Analog synth suggestions

[MikeMitchell]

I'm a long time user of absynth, and a few other soft synths, but I'd like to make the move into the tangible realm. I know squat about synthesizers. I'm looking for a synth(s) that will give me a fat, straight tone. I don't need any evolving or effects bulltshit just heavy straight synth lines. I don't know if these are called pads or what (I've got no clue wtf pads or atmospheres or any of the categories mentioned in absynth are). A point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. A not so knowledgale friend of mine said it sounded like I was looking for an old analog synth like a juno 106. I'm thinking NINish synth lines. Something to couple heavy distorted guitars.
I'll be running it into an me1nv if thats any help.

Thanks, Michael

[matt thomas]

sounds to me like you'd like something from waldorf. they are digital emulations but they are fat and angry, very NIN.

the alesis andromeda is fantastic for how many features it has in a true analog synth.

And the moog voyager is a modern version of the moog classics.

narco

[parasitk]

Some notable synths in NIN history:

Prophet VS
PPG
Minimoog
Waldorf MicroWave
Nord Modular
Virus
Doepfer modular
Metasonix stuff
Oberheim Xpander
Reaktor

[matt thomas]

Although I'd say trent reznor probably just used whatever he could get his hands on when he was starting out.. find something in your grandads closet or whatever.

The recent korg synth that looks analog, or the novation supernova might be possibilities too.

NIN use Logic Audio alot, so I'd assume they use plugin synths alot too..

beware that the cheaper waldorfs are monophonic (ie. one sound at a time)

this one will be to your liking
http://cgi.ebay.com/Waldorf-Microwav...QQcmdZViewItem

[Infection]

i would look for a virus b desktop they are very popular and right now they are only about $400 on Ebay, the and the Alesis Ion is pretty sweet and is only about 600.

if you want somethin a little more expensive i would go for the waldorf or the Virus TI, maybe even the andromeda. thats jus me tho. also i can point you towards some nice PDFs that i have used and they helped me a lot with synth modeling, once u learn what certain knobs do u can pretty much apply them to aynthing.

[tINY]

If you are going to play this thing (not whimp out an use midi), then you should be able to find a used one to suit your needs. The juno 60 was fatter than the 106.

Get anything you can get cheap locally. Just make sure that it has 2 VCO's (or DCO - but the VCOs are fatter) a full ADSR filter, a Low pass filter (LPF, VCF, etc) and a route-able LFO.

Part of the sound and fun of real analog synths is their character and unpredictablity


-tINY

[MikeMitchell]

Originally Posted by tINY

If you are going to play this thing (not whimp out an use midi), then you should be able to find a used one to suit your needs. The juno 60 was fatter than the 106.

Get anything you can get cheap locally. Just make sure that it has 2 VCO's (or DCO - but the VCOs are fatter) a full ADSR filter, a Low pass filter (LPF, VCF, etc) and a route-able LFO.

Could you explain what VCO and DCO are in a little bit more detail? I noticed the juno 60 uses DCO. This is all new to me! A nice change of pace too I might add, very inspiring trying out new forms of instruments.
Thanks,
mike

[r0ck1r0ck2]

(drunk after rehearsal trying to explain subtractive synthesis)

ok...turned up the WuTang!!!!

synths had tone generators (generates tones) usually one to 10 different waveforms..... saw/sine/triangle
originaly just one or two notes at a time....

they would have a bass line frequency....
and then another to add different harmonics to the noise created by the 1st Occiator(sp? <---drunk after rehearsal)
this creates a more interesting more complex tone like a flute vs a sax (monophonic)
monophonic instruments = sax
polyphonic = guitar/piano

the noise created is boring and so they filtered it with a low pass/high pass/band pass filter.....you know.....an eq.....

then the filtered waveform was fed into an envelope witch determined how the tone was presented.....slow rise.....long sustain....a lotta varations.....(sp?)

