Virus A vs B vs C vs TI -- SOUND

[energizer bunny]

Originally Posted by PhaseLinear

One other thing is, on TI, the plugin thingy sounds different than the main analog outs. I know there is a difference of ad-da conversion. You expect the plugin to sound better but for me the main analog outs sound much fuller than the plugin.

Thats very true. The main analog outs are where its at on my Polar. The sound is big and full on, and the USB plugin out is purely for composition. I bought 2 balanced Monster cables to record the analog outs into the Orpheus. That sounds wicked.

[PhaseLinear]

Yeah that 8 ball thing is true as well. If u look desperately for a "super star " sound you will Find it in Virus.

[ttown23]

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Thats very true. The main analog outs are where its at on my Polar. The sound is big and full on, and the USB plugin out is purely for composition. I bought 2 balanced Monster cables to record the analog outs into the Orpheus. That sounds wicked.

Interesting. I just got a Ti2 and was wondering if I could do my sound editing through the plugin but still record through the outputs?

[Psychlist1972]

I had a Virus A and just couldn't get into it. It sounded ok, but didn't excite or inspire me -- I was looking for more spacy and ambient sounds. Don't get me wrong, it's a good synth with good sound, it just didn't do it for me.

I have a used Snow from ebay coming that I think will be a better fit for me from all the demos I've heard. I wanted knobby, but couldn't pass up the price. IMHO, the TIs aren't really pretending to be analogs, so (at least in my head) I'm not comparing them to analog.

Oh, and I like to get new stuff :D

[energizer bunny]

Originally Posted by ttown23

Interesting. I just got a Ti2 and was wondering if I could do my sound editing through the plugin but still record through the outputs?

Yes you can ttown. I havent messed with the output section of the plugin editor in a long time, but I do remember that you can set the output to be either digital or analog no problem.

[boreg]

Originally Posted by ttown23

Interesting. I just got a Ti2 and was wondering if I could do my sound editing through the plugin but still record through the outputs?

It is possible, but IIRC the analog outputs are not latency-compensated (meaning, the audio will be out of time in relation to other tracks in your DAW).

[ttown23]

^^^^
Ahhh I see. Well that's a bit of an issue for folks like me who have a wealth of outboard gear for processing. I always record from the analog outs so that I can sweeten up the sound. It's not a deal-breaker, though, because this thing has enough knobs on it to where I can just program it from the front panel.

However, it's something that Access should think about addressing in a future OS update for sure!

[Steve Morley]

I've owned the A, B, Ti and Ti snow at some stage and played a lot in a friends studio with the C. After the experiences for some reason I love the A and B, find the C okish and just don't like the Ti series that much. It seems to be lacking in sound (not enough balls??) and don't even get me started on the issues with outputs, midi and latency. It pushed me both times to just sell them and not have to put up with it!
I might just get a B back at some stage

[JimmiG]

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Thats very true. The main analog outs are where its at on my Polar. The sound is big and full on, and the USB plugin out is purely for composition. I bought 2 balanced Monster cables to record the analog outs into the Orpheus. That sounds wicked.

USB out is the "pure" sound of the synth. If there's a big difference between that and the analog outs, the DACs in the Virus (or the inputs of your audio interface) must be terrible and really color the sound badly.

Keep in mind that the USB outputs are much quieter than the analog outputs which can make the analog outs sound "fuller". It's easy to mistake volume for presence.

[jaytranzmit]

Slightly off topic. The Indigo was such a great looking synth, modern with a touch of classic design.

Never owned the A although demo'd it loads as was set on buying it and then the B was released. The A definitely sounded different. I preferred owning the B to the C, not sure what it was. The C had an annoying bug with EQ section on certain settings where there was an audible click once the note had ended.

The Ti is a huge step along from these. Given the choice I would say B & Ti

[boreg]

Originally Posted by JimmiG

USB out is the "pure" sound of the synth. If there's a big difference between that and the analog outs, the DACs in the Virus (or the inputs of your audio interface) must be terrible and really color the sound badly.

Could be the exact opposite - the DACs in the Virus are great and color the sound in a pleasant way.

Also, USB out is 16 bit only. For me, this is not a big deal, but some people can hear a difference between 16 bit and 24 bit audio.

