MKS80 rev 4 and 5

[Jetty]

So,

Any samples?

Any thoughts?

[Don Solaris]

Audio here.


MKS 80 rev4 followed by rev5, same notes and settings.

Hope this helps.

[lain2097]

Wow there's quite a marked difference between those two. The first one sounds pretty much like my Jupiter 6.

[SWAN808]

yeah - you want a Rev 4 really...the rumours are true. I wasnt that happy with my Rev 5. But I like punchy sounds...

[golden beers]

EDIT: oops i mean VCO
i've done a little research into this myself as i was under the impression (until last year) that there were only 2 real hardware versions.

from what i understand there are 2 main hardware differences between the early and later versions; one with the CEM VCO and one with roland VCO.
apparently there are other hardware differences between the versions but the same main chips are used in all later versions from serial #511800 onwards. the first ones supposedly sound a little more JP8 like.

quote from CEM (Curtis) SSM Hardware Chips used in these Synthesizers - welcher dsp wo?

MKS-80
Filter? Curtis? Roland? Thats a common mistake. But there is NO CEM filters in any of the MKS revisions. The CEM rev. has only CEM VCO and VCA
even the ju8 has no curtis filters.. same for the ju6..
Both revisions uses 2 CEM3360 _DUAL_ VCA per voiceboard for Crossmodulation-
The older revision usesr IR309 filter like in JP4, JP8, Juno60 etc.
The newer MKS uses IR305 which is both VCF and VCA. like in Juno1/2, JX-10 etc.
So it is right as follows
MKS-80 (racked jupiter8)
MKS80 used 8 x IR3RO5
..to Serial <#511800


WRONG (called the curtis / roland myth:
8 CEM3340 VCO
4 CEM3360 DUal VCA
Should be:
16 CEM3340 VCO
8 CEM3360 Dual VCA
12 IR-3R09 VCF

MKS80 serial >511800
WRONG (called the curtis / roland myth:
MKS-80 Serial #511800 up (later models)
8 IR-3R03 Roland VCO
4 CEM3360 Dual VCA
4 IR-3R05 Roland VCF/VCA

Should be:
16 IR-3R03 Roland VCO
4 CEM3360 Dual VCA
8 IR-3R05 VCF/VCA

[Don Solaris]

Here's info from my archive:


Alpha Juno 1, 2, MKS-50
DCO: MB87123P-G
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software

Juno 6, Juno 60
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

Juno 106
DCO: MC5534A
VCF: A1QH800170 or A1QH80017A
VCA: A1QH800170 or A1QH80017A
ENV: Software

JX-3P
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: Software

JX-8P, Super JX-10, MKS-70
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software

Jupiter 4
VCO: Discrete
VCF: IR3109 (early: 4x BA662)
VCA: BA662
ENV: Discrete

Jupiter 6, MKS-80
VCO: CEM3340
VCF: IR3109
VCA: CEM3360
ENV: Software

MKS-80 rev 4
VCO: CEM3340
VCF: IR3109
VCA: CEM3360

MKS-80 rev 5
VCO: IR3R03
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: IR3R05

Jupiter 8
VCO: Discrete
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

[roginator]

VCF: A1QH800170 or A1QH80017A

that is complete ceramic PCB and one of parts there is good old IR3109 in SMD version

[kpatz]

Originally Posted by lain2097

Wow there's quite a marked difference between those two. The first one sounds pretty much like my Jupiter 6.

That would make sense since the Rev 4 MKS uses the same Curtis chips as the Jup-6.

There's a "rev 3" MKS-80 but it's the exact same hardware as the rev 4, just older firmware. A rev 3 can be upgraded to rev 4 by replacing the EPROMs.

I have 2 tracks I created using a rev 3 MKS-80 a couple years ago. I have since sold that piece to Don Solaris.

Pleiades (MKS-80 lead and bass)

Voyage to Jupiter A piece I created entirely on the MKS-80, just to see if I could.

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by kpatz

rev 3 MKS-80 a couple years ago. I have since sold that piece to Don Solaris.

That was exactly 1 year ago. The package came in 3 days. Probably shipped by NASA.

(usual time for overseas is 3 weeks)



BTW i have no desire to upgrade from OS3.0 to OS4.0. The rumor has it, autotune routine has been enhanced in 4.0 and that's not what we want.

[synth_head]

For what its worth I had both and I thought the rev4 sounded more similar to a Jupiter 8 than a 6.., and the rev5 sounded more like what a JX3P might sound like with real analog oscillators.. I prefer the rev4, but the rev5 is also lovely..

[Jetty]

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

Audio here.


MKS 80 rev4 followed by rev5, same notes and settings.

Hope this helps.

Yes it did. I'm quite covered up on IR3R05 with MKSs 50 and 70. Quite disappointing to hear it was just as tame on revision 5. Probably a fine machine but not what I'm in the market for now.

Thanks.

