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Yamaha RS7000? looking for a hardware sequencer for live sets
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#31
20th February 2010
Old 20th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
sorry but i think we're having 2 different conversations or something... i explained clearly what my needs are, and what i want the sequencer to achieve.
which says nothing of how you write music. i think you are just looking for validation on your decision - you have discounted other options that i feel are superior to the R7000 and RM1X - and i explained why.

to each their own. best of luck.
#32
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarkko View Post
Nice, the grid edit looks actually pretty usable. It would be cool to be able to control other events as well, like MIDI CC's for MD-style parameter locks.
You can't control the CC's from that magical edit screen of doom, however in grid edit, if you switch to control, you can use the Q sliders for pitch bend, aftertouch, and CC's. I know for sure it'll record these in realtime, but I'm not sure if you can just manually assign a CC to a step. I'll test it out in a little bit when I get back to doing things that are a little more productive. (I hate you, internet. I hate you so much...)
#33
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
You can't control the CC's from that magical edit screen of doom, however in grid edit, if you switch to control, you can use the Q sliders for pitch bend, aftertouch, and CC's. I know for sure it'll record these in realtime, but I'm not sure if you can just manually assign a CC to a step. I'll test it out in a little bit when I get back to doing things that are a little more productive. (I hate you, internet. I hate you so much...)
Okay, just tried it out. In MIDI grid edit, when you hit 'shift' and the function control for 'control', you end up in the CC editor. From here, you can either set which one you want adjust, hit record & play and record the movement of the slider, or you just hit record, scroll over to where you want the CC change to happen, and adjust the slider for that point. The only downside is that control editing isn't available when you're in 'drum' mode, but as you can see from that video I did, switching the mode of a channel from drum to MIDI is as easy as going to the main page and switching the mode, so it's just one extra step to emulate parameter locks on a drum track.

And thanks for asking about this stuff. It's making me learn all these cool tricks with this thing that I didn't know were there yet!
#34
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
And thanks for asking about this stuff. It's making me learn all these cool tricks with this thing that I didn't know were there yet!
Hehe, no problem. I though I was starting to be pain in the ass. And thanks to you! This is very good information for anyone considering JJOS. The manuals are not exactly best literature I've seen...
#35
21st February 2010
Old 21st February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarkko View Post
Hehe, no problem. I though I was starting to be pain in the ass. And thanks to you! This is very good information for anyone considering JJOS. The manuals are not exactly best literature I've seen...
Nah, you're not being a pain in the least! This is working out especially well for me because as I'm being sent to the studio to try this stuff out, I'm also getting little ideas here and there for later experimentation.

And yeah... those manuals are pretty much just Japanese ran through Google Translate, so they're impossible to understand at times.
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#36
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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i didn't explain how i write music, because i won't be writing music with the machine

i explained what i need the machine to do for me in my live set, and, to re-quote myself: "as long as the sequencer has the capability to handle what i want it to, i will figure it out"... i've been making electronic sequencer-based music for almost 20 years - i'll figure out how to transfer my DAW projects over to a hardware setup, no worries there

i'm not just looking for a validation for my decision, because i haven't made a decision. in fact, while i was originally thinking RS7000, now that i've learned RM1x is the same sequencer, and the the RS7000's sampler leaves a lot to be desired, i am leaning towards RM1x + external sampler.... i am also going to look into your Roland MC-80 recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
which says nothing of how you write music. i think you are just looking for validation on your decision - you have discounted other options that i feel are superior to the R7000 and RM1X - and i explained why.

to each their own. best of luck.
#37
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
i didn't explain how i write music, because i won't be writing music with the machine
then just put your show on CD and press play. it will be as interesting i think.
Oli
#38
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Aren't there also some other options from Roland for this sort of thing? MC-808, MC-909 etc? Does anyone know this range well?
#39
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli View Post
Aren't there also some other options from Roland for this sort of thing? MC-808, MC-909 etc? Does anyone know this range well?
he doesn't want to write music, just play back MIDI sequences. the MegaCrap stuff is all about the internal sounds.
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#40
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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midi playback / song mode style on some songs (where i will be busy playing live synth and performing live vocals), and on other songs mute/unmute improv style.... i make and perform both synthpop songs, which are pre-arranged, and more track-oriented electro/acid/techno, which can be improvised.... and i play them both within the same set....

even on those songs where i just press play on the sequencer, a CD wouldn't be a suitable because i need my vocoder-carrier sequenced, and additionally i will be tweaking some sequenced synths

i really don't feel like you've read my posts. if you have, you certainly haven't understood me. you keep wanting to challenge me and i haven't the faintest clue why. my questions have been answered, thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
then just put your show on CD and press play. it will be as interesting i think.
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#41
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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thanks for speaking on my behalf. you totally get me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
he doesn't want to write music, just play back MIDI sequences. the MegaCrap stuff is all about the internal sounds.
#42
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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I had an RS7000 for years and I think it would be very well suited to what you want to accomplish.