[supersuper]

Originally Posted by boreg

Could be the exact opposite - the DACs in the Virus are great and color the sound in a pleasant way.

Also, USB out is 16 bit only. For me, this is not a big deal, but some people can hear a difference between 16 bit and 24 bit audio.

The whole 16 bit versus 24 bit thing has always been a red herring to me. How many great records have been done in 16bit and the majority of music media in the world has been produced at or truncated to 16 bit before reaching our ears.

[kraze]

24 bit isn't about that. 16 bit are enough - for a finalized sound.
It's about giving more headroom to stuff you record and master.

Meaning 16 bit has only 65k "gradients" of "loudness" so you must record louder than with 24 bit to keep the same sound detail.

With 24 bit you can work with much lower volume levels and the sound won't suffer.

[the donal]

Originally Posted by relis

That's the truth.

:

http://www.b3ta.cr3ation.co.uk/data/...lassicpads.mp3

I didn't managed to get that kind of the sound (warmness) with TI/TI2. Similar yes, but not the same.
.
.

That's just gorgeous. Sound and music. Particularly the opening.

[zerocrossing]

Originally Posted by Psychlist1972

I had a Virus A and just couldn't get into it. It sounded ok, but didn't excite or inspire me -- I was looking for more spacy and ambient sounds. Don't get me wrong, it's a good synth with good sound, it just didn't do it for me.

I have a used Snow from ebay coming that I think will be a better fit for me from all the demos I've heard. I wanted knobby, but couldn't pass up the price. IMHO, the TIs aren't really pretending to be analogs, so (at least in my head) I'm not comparing them to analog.

Oh, and I like to get new stuff :D

That's the way I felt about my C. I used the hell out of it and got some great sounds from it, but I never totally bonded to it and it always felt like software running in a knobby box. I ended up getting a Nord Lead 2x instead and that seems to be more my style, though it's a bit simple and I had to add an effect processor to it to get in the ball park of what the Virus has on board.

I've yet to hear an example of a TI that excited me.

[Optical Lens]

I just love the Virus B and I will never part with it. C is supposed to sound fuller because it has an additional osc. I remember that the patches sounded fatter that were made for C, but was thinner on B because it was missing that osc.

A hissy beast it is, but it will never be very bright. You must EQ the highs to "fix" it. I prefer it plastic and gritty

[Psychlist1972]

Originally Posted by zerocrossing

That's the way I felt about my C. I used the hell out of it and got some great sounds from it, but I never totally bonded to it and it always felt like software running in a knobby box. I ended up getting a Nord Lead 2x instead and that seems to be more my style, though it's a bit simple and I had to add an effect processor to it to get in the ball park of what the Virus has on board.

I've yet to hear an example of a TI that excited me.

Yeah. It's not for everyone. I think what makes it shine to me is the effects are better than any other box I've heard, and just something about how I can feel that band pass filter in my teeth.

I had a friend over the other day. He was out this way for somethings else, but wanted to audition some synths at my house, as he was thinking of getting something. After trying the Virus, Blofeld, and a few others, and then Omnisphere and similar, we ended up agreeing that a new laptop and some nice plug-ins would be the best way to go for him.

My only *real* gripe with software instruments is that they often cost as much as hardware, but have zero resale value and no ability to lend. (Plus many have no demo versions). It's like buying downloadable games on the console: convenient, but you're not going to get your $10 trade-in value at gamestop or whatever, and you can't lend it to a friend.

Plus, in 10 years, they likely won't work, unlike hardware which runs independently from plug-ins. It's not a reason to rule it out, but it's a reason to consider the price very carefully.

That's just the way the world has gone though.

Pete

[Music303]

I have a TI2 and a Rack XL. I have A/B'd patches made on the C between the XL and TI and regardless, the XL (C) just has more oomph. I don't know what it is, it just sounds better, fuller. That said, the TI still wins for me because of options and more power and what people, oddly, seem to forget to mention is the TI has dozens of wavetables and granular synthesis, so you get a lot more to play with on the TI in that regard. My tooth sense.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by Psychlist1972

My only *real* gripe with software instruments is that they often cost as much as hardware

Virus TI2: $2,240
Omnisphere: $479

I don't know of any software instruments that cost as much as that kind of hardware - well okay, a MicroKorg is cheaper than Omnisphere but the difference between those is kind of big, no? I think only the Waves (or other high-end) plugin bundles fetch that kind of 4-digit prices.

but have zero resale value

Spend $3000 on a Motif. After 5 years, you get to sell it for $1500.
Loss: $1500. But - for 5 years, $3000 was gone from your bank account.

