Sound Design on the Kurzweil PC3X ??

[steelyfan]

Or interesting instrument combinations rather.

I've been listening to a ton of demo's of the Kurzweil PC3X on the net, and it's either someone playing the preset sounds or a guy just jammin on an organ for 10 minutes. I couldn't find anyone demoing any custom sounds they'd programmed on this thing. Strange bell combinations, a sawtooth synth will a flute and choir voice underneath it, a bass/bell/chime/glass combo....nothing.

Is this machine pretty easy to program your own custom sounds?

In my triton, you can go into combo mode and pick 8 different sounds to play at once . Then, you can change the pitch/octave the tuning / volume / effects / modualtion / etc.. for each sound and hit one note and they'll all play together as one sound. yes, basic stuff. I'm sure this machine is WAY beyond the triton, but honestly, I haven't heard anyone do anything too terribly brilliant with one yet.

I'd love to hear someone's own personalized sounds as I'm considering picking one up soon.....or waiting for the newer model with sampling?

Anyhow, would any owners care to tell me about how they've been getting along with their PC3X ? Can this machine rival any of the classic synths in the in the synthisizer department (sound effects as well as the realistic stuff) ??

Thanks alot, I've only one keyboard and am thinking this guy might be next! The setups seem quite original.


steelyfan

[Kerzwhile]

The PC3X Is actually a Very easy Synth to edit, Thanks to the "finally" Included editor. VAST is Very Complex and extremely powerful synthesis. Out of the Box, Ill be so Bold as to say there is Nothing better on the market at recreating instruments in a "swiss army knife" of a synth!! GET ONE, or wait a month or so and get the PC3K. 128mb of Flash and complete backwards compatibility is Completely worth it! IMO

[bobule]

i would say its not entirely easy but they sound AMAZING. im a long time kurz owner and i really do belive they are the best sounding synths.

[steelyfan]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Kerzwhile

or wait a month or so and get the PC3K. 128mb of Flash and complete backwards compatibility

That's what I'm thinking.
I can't seem to find much info if this is actually going to happen , and if so , when.

I'm very interested in the sampling idea, and also if it will have slots for updating sounds as the unit gets updated. I've spent alot of time reading about the present model and it seems folks would like it to be more user savy on the synth side (like more knobs for real time tweaking). But my fascination stems from the sound of the unit and the ability to stack sounds. Real acoustic sounds stacked with some glitchy synth stuff sounds like a dream machine to me. Kinda anxious to here more.


steelyfan

[steelyfan]

Oh, well a search for the K comes up and I saw a couple of demos of the new model out in a few months.

I was hoping for more owners to chime in a sell me on the idea. It seems that Kurzweil is a bit low key , overshadowed by the usual suspects.

The other thing I'm looking at is the P08. The demos I heard of the Kurzweil were strange, as in they sound just like a finished production sounds. Maybe it's not the engineer but the instrument! But the sounds I heard sounded polished, even the vintage piano sounds sound like they were lifted off a 70's record. pretty cool actually.


steelyfan

[zosthegoatherd]

I would say that for sound design the kurzweils blow that workstations from the big three away. I have a k2000, and have used a few other romplers, from my experience I would say VAST, has the most potential for sound mangling/creation of any of them.

[bobule]

i agree, the kurz sounds are just epic!! i love the fact that most of the sounds seem to be recreating classic records and its just SO PLAYABLE!

[steelyfan]

Hey cool! Thanks for hoppin on guys and sharing your opinions and experiences. After hearing "all" lol... of the youtube demos on the pc3x, unless the new K has alot more to offer than sampling or backwards compatability (I don't have any K files) I'm pretty sure I'm going to get one! I'm thinking a nice condition used one will be fine, and half the price of the new K. I can get the sampling option for my triton.