One thing I really liked about the sampler on the RS7000 that I don't think has been touched upon here is that you can use it like a digital multitrack recorder (it's called KIT+NOTE mode in Yamaha samplerspeak).

Basically, it lets you record audio during song playback, and it remembers where the audio is in the song by placing a MIDI note at that point, sustaining it for the duration of the recorded sample. It's a similar method to how you can "trick" Reason into supporting audio by loading NN-19's with audio phrases triggered by MIDI notes.

Here is a blurb about this from the manual, which may or may not make things clearer for you:

When the KIT+NOTE sampling type is selected, the recorded sample is not only saved as a sample voice, but the note data required to play the sample back is automatically created as well.

For example, if a vocal sample is recorded while listening to playback of other tracks, the recorded sample will be played back exactly as it was recorded in relation to the other tracks — just like a multitrack recorder. Since what was actually recorded was the vocal sample and the note data required for playback, the data can be edited later to modify the sample and the way it plays back in a variety of ways.



I'm not familiar with your approach to live stuff, but I am very familiar with your musical output (as well as most of the Suction catalog) and I think that either the RS7000 or RM1x would work well for you in a live situation. You could use the "multi-track" feature I mentioned to provide further audio backing in the form of 8-16 bar loops.

I've used all kind of hardware sequencers in the past, Q-80's, MMT-8s, MCs, Ensoniq, Akai, etc...to me the Yamaha sequencers are the most difficult to wrap your head around (manual REQUIRED), but very very powerful.

Good luck with your sequencer quest!
#43
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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i used a kawai q80ex + yamaha ry20 drum machine combo for years triggering a sampler and a bunch of analog synths, barebones and lots of fun. the q80 can handle entire songs but i used it more as a loop sequencer, 4 x 16 mutable tracks, (each track can be different lengths!) then the ry20 for main drums and fills. i got an rm1x later on but actually preferred the q80 + ry20 combo. q80 is now for sale
#44
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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heya Jason, hope yr well man!

what i do is similar to what you describe. i do all of my sequencing on the computer or with hardware sequencers in the studio, and then i re-create everything on a sampler for live use. the way i do it for my "solo" stuff, is i run two of the korg electribe jobbers. i load all of my drum sounds onto an ESX-1 (using a card, not sampling with the audio inputs of the unit) and then use it strictly as a drum module (but i don't do any of the sequencing on that unit), and then i use a an EMX-1 as the sequencer (with no audio out, only midi), to sequence the drums on the esx, as well as all the synth parts (in my case, two voyagers, and an sh-1 and an sh-101 via mpu-101), and then i have a couple other synths (rogue and mg-1) up there to play lead parts/noise/whatever. i don't do much poly stuff at all, but for the few poly parts i do have, i just sample those phrases and load them onto the ESX-1. it is very very easy to sequence, and very easy to switch between song mode and pattern mode on the fly.
here is a pic of the setup:
#45
22nd February 2010
Old 22nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
thanks for speaking on my behalf. you totally get me.
i just told him what you had already stated - you aren't writing music with the sequencer, just playing MIDI files back. the MC's don't do that.
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#46
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #46
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Does anyone know a fair price for an RS7000? I might look into buying one this year. So far I like the look of the sequencer.

Cheers,

Oli
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#47
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikseven View Post
heya Jason, hope yr well man!
hey nik, good to see you on here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikseven View Post
what i do is similar to what you describe.
well, plus, you've seen me live a few times, so you know what i do... but i want to add more acid/improv "track" type stuff to my set