Spend $500 on Kontakt 5. After 5 years, you get to sell it for $0.
Loss: $500. But - for 5 years, $500 was gone from your bank account.

Plus, in 10 years, they likely won't work

Already proven to be false if you're on Windows; backwards compatibility is a religion. Even then, virtualization is trivial. Unlike CEM chips or custom ASICs, software runs happily on emulated systems.

So yeah, they're good arguments, but not entirely correct. Treat the software you buy as ephemeral goods, consider the lifetime of it in your purchasing decisions, and few things will go wrong.

But - gear purchases are not always rational.

[Psychlist1972]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Virus TI2: $2,240
Omnisphere: $479

I usually buy gear used, so the resale value is much closer to what I pay for it. In a number of cases, I've gotten lucky and made money.

But yeah, plug-ins are almost always cheaper than new top line hardware.

Compatibility: I have a few pieces of hardware from the 80s. 16 bit software from the same era isn't going to run on a modern PC. Mac also changed architectures during that time. Dongles go bad, and suddenly you're unable to even load the program. Data formats change, etc.

You have to maintain: for example, how many of you have floppy drives on your computers? The majority of new laptops don't even have DVD drives. Over time, you'll need to make sure you keep that collection updated to the latest media, etc.

Hardware has different issues (leaky caps on really old stuff). Old eproms could lose their programming. Newer DSPs can presumably, after a long period of time and the right conditions, go bad, lose their code etc. but it seems less likely.

I use a mix of hardware and software, but just wanted to point out what I think the trade-offs are.

Pete

[namnibor]

I for one am glad this thread WAS revived as it helped me make my choice in a recent Virus KC purchase.
Consider this: As of few years ago, am now finished with military career and incidentally, medically disabled from that very career. I have a decade of formal piano and back in 1982 taught myself synthesis on a korg MS20, then allowed polyphony in adding SCI Prophet 600. When able, played in cover bands and no matter what, never lost that "music in my head" so in MY case three decades later, am learning alot more about midi and HAPPILY been a technology "bottom-feeder" in building-up home studio over past few years of instruments from 90's to present that are "NEW" to me.
Forums such as these are essential as like a dry sponge, soaking-up information simply reading past threads and indeed performing searches before ever considering posting new topic.
Some of the searches, when limiting even to most basic terms will bring about overwhelming number of threads and in that needle in haystack, it may just be one person comparing A to B, whilst not answering question in end.
People should not get bent out of shape when a thread is revived and if anything, it is a direct reflection of how much of an impact a given set of instruments, new or older, are still having on musicians.
It all comes down to sound and what a person does with it in the end. Just as the piece of clay represents infinite possibilities to the artist, sound, no matter if analog, VA, or VSTi--it still is all about sculpting sound.
I actually now own both a Virus KB and KC because I find enough differences between the two for the atmospheric/ambient tracks am working on, as well as rest of home studio gear from different manufacturers. It would be akin to different types of clay the potter may use for the end result.
Funny philosophical thought is if for some reason by a drastic change in the Earth or Sun's magnetic fields, electricity simply ceased to work; we would be guarding our acoustic pianos from looters whom want it solely for firewood! something to think about

[HUBA]

Originally Posted by namnibor

I actually now own both a Virus KB and KC because I find enough differences between the two for the atmospheric/ambient tracks am working on, as well as rest of home studio gear from different manufacturers. It would be akin to different types of clay the potter may use for the end result.

So what do you think? As I understand, the avarage perceived sound difference between the viruses, among those that hear a difference, is that the A is "raw" sounding, the B is "punchy", C is "dark" and the TI has less of a character than any of those. So given the models you've heard, do you agree with, and would you add anything to that description?

[namnibor]

Originally Posted by HUBA

So what do you think? As I understand, the avarage perceived sound difference between the viruses, among those that hear a difference, is that the A is "raw" sounding, the B is "punchy", C is "dark" and the TI has less of a character than any of those. So given the models you've heard, do you agree with, and would you add anything to that description?