The Kurzweil seems to be the ticket for wanting some vintage/classic sounds along with some modern stuff and a heavy lean towards sound design. So now I've got my eyes and ears open for a good deal on a used model. Again, I'm into alot of the older sounds on Ennio Morricone's sound track stuff from the early 60's- late 70's and then Tangerine Dream's Logos albulm ...... majestic/enchanting sounds. Hoping the Pc3x will fit the bill.


cheers,

steelyfan

[Kerzwhile]

You will be Extremely pleasantly surprised once you turn on the PC3. Im a Very long time Kurzweil slut, as if you couldn't tell by my stupid screen name, and I must say, when we First got the PC3 in stock, I couldn't stop playing it. I mean, when we got the Oasys in, Sure I was impressed but grew tired very quickly of the sounds. The PC3 was the opposite. The More I played it the more I realized that Kurzweil truly is the best at what it does. IMO of course!

[murphythecat87]

I suppose that kurzweil is more a VA then a wavetable? If so, what VA's have you tried?

Have you tried the Nord's or the access's or Waldorf's or roland's, or korg's?

How can you compare the kurzweil's to those? I never even tried anything done by kurzweil...

which kurzweil keyboard is the most hand on control or which line of product are the best? I know that k2000's were kind of special...

Originally Posted by Kerzwhile

You will be Extremely pleasantly surprised once you turn on the PC3. Im a Very long time Kurzweil slut, as if you couldn't tell by my stupid screen name, and I must say, when we First got the PC3 in stock, I couldn't stop playing it. I mean, when we got the Oasys in, Sure I was impressed but grew tired very quickly of the sounds. The PC3 was the opposite. The More I played it the more I realized that Kurzweil truly is the best at what it does. IMO of course!

I have heard those demos, and I agree, the sound fell finished
I'm curious about kurzweils synth, and kurzweil is quite the underdog I guess.

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Oh,

I was hoping for more owners to chime in a sell me on the idea. It seems that Kurzweil is a bit low key , overshadowed by the usual suspects.

But the sounds I heard sounded polished, even the vintage piano sounds sound like they were lifted off a 70's record. pretty cool actually.


steelyfan

[kilon]

Nope its definetely not easy to program.

Its most difficult in all workstations.

But make no mistake, people buy kurzweils because they want a powerful engine to build unique demanding sounds.

You should be able to find alot of examples in the vast forum.

Its not impossible to programm, just in some areas lack good organisation. And you wont dream to do anything without reading the manual first.

Its a kind of synth that can takes years to master but once you do, well there wont be a sound that you wont be able to make.

Also pc3x is a new synth, Kurzweil has the habit of providing good updates, those updates dont only update the sound engine but also the presets themselves. And because VAST engine is quite old, you will find alot of information about making your own sounds in the forums.

Mastering V.A.S.T - Index

But in any case, good sounds depend 90% on the user, so it will be totally up to you if you can exploit even a 50% of the pc3x potetial as 100% even in 10 years seems unrealistic.

Do the math. 32 layers with 2000 available waveform , mean that you will have to multiple 2000 with itself 32 times!!! And that only the possible combination of the onboard waveforms. Only a mere 10% of VASTs engine.

that alone if my math are correct is

8.589.934.592.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 possible combinations!!! That should be enough no...?


now multiple all these (again with itself) with the thousands of combination allowed by the VAST modular engine. Even if you live 1.000.000.000 years you wont be able to fully exploit all the possible sounds.

And we have not even taken into account the VA engine.

So its NOT a question if it is possible to make a specific sound with PC3x, because as you see its entirely possible . The question if you will bale to do it, because a synth can never teach you how to sound deisgn, that something you have to learn yourself.

[steelyfan]

Originally Posted by Kerzwhile

You will be Extremely pleasantly surprised once you turn on the PC3. Im a Very long time Kurzweil slut, as if you couldn't tell by my stupid screen name, and I must say, when we First got the PC3 in stock, I couldn't stop playing it. I mean, when we got the Oasys in, Sure I was impressed but grew tired very quickly of the sounds. The PC3 was the opposite. The More I played it the more I realized that Kurzweil truly is the best at what it does. IMO of course!

Hey Kerzwhile, is it true you can combine 32 sounds together?
Someone somewhere had mentioned that you can't blend instruments together to customize your own sounds, but that doesn't seem right.
Maybe he meant synth sounds with sampled sounds?? But still. ???

Also, can you get close to some of the sounds in a prophet 5?