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikseven View Post
i do all of my sequencing on the computer or with hardware sequencers in the studio, and then i re-create everything on a sampler for live use. the way i do it for my "solo" stuff, is i run two of the korg electribe jobbers. i load all of my drum sounds onto an ESX-1 (using a card, not sampling with the audio inputs of the unit) and then use it strictly as a drum module (but i don't do any of the sequencing on that unit), and then i use a an EMX-1 as the sequencer (with no audio out, only midi)
interesting... i didn't think that the Electribes could do song-mode stuff, i thought they were just pure loop/X0X type machines

i'm curious... what is your reason for designating 1 box to sounds-only and 1 to sequencing-only? you worry that having 1 box do both would be crash-prone? or is it just that the EMX has a better sequencer and ESX sounds better? i really don't know much about those boxes, but they'd be ideal if i can make them work, seeing as they're so small/light and cheap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikseven View Post
(in my case, two voyagers, and an sh-1 and an sh-101 via mpu-101), and then i have a couple other synths (rogue and mg-1) up there to play lead parts/noise/whatever. i don't do much poly stuff at all, but for the few poly parts i do have, i just sample those phrases and load them onto the ESX-1. it is very very easy to sequence, and very easy to switch between song mode and pattern mode on the fly.
here is a pic of the setup:
man you bring out a crazy amount of gear! i wish that was feasible for me, but travelling around by myself means i have to try to get things as compact and light as possible

hey BTW are you now sequencing your vocoder-carrier or do you still play that live on a keyboard?

thx

jason
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#48
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silent5 View Post
I had an RS7000 for years and I think it would be very well suited to what you want to accomplish.

One thing I really liked about the sampler on the RS7000 that I don't think has been touched upon here is that you can use it like a digital multitrack recorder (it's called KIT+NOTE mode in Yamaha samplerspeak).

Basically, it lets you record audio during song playback, and it remembers where the audio is in the song by placing a MIDI note at that point, sustaining it for the duration of the recorded sample. It's a similar method to how you can "trick" Reason into supporting audio by loading NN-19's with audio phrases triggered by MIDI notes.
that is useful for me, and good to know... thanks for that info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silent5 View Post
I'm not familiar with your approach to live stuff, but I am very familiar with your musical output (as well as most of the Suction catalog) and I think that either the RS7000 or RM1x would work well for you in a live situation. You could use the "multi-track" feature I mentioned to provide further audio backing in the form of 8-16 bar loops.

I've used all kind of hardware sequencers in the past, Q-80's, MMT-8s, MCs, Ensoniq, Akai, etc...to me the Yamaha sequencers are the most difficult to wrap your head around (manual REQUIRED), but very very powerful.

Good luck with your sequencer quest!
this info helps a lot, thanks!

jason
#49
23rd February 2010
Old 23rd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
interesting... i didn't think that the Electribes could do song-mode stuff, i thought they were just pure loop/X0X type machines
oh yeah, they most definitely do song mode. the "pattern play" mode is really good for the more on-the-fly performances too, very easy to switch patterns, add parts or notes to sequences, mute/un-mute stuff as you go, it's a very good live tool. overall the electribes are really really intutive and easy to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
i'm curious... what is your reason for designating 1 box to sounds-only and 1 to sequencing-only? you worry that having 1 box do both would be crash-prone? or is it just that the EMX has a better sequencer and ESX sounds better? i really don't know much about those boxes, but they'd be ideal if i can make them work, seeing as they're so small/light and cheap!
essentially it's because the sequencer on the blue electribe can handle more parts (9 voice drum sequencer plus 5 synth parts), but it can't sample (it just uses it's own samples and internal synth engine, which i am uninterested in using), while the red electribe samples (and is very easy to load samples onto using a somewhat obsolete smartmedia card) but can't sequence as many synths parts. i need to use my own drum sounds, but i want to have all the sequencing coming off of one machine, so i load up the red one with samples (i basically have it set up so that i switch patterns on the red one just to load whatever kit i have built for a particular song), and just use it as a module sequenced by the blue guy, whcih is also sending midi sequences out to the synths. the synths parts are all mono, that sequencer doesn't really do poly (aside from the drum sequencer section), so if you need to be able to sequence poly stuff, it might not be the best choice.

that's how i do things for my solo stuff as The Paronomasiac. for the band stuff i just use the red electribe, since i don't need to sequence as many synth parts. i just sequence the two voyagers, and send midi clock over to lyle for his FutureRetro Revolution / Eurorack / Mono Poly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
man you bring out a crazy amount of gear! i wish that was feasible for me, but travelling around by myself means i have to try to get things as compact and light as possible
yeah, it's a real back breaker. it's really important to me to have all the stuff there, but man do i ever hate hauling it around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s o l v e n t View Post
hey BTW are you now sequencing your vocoder-carrier or do you still play that live on a keyboard?
still playing it live. these days i'm using a JX-8P as the carrier into an SVC-350.
#50
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Does the RS7000 and the RM1x have the same sounds? I looked at the sound lists for both and the names are exactly the same. However the difference is that when the list of RM1x sounds stops, the RS7000 has lots more listed in the sounds list, including what looks like a complete new extra bank of synth sounds.