I have never owned an A and have only listened/demoed the Ti on really great headphones. I think the Ti series are very capable and deep instruments but since I primarily record audio, the idea of spending more time in the computer trying to play my keyboards is simply not intuitive to ME and way I wish to work only. However, am not knocking the Ti as do not have enough time spent with one to feel qualified in coming to any conclusion.
Yes, as I am still learning the Virus KC, I think "dark" would be be a great adjective but it can be as digitally dark or warm as toast as well. I do think the Virus KB has a more "raw" or "aggressive" nature, with both being incredibly capable of much more than the stereotype of trance people tend to associate any Virus synth with. The KC has twice the modulation routing and really wonderful filters. The added "analog filter" in KC opens up a whole new spectrum. When I go about designing a sound, the on board effects of any given synth are not applied until after I get that sound but of course there's sounds that effects work hand in hand with the modulation routing too. I think the KC makes better use of the third oscillator than the KB but both can sound awesome using only one with a sub oscillator. Love them both. My ONLY gripe is there's SO MUCH unused surface on right halves of the KB and KC that i wish in the keyboard models they would have added say twenty more knobs so to eliminate most of the menu-diving. Certainly not adeal breaker because that extra space SI perfect to place my DSI Evolver, etc. let me add this: I had thought while firstly only having the KB that it's key action was quite good but Access out did themself on the KC because to my fingers, it has the best set of keys ever, and seems my Blofeld Keyboard utilizes the very same keys as the aftertouch is outstanding without feeling like you are going to break it. Hope that this helps. Ye, there's some overlap between KB/KC, which can be expected, but it's akin to difference between a twin brother and a step-brother between them.

[bruvvamoff]

Sorry to dig up an old thread.
I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about the extra oscillator on the Virus C and Ti, and how often they actually use all oscillators at once?
(oscillator 1, 2, and 3)

[danielb]

Hi all,

I've had my Virus TI2 keyboard for exactly 24 hours now, so i guess I'm a veteran...

All I can say is that I am in awe; this is a truly great instrument. I managed to get the whole TI thing set up this morning, including upgrading the OS, and it actually does seem to work OK with my Mac and Logic.

It sounds amazing - an incredible combination of out-and-out aggression and silky smoothness, and stunning effects, which I haven't ever heard before, except in the old Virus B Rack that I used to own a few years ago. But they've come a long way since then, both in function and usability. There is a huge gulf between my old Virus and this one.

Anyway, I'll stop gushing for now. I'll report back when I've had it long enough to get some perspective.

[LiveFromKyoto]

Originally Posted by bruvvamoff

Sorry to dig up an old thread.
I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about the extra oscillator on the Virus C and Ti, and how often they actually use all oscillators at once?
(oscillator 1, 2, and 3)

All the time. You can use it to do FM synthesis, wavetables, or assign to it a different modulation to make more complex drone pads, which is something the C excels at. Or, of course, just thicken up the sound, since one of the frequent complaints about the Virii is that the oscillators sound thin without the effects (Though I think that's kind of irrelevant, it sounds great with the effects, and they're as much a part of the instrument as the amp envelope imo).

[draven5]

I'm so thankful for this thread l've been wondering the same thing.

I wish I'd didn't have to wad through the longer answers to get an answer through. Don't shoot me for saying. I just wish we could do a recap with answers where everyone gives their best answer "b" "c" "ti" and so on. So what is the polled answer?

[abiah]

I happen to have a B and a C sitting in front of me right now, so I transferred a bunch of patches across the two and did a recorded shootout. First one you hear is always the B.

41mb 16wav
Download Virus B vs C.aif from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

Basically, there's no practical difference between the two.

There's a lot of rumors about the B being more punchy/ballsy. Not true. The B's output is like a dB louder, was fooled by that initially.

[itege]

Wait... Is the VSE page wrong? The B only has 2 OSC?

[abiah]

Originally Posted by itege

Wait... Is the VSE page wrong? The B only has 2 OSC?

2 front panel oscillators, a third less versatile oscillator (editable via sub menu) and a sub oscillator. 4 oscillators in total.

so yeh thats wrong.