knod driven and all those knobs can be midi assignable. There multiple point enevelops that can have an infinite amount of points. There is a sequencer and a arpeggiator, actually if I am not mistaken there 16 for each and they can be used as modulation sources. There is a perfomance section that you can use to make map modulation routing, there are 2 XY pads and one pad that can go through 8 vraitions of your sound. The source can do crossfading but also real morphing between themselves and all of this can be mapped to the perfomance section. The effects also are very good, as Camel Audio used to sell them seperately and I think it still does. And the list goes on and on and on. If alchemy was a hardware synth would cost around 6000 euros easily.

It is the first soft synth I have ever bought, and the only soft synth I use.

I use it to spice up my Andromeda , and it work like a charm, bringing textures that are very difficult and time consuming to do with andromeda or any va/analog out there in matters of minutes.
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Old 12th May 2010   #23
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Originally Posted by kilon View Post
Additive like it or not needs a mouse. Its not substractive and not even fm.
With additive synths, the advantage is that you can independently adjust 1024 partials.

The disadvantage is that you have to independently adjust 1024 partials.

(loosely quoted from Wendy Carlos)

Thanks for mentioning Alchemy again, Kilon - it was already on my list to check out, but has been bumped up in rank now .
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Old 12th May 2010   #24
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With additive synths, the advantage is that you can independently adjust 1024 partials.

The disadvantage is that you have to independently adjust 1024 partials.
Oh Wait! Which hardware synth offers 1024 partials editing ? !!!

I saw them go up to 128 at best.
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Old 12th May 2010   #25
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I find it pretty limited.
It's not like it can choke up 64 partials, nevermind enveloping each one.
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Old 12th May 2010   #26
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I'm building an additive synth myself ...only 32 partilas , but every partial has its own multibreakpoint pitch /amp envelope ..
All added ( for the full spectrum output ) and at the same time all partialsl are routed trough a scanner module , Which gives me the opportunity to scroll trough all the partials independantly ( random lfo or xy device ), wavetablestyle .
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Old 12th May 2010   #27
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Ooops hardware only ...sorry
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Old 12th May 2010   #28
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You could count Kyma as a hardware additive synth. Of the hardware-based synths it's then definitely be the most flexible.

In software, Alchemy and Metasynth are great.

Any of these beat my K5000s in terms of not needing a *year* to create a cool spectrum ;-)
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Old 12th May 2010   #29
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software, but...

I just did a little review/tutorial on Image-line's Morhpine....I like!!!!!!

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Old 12th May 2010   #30
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i've heard a rumour that the K5000's screen makes a whining sound!
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