I'm thinking that the RS7000 includes everything the RM1x has and then some. But I'm not sure since I don't have either. Maybe they've got the same patch names but the sounds are different? I'd like to find out.
#51
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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would imagine a fair amount are shared, specially the GM soundbank. the latest rs os included new filters which the rx won't have tho. prob more effects too as a guess?
#52
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLand View Post
Does the RS7000 and the RM1x have the same sounds? I looked at the sound lists for both and the names are exactly the same. However the difference is that when the list of RM1x sounds stops, the RS7000 has lots more listed in the sounds list, including what looks like a complete new extra bank of synth sounds.


I'm thinking that the RS7000 includes everything the RM1x has and then some. But I'm not sure since I don't have either. Maybe they've got the same patch names but the sounds are different? I'd like to find out.
Sounds are "clearer" on the RS7k iirc.

I don't know wether they are better quality samples or it is just circuitry magic, but i think the RS sounds are nicer than the RM1x's.
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#53
1st May 2012
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Are they the exact same sounds/patches though? It appears so.
#54
1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLand View Post
Are they the exact same sounds/patches though? It appears so.
I would imagine that the actual sounds that share names probably are very much alike, even if they had replaced the samples with better quality ones. Which i still have no idea wether they have done.

I hardly used the internal sounds, and if, i did modify them heavily.
Except for the drums, i did use those, and they are definitely clearer sounding on the RS.

Basically, if you want the internal sounds for more than just demoing/fooling around i'd recommend the RS7k over the RM1x.
#55
2nd May 2012
Old 2nd May 2012
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Anyone have recommendations on easy programming of multitrack drum beats? For example, if I'm triggering different drum modules on tracks 9-16 on a 4 measure pattern, I'd like some way of seeing how they look together. On Tempest I'd get this in 'sounds' mode, and in Cubase I'd get this in the drum editor view, but on the RS7K I go into grid edit and kind of just have to keep shifting the current note around. I feel like this is so cumbersome that I have to be doing something wrong...
#56
2nd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
I would imagine that the actual sounds that share names probably are very much alike, even if they had replaced the samples with better quality ones. Which i still have no idea wether they have done.

That's what I'm trying to figure. Anyone here have both and have you done a comparison?
#57
2nd May 2012
Old 2nd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
Basically, if you want the internal sounds for more than just demoing/fooling around i'd recommend the RS7k over the RM1x.
dont know the RM1X, but the RS7000 had a firmware upgrade that added a wider range of filters including parallel with distance parameter...

New filters:from v.1.2 firmware pdf

LPF24A (24dB/oct Analog Low Pass Filter) (New) A digital dynamic low-pass filter with characteristics similar to 4-

pole analog synth filter.

LPF18s (18dB/oct Staggered Low Pass Filter) (New) 3-pole 18dB/oct low-pass filter. This filter has a smoother cutoff

slope than the LPF18 type.

LPF6 (6dB/oct low-pass Filter) (New) 1-pole 6dB/oct low-pass filter. No resonance. This filter is

designed to be used in conjunction with a high-pass filter.

HPF12 (12dB/oct High Pass Filter) (New) 12dB/oct dynamic high-pass filter.

BPFw (Wide Band Pass Filter) (New) A 12dB/oct BPF that combines HPF and LPF filters to allow wider

bandwidth settings.

BPF6 (6dB/oct Band Pass Filter) (New) 6dB/oct band-pass filter.

BEF6 (6dB/oct Band Elimination Filter) (New) 6dB/oct band-elimination filter.

Dual LPF (Dual Low Pass Filter) (New) Two 12dB/oct low-pass filters connected in parallel.

Dual HPF (Dual High Pass Filter) (New) Two 12dB/oct high-pass filters connected in parallel.

Dual BPF (Dual Band Pass Filter) (New) Two 6dB/oct band-pass filters connected in parallel.

Dual BEF (Dual Band Elimination Filter) (New) Two 6dB/oct band-elimination filters connected in serial.

LPF+BPF (Low Pass Filter + Band Pass Filter) (New) A combined low-pass and high-pass filter.
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