DCO= Digitally Controlled Occilator (sp?) in practice...less fat/more accurate
VCO=Voltage Controlled Occilator (sp?) in practice......more fat/less accurate

modern virtual analog synths are a joke to me....really lifeless....
screw them with a baseball bat

these are the very basics......
there is sooooooo much more to synths than this.....
you're in for some reading my love...

that being said.....a Roland Juno-6 or 60 will be an excellent 1st synth...
midi is available on the 160 and 60 threw the dcb duss...don't ask....

i like em way more than sequential sequential has chinzy knobs..

get the juno-6 as they are somewhat cheap..($350)...and the most reliable (sp?)

all these new analogues are boring and have lame techno-esq presets....

DO NOT GET THAT DAMN MiniKorg...
it is really really boring....
and it teaches you nothing....
**** that damn box

drunk after rehearsal

[tINY]

What the drunk guy said.

Real analog synths had tone generators - the better ones had two. This is what give you the pitch. Usually you had a sine, triangle, and square wave, some had a pulse wave with a vaiable duty cycle (changes the harmonic content). The VCO type were fed a control voltage from the keyboard to determine what pitch to put out. The DCO used a digital code to control the ocillator.

When you have two ocillators, you can usually mix the two together in a fixed manner and often with a LFO or envelope control.

What gave the fat sound to a lot of the ocillator pairs is the ability to detune one from the other. Some early VCOs weren't that stable and tended to be a bit out of tune almost all the time. Later VCOs and DCOs allowed you to manually detune one from the other and sometimes use an LFO to modulate the pitch on them as well. With a fully modular synth, you could modulate the tuning with an ADSR envelope generator too (I'm not sure if any of the patch-cord-less synths could do this or not).





-tINY

[carbon]

don't get a juno-106. good synth but suffers from a problem which is that one or more of the VCF (filter) chips can go bad on it at any time. This is becoming a well-known problem. Its not hard to fix, if you can find a replacement chip ($80ish), and know how to solder. But its a pain in the neck. Personally, I like my synths as maintenance free as possible.

Juno-60 is nice sounding and doesn't suffer from this problem. If you want to use it with midi you'll have to buy a convertor from Kenton which will cost you a little over $100. Also the individual sliders don't transmit midi data, like the 106.

Korg DW-8000 is also a cheaper alternative.

All sorts of reviews at: http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/

[r0ck1r0ck2]

actually every juno 60 i bought came with the roland convertor...(had 2....they both took shi+s)

and for nin...you might wanna consider an early Digital.....
Yamaha DX Series lots of presets available....hard to program for a synth newbie
good bass tho'

i swear by the casio CZ series for Early Digital (Gotta CZ-1 for $99)
much easier to program

no knobs tho'

you gonna really want knobs...

as they make stoned exploration fun...
headphones at 3 am.....watch that volume tho'
you WILL go Deaf

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by MikeMitchell

I'm thinking NINish synth lines. Something to couple heavy distorted guitars.

start with a Minimoog or V'ger. Trent has used at least one minimoog on practically everything... if it's bass, it's prolly a mini. Waldorf pulse would be a "cheap" substitute here.. it'll get you in the ballpark.

NIN is more about getting unique sounds with esoteric fx and compression than any one particular synth... so i'd start with a synth/sampler and a PILE of fx pedals.

a pad is generally a chorused synth chord held...

you might be a lot better off asking how to get sound X in song Y... otherwise the answers are gonna be so varied that they'll be essentially useless.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

you will NEVER Regret the MiniMoog
until it breaks....
then it will be fixed and you wil be back in heaven...

always run synths threw fx pedals......
don't be silly....
they need extra gooey love
try a marshall stack for your bass/lead lines

[Bones]

I hate saying this, but as usual it is going to be budget reliant.

If you want to spend around the $700 - $1000 mark, then an old Prophet 5, Oberheim OBX-a, Jupiter 8 will hold its own amongst the guitars and will also get your money back in the future.

For $250 - $700, I would also agree with those suggesting a Juno 60 or 106 (difference will be irrelevant in a dense guitar mix) and I would use this for polyphonic pads and strings and would then also look for an old monophonic Moog Prodigy or Moog Rogue (and although I have never heard one, the Concertmate MG-1 is apparently similar to these two and MUCH cheaper on eBay) and use it alongside the Juno for cutting, searing leads that will definately upset any complacent guitarists in the band.

There are HUNDREDS of synths out there and it is really impossible to choose one without actually having a personal favorite.

