vocal delay and doubling

mullet · 8th January 2010

Is doubling the same as a subtle delay?

I've used a preset with the lexicon PSP42 called doubler, and was wondering if I need to add a delay as well..

kazper · 8th January 2010

Just double the track and move it off a few cents.... More delay well then just move more cents

xmlguy · 9th January 2010

Vocal processors do a lot more than delay for doubling, although that is one important element, but pitch modulation and other effects are used too. Here's a brief tour of the TC Helicon VoiceTone Doubler, which is their entry-level doubler:

More sophisticated doubling is done on their advanced vocal processors, such as the VoiceWorks and Voice Live 2, such as vocal modeling for each voice to change the timbres of each voice layer of doubling/harmony.

Adding a short delay is good to do though, if that's all you've got to work with. As I recall, around 20ms delay thickens vocals pretty well.

mullet · 11th January 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmlguy

Adding a short delay is good to do though, if that's all you've got to work with. As I recall, around 20ms delay thickens vocals pretty well.

Yes the PSP42 doubler preset is 20 ms of delay.. My only problem is that because I've doubled the exact same vocal sample, I think I'm getting some phasing issues.. How do I get around that?

xmlguy · 11th January 2010

Just slightly increase or decrease the delay. It doesn't take much to get rid of phase cancellation, since the signal has to be closely synced for it to occur at all. Adjusting by a millisecond or two is too little to hear the difference in the delay, but enough to disrupt the sync if the delay happens to be near 180deg out of phase (or 0 deg in phase) with the original.

peter_martin · 12th January 2010

If possible get the vocal re tracked? Having the slight variations in both pitch and performance (time) are what these doublers are 'emulating'. Its a good philosophy that at the core fundamental all these devices are emulating a second performance in a most convincing for really good sounding manner at times.

Always sounds better IE more natural doing it re tracked.

Though sometimes it just not possible so go with the suggestion above of playing with the delay time.

mullet · 13th January 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_martin

If possible get the vocal re tracked? Having the slight variations in both pitch and performance (time) are what these doublers are 'emulating'. Its a good philosophy that at the core fundamental all these devices are emulating a second performance in a most convincing for really good sounding manner at times.

Always sounds better IE more natural doing it re tracked.

Though sometimes it just not possible so go with the suggestion above of playing with the delay time.

Its a vocal sample..

msl · 13th January 2010

If your on mac this plug in does a nice simulation of the classic Abby Road/Beatles vocal effect. Vacuumsound ADT

If its a vocal I'm recording I always take multiple takes and use on of those as the double, much more interesting and "alive" sounding that way.

.

8th January 2010	#1
mullet Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 528 Thread Starter	vocal delay and doubling Is doubling the same as a subtle delay? I've used a preset with the lexicon PSP42 called doubler, and was wondering if I need to add a delay as well..

13th January 2010	#8
msl Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 3,659 1 Review written	If your on mac this plug in does a nice simulation of the classic Abby Road/Beatles vocal effect. Vacuumsound ADT If its a vocal I'm recording I always take multiple takes and use on of those as the double, much more interesting and "alive" sounding that way. . __________________ "It's like a throbbing jellyfish of low end" Joseph Micolo New remixes out now Erik Tronik & Secret Groovers - Test Model (Michael Lovatt Remix) Ricky Sinz - Oh You (Michael Lovatt's More Wood Remix) Latest releases here & here

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8th January 2010	#2
kazper Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Seattle WA Suburbs Posts: 898	Just double the track and move it off a few cents.... More delay well then just move more cents

9th January 2010	#3
xmlguy Gear Head Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 65	Vocal processors do a lot more than delay for doubling, although that is one important element, but pitch modulation and other effects are used too. Here's a brief tour of the TC Helicon VoiceTone Doubler, which is their entry-level doubler: More sophisticated doubling is done on their advanced vocal processors, such as the VoiceWorks and Voice Live 2, such as vocal modeling for each voice to change the timbres of each voice layer of doubling/harmony. Adding a short delay is good to do though, if that's all you've got to work with. As I recall, around 20ms delay thickens vocals pretty well.

11th January 2010	#5
xmlguy Gear Head Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 65	Just slightly increase or decrease the delay. It doesn't take much to get rid of phase cancellation, since the signal has to be closely synced for it to occur at all. Adjusting by a millisecond or two is too little to hear the difference in the delay, but enough to disrupt the sync if the delay happens to be near 180deg out of phase (or 0 deg in phase) with the original.

12th January 2010	#6
peter_martin Lives for gear Joined: May 2009 Location: Somewhere in Texas Posts: 585	If possible get the vocal re tracked? Having the slight variations in both pitch and performance (time) are what these doublers are 'emulating'. Its a good philosophy that at the core fundamental all these devices are emulating a second performance in a most convincing for really good sounding manner at times. Always sounds better IE more natural doing it re tracked. Though sometimes it just not possible so go with the suggestion above of playing with the delay time.