I'm looking for cool bells, pads, flutes, nice Ep's and a KILLER synth!
.......would you say the pc3x lives up to these sounds?


Thanks for the info!


steelyfan

[kilon]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Hey Kerzwhile, is it true you can combine 32 sounds together?
steelyfan

yes ....

see my previous post.

no it does not sound like an analogue, only an analogue sounds like an analogue. But yes you can come close.

[steelyfan]

Originally Posted by kilon

Nope its definetely not easy to program.

Its most difficult in all workstations.

But make no mistake, people buy kurzweils because they want a powerful engine to build unique demanding sounds.

You should be able to find alot of examples in the vast forum.

Its not impossible to programm, just in some areas lack good organisation. And you wont dream to do anything without reading the manual first.

Its a kind of synth that can takes years to master but once you do, well there wont be a sound that you wont be able to make.

Also pc3x is a new synth, Kurzweil has the habit of providing good updates, those updates dont only update the sound engine but also the presets themselves. And because VAST engine is quite old, you will find alot of information about making your own sounds in the forums.

Mastering V.A.S.T - Index

But in any case, good sounds depend 90% on the user, so it will be totally up to you if you can exploit even a 50% of the pc3x potetial as 100% even in 10 years seems unrealistic.

Do the math. 32 layers with 2000 available waveform , mean that you will have to multiple 2000 with itself 32 times!!! And that only the possible combination of the onboard waveforms. Only a mere 10% of VASTs engine.

now multiple all these with the thousands of combination allow by the VAST modular engine. We are not talking about million of sounds, not billion, not trillion, not even gazillion... even if you live 1.000.000 years you wont be able to fully exploit it.

And we have not even taken into account the VA engine.

So its now a question if it is possible to make a specific sound with PC3x, because as you see its entirely possible . The question if you will bale to do it, because a synth can never teach you how to sound deisgn, that something you have to learn yourself.

Hi Kilon, looks like we were typing at the same time.

So, are you holding out for the newer model with sampling? I'm wondering how much more awesome a sampling option would make the pc3x? It seems the newer model is going to be around $3400-$3700, and a used pc3x can be had for a little under $2000. Do you see the sampling option and usb/wave loading function worth the extra $$?

Thanks for the info up above btw.



steelyfan

[kilon]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Hi Kilon, looks like we were typing at the same time.

So, are you holding out for the newer model with sampling? I'm wondering how much more awesome a sampling option would make the pc3x? It seems the newer model is going to be around $3400-$3700, and a used pc3x can be had for a little under $2000. Do you see the sampling option and usb/wave loading function worth the extra $$?

Thanks for the info up above btw.



steelyfan

Well at least here in europe, pc3x costs 2200 euros. With the sampler should be 300 euros more.

I think it does worth it.

Personally

I LOOOOOOVEEEEEE hardware

does it worth spending all that money , instead of going all software?

NOPE

but i just love it.

So even if I use the sampler once a year , I am still getting it. But I am not in any hurry.

I dont expect the new pc3x any sooner that September in my country and my Andromeda leeches my free time , like a Wormhole.

[steelyfan]

Originally Posted by kilon

Well at least here in europe, pc3x costs 2200 euros. With the sampler should be 300 euros more.

I think it does worth it.

Personally

I LOOOOOOVEEEEEE hardware

does it worth spending all that money , instead of going all software?

NOPE

but i just love it.

So even if I use the sampler once a year , I am still getting it. But I am not in any hurry.

I dont expect the new pc3x any sooner that September in my country and my Andromeda leeches my free time , like a Wormhole.

Lucky guy owning an A6!
I don't use software and never will again.......boring.
I'm curious if you can load a song from a wave file into the new pc3k, and then work on top of it from there? I'm excited about the idea of processing external sounds with this machine.........patience.


steelyfan

[kilon]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Lucky guy owning an A6!
I don't use software and never will again.......boring.
I'm curious if you can load a song from a wave file into the new pc3k, and then work on top of it from there? I'm excited about the idea of processing external sounds with this machine.........patience.


steelyfan

pc3x has no sampler, but the new pc3 with the sampler will do what you want.