I own all of the above and many more and although a MiniMoog on top of an OBXa would be my personal choice, I feel that my second suggestion of a Juno and a cheaper Moog (must have 2 Oscillators) would be a reasonably cheap way to sit somewhere in the middle.

Ciao

[hemmick reef]

Alesis ION

http://www.alesis.com/products/Ion/

[Rush909]

I agree with the previous poster about NIN sound (atleast the new stuff) being made more with FX and processing then straight ahead keys... I recently downloaded his "only" GB files out of interest... and there is not a single sound there that had been left unaffected... everything is distorted, messed with, f'ed up... so you might get a good result going with a newer Virtual Analog synth and mangle to taste afterwords...

r.

[max cooper]

I suggest spending some times going thru this website. There are descriptions of zillions of synthesizers, lists of who's used them and what they ought to go for (roughly) on the used market.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/

Also, less of a buyer's guide, but horribly, terribly interesting is:

http://www.synthmuseum.com/


I got lost for hours in there; I lost almost an entire day of productivity.

[six_wax]

An Alesis Andromeda, Virus C Desktop, or Waldorf Q rack would definitely serve you well for these purposes. The Andromeda is more gooey analog, the Virus C does the best edgy sounds, and the Q does unique & complex leads very well, though is less "tough" sounding that than the Vc. The Vc is probably the easiest to program, while the Q is the toughest. Although I adore the Andy's sound and there are knobs for virtually everything, it still manages to be tough to get around.

As it happens, I have one of each for sale! All great boards that served me beautifully when I was more focused on making blazing synth music than tracking and mixing. Really top notch stuff. PM me if you're interested in any of them.

Vintage stuff is cool too, but limited or absent MIDI implementation and needing to be tuned repeatedly or repaired is not cool. Don't think that just because something's old it's better. Kind of like guitar amps, there are lots of modern classics that don't get the press...

[cdog]

oops dbl post

[cdog]

Studio Electronics SE1X

Alesis Andromeda

[Infection]

just an idea tho most of the virus modules are just the same with a few new features cool features yest but i mean if it saves u 200 dollars ya know, but htats all up to you (maybe its just becuase i still want to buy a virus)

[LightningBefore]

Moog! I have a Micromoog, Rogue, and the Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue. . . dude, my personal favorite is the Micromoog, straight up powerful tone for bass and leads, very distinct but you can get more out of it than just one sound. BUT! Going against what everyone is saying on here, it only has one Oscillator, yet it still sounds great.

Two Oscs does give you more flexibility and harmony (like with the MiniBlue!) and helps with the leads and bass. . . .

But my vote is for a Moog because I think they most represent "that" analog sound, otherwise definatley a Juno would be in order as well.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by Rush909

I agree with the previous poster about NIN sound (atleast the new stuff) being made more with FX and processing then straight ahead keys... I recently downloaded his "only" GB files out of interest... and there is not a single sound there that had been left unaffected... everything is distorted, messed with, f'ed up... so you might get a good result going with a newer Virtual Analog synth and mangle to taste afterwords...

the one sound I wish i could get, just for the sport of it, is the watery bassline for Closer.... I got real close with a waldorf microwave (vel>filter), a filter pedal, and an eventide 4000... it's obvious it's at least 2 sounds.. but i didn't quite "nail" it.

he used to do a lot of k2000 tricks on his samples... you can get 90% of the Piggy piano by routing one of the clock sources to pitch on the preset 'stereo grand'. there's about 4 different clocks so you have to play around a bit. I hear him using the k2000 waveshapers a lot on Downward Spiral & the Manson records... take the drums for The Becoming for example... There's quite a bit of processed Prophet-VS on there too. Obie Xpander is another one.. and the OberMoog bass in Eraser

the GTR on We're in this Together is definitely a Zvex fuzz factory.. these are fun to figure out.

on [with teeth] supposedly he uses Izotope Trash on a lot of stuff... there's not a lot of difficult sounds on this cd. it seems to me he's trying to write stuff for a live band and isn't using anywhere near as many synths/samplers. I do like the "sex dwarf" synth sounds in Bite the Hand that Feeds and the drums in The Line Begins to Blur. fun fun fun

[r0ck1r0ck2]

he dosen't know what a DCO is.....
(sorry)
you can't have a Moog yet.....
they are too expensive.....
the are too crotchety (sp?)
you will not treat it with the lack of respect that instruments need for a beginner...
you need something to slap the shit out of....
loosen those inhibitians....(sp?)
Juno-6.....($350 to $450)
Casio CZ-1000 ($100 to $200)

and a virus will only lead to trouble.....