[SteveyDubs]

I have both the rev 4 and rev 5 racked together and use them both with the same controller, just under different midi channels and must say that there is not a huge difference in the sound. They both sound very nice. In my opinion the rev 4 is a little deeper in the lower end. Im guessing about one octave lower. If you can pick up a rev 5 at a significantly cheaper price then the rev 4 I would do it. The difference is not worth spending more the a couple of hundred on.

[Jetty]

There now is a rev 5 with mpg-80 on offer, at $2000, €1470.

Is it worth it? Is it a good price?

[lain2097]

Originally Posted by Aeonian

For what its worth I had both and I thought the rev4 sounded more similar to a Jupiter 8 than a 6.., and the rev5 sounded more like what a JX3P might sound like with real analog oscillators.. I prefer the rev4, but the rev5 is also lovely..

Hmm have to disagree, I have both Jupiters (even though the 8 is in for repairs) and the rev 4 sounds almost exactly like the Jupiter 6. Neither MKS version have that 'liquid', thick & smooth sound of the 8.

That damn legend of the "MKS-80 - Jupiter 8 in a box" persists.

Originally Posted by Jetty

There now is a rev 5 with mpg-80 on offer, at $2000, €1470.

Is it worth it? Is it a good price?

Sounds like the right price for the pair. The friggin programmer alone is worth over 1 000$ Question is: do you want a rev.5? Or go through the hassle of reselling the rev.5 in favour of a rev.4.

[Jetty]

Let's just say that any of the versions probably won't add anything surprising to my palette. I already have JP8 and MKS-70 and from what could judge, the MKS80 had a little bit of both

Of course, i'd much rather prefer a JP6 any day with it's multimode filter but, haven't really seen anyone around for sale locally. I don't like hot items on FeeBay.

[spam]I'm thinking of finding a new home for my Rev 4 MKS-80 & MPG-80. Recapped and serviced, dust covers replaced on slide potentiometers etc, etc, within last 3 years. They have been well cared for. Feel free to PM with interest. Serious offers will be responded to. Located in the US, but happy to ship abroad.[/spam]

[haikusoftruth]

Damn... 4 sounds infinitely better than 5...

Wow.

I still want a Jupiter 8 but the prices... I never thought I would have 3 grand in my hand and still be 2 grand short... The prices have gotten crazy... But nothing sounds like it. I just cant do 5 grand... Especially knowing what they were...

I try to want a jupiter 6 or mks... I really try. But its like kissing your sister...

[RobJB06]

Hah hah... You know its funny i read these threads and sometimes hit reply, type out a message and then cancel it and think whats the point...
These days you always seem to upset some analogue think they know it all, or get some billy big bollocks come in with some smart ass comment...

Anyway.. i have a MK4 and MK5 MKS80 and really there is bugger all difference. Im selling my MK5 + programmer only because its 110V and my other MKS80 is 240V. But really they sound the same, nudge of a slider and you can duplicate the other... any difference between the two is not worth mentioning.

Jupiter 8, well.. i said earlier in this thread. But the prices are just rediculous. I remember getting a bank loan for my first CS80, £2000... took me ages to pay it off. I pity the young guy deciding he MUST have a Jupiter 8 at £5000....!
I had one for years, replaced it with an MKS80 with programmer and a Juno 60 and used the other £2500 to pay off some debt. Couldnt be happier and fwiw, i prefer the sound of the MKS80 to the Jupiter 8.

Originally Posted by haikusoftruth

Damn... 4 sounds infinitely better than 5...

Wow.

I still want a Jupiter 8 but the prices... I never thought I would have 3 grand in my hand and still be 2 grand short... The prices have gotten crazy... But nothing sounds like it. I just cant do 5 grand... Especially knowing what they were...

I try to want a jupiter 6 or mks... I really try. But its like kissing your sister...

[lain2097]

I have both Jupiter 6 & 8 (even though the 8 in still in repair) and they could not sound more different. I still love my Jupiter 6 for its precise, hard, techno sound. Plus it has BP and HP w/ resonance. And that unison sound, wow.

The Jupiter 8 I found was not so good at that type of thing. Very smooth!!

[sleestack]

other than unison bass sounds how could anyone prefer the sound of the mks over the jup 8?

[haikusoftruth]

Originally Posted by sleestack

other than unison bass sounds how could anyone prefer the sound of the mks over the jup 8?

Watch it now... dont be the big bollocks guys hes talking about...

Joke.

But I agree. Reality is its the internet, so bullsh*t is the food of the day.

The 8 is a monster based off the two most important aspects- sonics and options. But you can prefer the sound of a cricket farting and not be wrong- its preference not fact.

I'd never heard the MKS rev 4 vs rev 5 until this thread and its amazing- the rev 5 DOES sound like the JX series. WAYYYY more than I expected...

Though I use an Alpha Juno 1 all the time and people have mistaken it for a Moog... I would also say remember relativity. Im a big fan of most every roland synth up thru the JD990. Then they lost me but gained a ZILLION sales with the JV1080. If you dig in, its amazing what you can do- with any of the old rolands...