With my motif , i can record external audio, loop it, or use it as an instrument, or chop it in small pieces and assign it to keys automatically (very useful for drum loops) , or process it and resample it (eq, reverb, distortion, ring modulation, fade in or out etc.). All these tecniques are pretty standard for workstation with samplers.

You can do pretty mch what you can with an audio software editor with the added advantages that some jobs are automated, which is very cool.

[Rozzer]

Buried in the other Kurzweil thread, can't be arsed retyping here:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5118777-post50.html

[analogaddict]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Hey Kerzwhile, is it true you can combine 32 sounds together?

Actually, per patch, yes, it's entirely possible - depending on your programming. The more resources you use, the less layers you have left.

Originally Posted by steelyfan

Also, can you get close to some of the sounds in a prophet 5?

I have a very nice "In The Air Tonight"-pad, and you can approximate many analog sounds. Still, nothimg sounds quite like a vintage P5. The only VA synth I think sounds really good in the P5 department is the Creamware Profit-5 (which you can run in the Noah rack module).

[drone007]

just wanna chime in a comment on the fact that ive had my pc3x for about a year and have yet to make more than 3 programs... i've been that happy and busy playing the stock prgrams/setups to make my own.

the programming with the keyboard itself is very tedious, high initial learning curve, but everytime i get on it, obviously things get a little easier. the PC based editor is very handy tho...

SoundClick artist: Brian Mirsch - page with MP3 music downloads

music there is an example of the first time my piano teacher sat down and played the pc3x. just beautiful sounds... not mixed on those tunes, simply DI'd right from the pc3x into my allen and heath mixer and recorded...

[steelyfan]

After months of research.....

Should be here monday, and I'm very excited to hear this machine in action! I'm also starting piano lessons in a few weeks so I hope the key action on the Kurz is inspiring to play on, I know I'll love the sounds.

I'm trying to finish up some random projects and put the finishing touches on them, I then want to try and revolve my next project around the sound of the Kurz. This will require changing my drum sound to sit in the mix with how the Kurz sounds. Bass guitar and electric are never difficult to get dialed in, but I've been so happy with my drum sounds, I'm sorta scared to change it up..........but a new sound requires new techniques I guess......... I'm movin on.

Any owners installed the latest 1.35 OS? I'm curious what to expect with this new OS, as in new sounds/programs/features, etc...

cheers
Steelyfan

[kilon]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

After months of research.....

Should be here monday, and I'm very excited to hear this machine in action! I'm also starting piano lessons in a few weeks so I hope the key action on the Kurz is inspiring to play on, I know I'll love the sounds.

I'm trying to finish up some random projects and put the finishing touches on them, I then want to try and revolve my next project around the sound of the Kurz. This will require changing my drum sound to sit in the mix with how the Kurz sounds. Bass guitar and electric are never difficult to get dialed in, but I've been so happy with my drum sounds, I'm sorta scared to change it up..........but a new sound requires new techniques I guess......... I'm movin on.

Any owners installed the latest 1.35 OS? I'm curious what to expect with this new OS, as in new sounds/programs/features, etc...

cheers
Steelyfan

congrats on your purchase , I am sure you will not regret and you are going to love this synth.

Dont forget to post youtube videos with your experience.

[DayglowScarecrow]

Originally Posted by steelyfan

After months of research.....

first off, i'd like to say congrats. i think that you will enjoy this keyboard. based on some of the things that you've mentioned in this thread and others, and from hearing the music on your myspace page, i think this keyboard will be a good fit for you. i think that you're going to be pleased.

there are lots of readily available sounds to use and if you decide to roll your own, it has a very deep engine to allow you to do that. it's not a challenging synth to program. it has a learning curve, like any synth, but that learning curve isn't very steep.

i can't comment on the latest OS as i haven't upgraded to it yet.

[steelyfan]

Thanks alot guys!

Let me just say...... wow. It arrived Tuesday.