[stevep]

For the $$$ The Juno 60 is the call,
You will like its sounds and its easy to use

Steve

[Joe Silence]

i'm pretty sure the first NIN album had Ensoniq EPS+ (8-voice 12 bit sampler with analog VCFs and VCAs) slathered all over it. Trent was pretty broke at the time and got maximum mileage from everything he had.

the DW-8000 also has analog VCFs and VCAs, but the oscillators are single cycle digital waves (but they're excellent). i have one, it sounds good and there's a built-in DDL to boot. thing wakes up in Omni mode, tho!

as for totally analog synths under digital control, i like the Sequential Circuits Six Trak. 6 voices (can be broken into 6 individual mono synths each on their own MIDI channel(!), monophonic mode stacks and slightly detunes all 6 voices for a MASSIVE sound, analog VCFs and VCAs, 3 ADSR envelopes for controlling VCO/VCF/VCA control, hot output and EXCELLENT MIDI implementation!
all that and they're rock solid dependable (unlike other SCI synths that followed shortly afterward)!

just my $0.02

[goldphinga]

Whats your Budget?
Do you want the synth for lead/bass or more pads?-Mono or Poly?

I would say the choices are as follows

-Polysynth-Polyevolver keyboard,Alessis Andromeda,

-Monosynth-Voyager



I have a big old analogue synth collection, but the repair costs are starting to mount up. The new analogue synths listed above will all get very close to the originals but with none of the repair headaches. Also you get added osc stability,midi and patch storage with all the above. If you want old analogue kit buy it later, but for now with your first analogue synth you should buy one of the new breed which sound great and are reliable and will integrate much better with our lovely daw's. You dont want to be dealing with crackling pots,out of tune oscs and bad key contacts before you've even played a note!

Good luck.

[MissionDifficult]

I suggest you do a little reading on synths and synthesis before you buy anything major. Definitely check out the Vintage Synth Explorer forums. It sounds like you're looking for something that can do decent leads and pads. I'll also agree on the Juno-60. It's not too expensive and if you treat it nice, you can sell it and get your money back if it doesn't pan out for you. Another idea is too look into a small modular setup. It would be a great hands-on way too learn about synthesis. Maybe check out Analogue Systems for a modular setup. Alessandro Cortini is using a small Analogue Systems modular with the French Connection controller while he's on tour with NIN right now. Good luck with your decision.

[goldphinga]

The juno range are ok but a bit on the thin sounding side, the upside is they are cheap but they aren't great for monol eads/bass as they dont have a proper legato/mono mode and the glide is only polyphonic. The chorus circuit is needed for getting anywhere near the warmth of the big poly's but i dont think they are great all rounders.

Better to up the budget and get an andromeda,polyevolver,prophet 5 or jupiter 6-8. Sonically the rolands are more well behaved and harder to get a gritty/dirty sound. If you want the classic leads or bass sounds you need a moog, or an se1x or atc. I havent tried the prophet so cant comment.

Otherwise buy a cheaper mono such as the rogue,source or prodigy and buy a juno just to do the pads. Unfortunately the only polysynth which nails the classic moog basses is the memorymoog as it has a proper mono/legato mode,but these are rare and expensive.

The ms series korgs are great dirty fx machines as well but again they are much thinner sounding than the moogs. It really depends on the sound you are after. The best sounding/cheapest way to do it is to buy a juno and compliment it with one of the moog monosynths.

[MikeMitchell]

Id really like the pads and the leads. Not looking to spend more than 300-400, thats why I though the juno60 would be a good choice. Want the knobs and sliders to work with, in the learning phase of synthesis. Thanks for all the great info guys.
Adam

Any suggestions b\w the juno 6 and the 60?