Though I did and would still take a minimoog over any non modular roland- and its got less to offer than all of them, so of course its what you do with it that counts.

Sadly even when I get up towards 4 grand, Ill be buying a second Bricasti... The 8 will have to wait... BTW Ive been waiting since they were released... Damn.

[drBill]

I've got an mks80 and jupiter 6. They sound VERY different. Owned both since the day they were new.....

My 80 is in the low 460xxx serial #'s. How do you tell which rev it is??

[GYang]

Originally Posted by lain2097

Neither MKS version have that 'liquid', thick & smooth sound of the 8.

JP8 is different and unfortunatelly no other Roland analogue can be real substitute for it.
During years I went through MKS and other Roland's analogues, but at the end sold them all and kept JP8 as distinctive classic that is worth and timeless piece.

[grumphh]

Originally Posted by haikusoftruth

The 8 is a monster based off the two most important aspects- sonics and options.

I never understood why people talk about the "options" on the JP-8?

Its parameters are bog standard for any decent polysynth with absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
Dual VCO, two filter modes, and 2 Env's. Wow?
(And some people even claim that the modulation depth on the JP-8 is limited compared to other synths - but i am not that much into synth tech that i could verify those claims)

Sound quality of course is subjective - but from a programmers pov the JP-8 is quite boring.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by grumphh

Sound quality of course is subjective - but from a programmers pov the JP-8 is quite boring.

totally not the case.

you can get a huge amount of sounds out of this beast.
i can make mine chime like a clock or scream like an alien baby.

[grumphh]

Originally Posted by golden beers

totally not the case.

you can get a huge amount of sounds out of this beast.
i can make mine chime like a clock or scream like an alien baby.

Just to make it clear that this is not envy speaking - i had one for a few months, sold it on (profit $ ) and i don't miss it at all.

All the things you mention are (once again) bog standard sounds that any polysynth with two oscillators can do.
(Also again, i stress, i am not discussing sound quality here - just sound creation possibilities)

The only remotely interesting thing i found on the JP-8 was the X-mod section - two VCO's mmmhhhh - and in all other ways programmability is just like a Juno with an extra envelope and an extra 12 db filter.

Yes, it looks gorgeous, yes it sounds nice and yes - it has all the sounds from the sucky 80's pop bands in it but in the end it is simply just another 2 VCO synth with silky sound and otherwise nothing out of the ordinary.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by grumphh

Just to make it clear that this is not envy speaking - i had one for a few months, sold it on (profit $ ) and i don't miss it at all.

All the things you mention are (once again) bog standard sounds that any polysynth with two oscillators can do.
(Also again, i stress, i am not discussing sound quality here - just sound creation possibilities)

The only remotely interesting thing i found on the JP-8 was the X-mod section - two VCO's mmmhhhh - and in all other ways programmability is just like a Juno with an extra envelope and an extra 12 db filter.

Yes, it looks gorgeous, yes it sounds nice and yes - it has all the sounds from the sucky 80's pop bands in it but in the end it is simply just another 2 VCO synth with silky sound and otherwise nothing out of the ordinary.

yes X-mod is where the action is
and i can name 50 ways you can change the tone with cross mod and modulation on the JP8. but whatever. i can't be bothered to have this argument

JP8demo.mp3 - Windows Live

[grumphh]

Originally Posted by golden beers

yes X-mod is where the action is
and i can name 50 ways you can change the tone with cross mod and modulation on the JP8. but what ever. i can't be bothered to have this argument

JP8demo.mp3 - Windows Live

Great sounds, you do utilize the JP's potential in a way i like thumbsup

And there really is no argument - because i am *beeeep* right

If you take away the looks and the vintage desirability of the retro-futuristic control panel of the JP-8 and just look at the functionality it is quite clear that not much apart from basic synth functions is going on.

Dual VCO into LP 24 or 12 db filter and 1+½ LFO and two envelopes to play with.
Hardly a well endowed synth by anyones standards...

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by grumphh

Great sounds, you do utilize the JP's potential in a way i like thumbsup

And there really is no argument - because i am *beeeep* right

*beeeep* = not?

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by grumphh

If you take away the looks and the vintage desirability of the retro-futuristic control panel of the JP-8 and just look at the functionality it is quite clear that not much apart from basic synth functions is going on.

..

oh BTW apart from getting into why you're wrong, which is something i've already said i'm not going into...
just wanted to say that ive had a couple of JPs over the past 12 years and i can tell you that when i first got one it had nothing to do with vintage desirability or the styling. i couldn't give a stuff about that.
the only reason i got one back in 98 was the sound. and its the only reason i have one today. if i didn't absolutely have to have a JP8 i would sell it. it is integral to my set up.

for me the whole vintage glamour and exclusivity is kind of bad because i don't want to sell my JP8 so all that desirability in the market only serves to push up my insurance premium.