The machine has exceeded my expectations already! After only a few hours of running through the presets and loving the feel of the machine I can say I already just adore it. One of the things I was most impressed with is the functionality of the 9 drawbars for the synths and EP sounds (I'm sure with all sounds). When going through the synth and EP sounds I'd find something I liked and wanted to work with, and having the filters, e.q., amount of effects, etc. linked to the drawbars let me customize my sound FAST and really tweak what I wanted on the fly. GREAT! This also worked for drum sounds, you can e.q. the sound or control the volume for kick/snare/hats from the bars, no internal menus for basic e.q and filtering needed.... THANK YOU. This hands on feel gives the PC3 a CLASSIC feel, which I have come to already realize it will become..... a classic machine.

SOUNDS:

Good grief...... just beautiful, I mean it. This machine charmed me to death for 3 hours straight after I pushed the "on" button. After getting a basic feel for how you select sounds and banks, I went straight through the presets one after the other. I didn't get to all of them due to getting lost in quite a many of them playing and tweaking as I went.

The pianos' sound great! I'm not a pianist and am NOT a piano sound snob (I'll save that for the EP's and synths) but there are PLENTY of great sounding piano's in the PC3, all with there own vibe and room sound. Wonderful. Orchestral and strings speak for themselves, just bloody brilliant sounding. Love them, top shelf.

A main concern was the synth and EP sounds as I was expecting that alot of the old school
sounds from the K series that blew my mind (from audio demo's on Youtube) would NOW be drenched in fancy verbs and over the top DSP JUST because the PC3 CAN.... NOT TRUE. These sounds are freakin FANTASTIC! I mean just really thought out and done with alot of taste. The ability to use the drawbars for the amount of effect send and for filtering lets you get what you want FAST. The sounds were VERY warm with some classic along with some pleasantly origial ones. This goes for both Ep and synth sounds, the grit and overdrive used for these was just done correctly. THANK YOU! Top shelf.

The mellotron's had my mouth watering after I picked it up off the floor, nice and grainy and tapey and saturated. Kickass. The drawbars do wonders here.

The bass sounds are many. Damn near everything is represented. What REALLY took me in though was this one simple bass sound I found with very little effect on it. It had very little lowend and a nice subtle buzz/modulation to it that reminded me of the old way they use to make sounds from scratch at the BBC sound design center by recording a sound and changing it's pitch and octave and then layering another sound over it by cutting and pasting tape. Probally the least impressive to other ears, but this litle bass sound has my laughing outloud, it was just that groovy. WELL DONE> and again, great taste.

I didn't get a chance to hear everything, but I thought the acoustic guitars were cool sounding and the the human voices seem to have potential. Haven't heard enough of the other sounds to justify an opinion yet (electric guitars, flutes, drums , precussion , etc.)

Spent a little time in the setups. In a short time I managed to learn how to customize a sound that was blowing my mind! However, when I tried to save it, something happened and I got returned back to the original setup unalterted and couldn't find my new and "improved" version of it. User error I'm sure, a newbie misunderstanding no doubt.
One thing that I haven't gotten my head around yet is that it seems every setup or program maybe default to the same arp pattern? I'm used to selecting a program or combination on my Korg Triton and that selection always has differnt patterns assigned to new sounds and combinstions, so if you like the arp pattern you just change the instrument you want to play that pattern while you're hearing what the arp is doing. Also I didn't undertand why I couldn't turn OFF the arp when on certain setups, pushing the red light arp button wouldn't turn it off. ??

Getting long winded here so I'll finish up.

SUMMARY:
I can already tell that the PC3 is a dream machine for me and is what turns me on about sound! Having spent time with alot of music makers and around lots of synths and home studios I can tell you that the short time I've spent with my new Kuzweil.... the PC3 is a VERY special machine. If I could have it my way, I'd wish that the future expansion slots would be choked full with new synth sounds and new setups because I found them very original for building song ideas from and they were done tastefully.
I haven't spent enough time with the PC3 to feel there aren't enough already of these, I'd just like to see more of that than more piano sounds, just for my taste.
Although with it's sound design capabilities, I feel that the sky's the limit.

The PC3 is LOADED with plenty of charming sounds and really does have a sophistication of it's own design. I feel like I've aquired a machine that actually lives up to all it's well deserved hype, and that's pretty rare. After only 3 hours of play time with the PC3 I felt honored to own one and was left with a heavy haze of enchantment and the desire to create music. A very poetic machine. kick ass!

Brilliant work Kurzweil.

steelyfan

[bobule]

wicked im glad you finally got one, i feared you would talk yourself out of it!! the pc3 really is for playing, it FEELS like an instrument, not a plasticy synth.

and dynamic vast is such an improvement, the VA oscillators and filter sound fantastic its just a bit of a bitch to master!

enjoy!

[efflux]

I just got a PC3X.

Went to a shop to simply get a decent master keyboard controller. Sadly most of them are cheap rubbish. Tried the Kurz and that was it, I was hooked. Never though I'd ever get a machine like this. I even went back three times to double check if my ears were deceiving me before I finally bought. I'm not even really a keyboard player but a guitarist. However, the Kurz is simply beautiful sounding. I do not generally like digital stuff but the Kurz is not like other digital keyboards. It's lush sounding and inspirational to play.

[Blackbelt Jones]

Congrats! I (hppe) I can hold out for a PC3K7 myself. I love the added features and I am a sucker for wooden end bells. Once I get a real ETA from Sweetwater I will make my mind up... if it is going to be months and months, I might just break down and get the PC3.

Have fun w/ your new Kurz!

[gr8ape]

omg i am gassing like ****ing crazy

but I want to know

are sample libraries and players better than the (acoustic) sounds of the pc3x?

for instance strings, how does the kurz's string compare to a good library

[efflux]

I can't give too much of a comparison with computer sampler banks. I have tried a few but was never hugely impressed. I do have an old EMU Ultra here which has some character that the software samplers still don't have.

I've only been playing with the PC3X for a day so I'm not deep into it.

You can get many realistic sounds from the Kurz, especially if you play carefully in a style that suits whatever instrument preset you are using and utilise aftertouch, mod wheel, etc.

However, my opinion is not so much that the sounds are super realistic but just that they are beautifully crafted and sound rich and musical. You just get lost in this instrument and I'm not even a keyboard player. I've just got used to messing with keys now and again. I do have MIDI guitar so I might try running that through the Kurz.

You can fly through hundreds of completely usable presets. Not quite so convenient with (unnecessarily) giant software banks.

The keys are very nice. Just the right level of weight without being too piano like which might not be so good with other instrument presets.

It is very well built. Looks like it could take a lot of beating.

This machine is an instrument. This is the key point in my opinion. Lots of machines just don't feel like instruments. You switch it on, start playing and get lost for hours. I tried other keyboards by Yamaha, Korg etc but they did not inspire me the way the Kurz does. Like I said before, I actually didn't even have any intention of buying a keyboard for it's own sounds. I just wanted a good master keyboard. This is how good the Kurz is. It forced me to buy when I didn't even intend to.

[wildstar]

Originally Posted by gr8ape

are sample libraries and players better than the (acoustic) sounds of the pc3x?

for instance strings, how does the kurz's string compare to a good library

Any good virtual instrument / sample library will offer more variations, more detail, more everything. But Kurzweil can hang with the big boys like Vienna and Miroslav without shame. I haven't heard or used a virtual instrument that will "blow away" a Kurzweil PC3-series synth. They sound fantastic.

If you're doing an full-on orchestral film score, or music with solo parts, or music that will be front and center in a mix, the Kurzweil might not get you all the way there. Or maybe it will!

You might find this interesting. One of the main reasons I bought my PC363 was so that I could do the early stages of scoring without loading up lots of virtual instruments. My idea was to use the Kurzweil to quickly create arrangements and work out ideas without latency issues, or loading up and setting up lots of parts in a virtual instrument, or burning up CPU bandwidth.

Then I thought that before mixing I would re-map the Kurzweil parts to big sample library virtual instruments, track the orchestral/acoustic parts, and mix.

Guess how many times I've remapped and used virtual instruments to replace the Kurzweil sounds.

Zero. 0. Never.

In context, I've found the Kurzweil just works and I've never felt that I needed to replace it. YMMV of course. That's just for the music and projects I work on (documentaries.) Hope that's helpful.