Industrial Music Techniques?

[Absent1]

Originally Posted by zosthegoatherd

As for getting a sound closer to NIN, buy some '80's gear, listen to skinny puppy, chase Al Jurgensen around, and get Adrian Sherwood to teach you to mix.

Snicker, snicker

I like Trent's endeavors but that shit is the truth. Do not forget that Danny Hyde an associate of Coil helped craft some of that NIN sound as well. But I digress...

How to make Industrial music IMO starts with a sampler. Sample noises, people crying there hearts out, maybe sample your grandmother as she takes her last breath.

In 1989-90 I was making pretty good Industrial with a Ensoniq EPS a Yamaha RY30 and a microphone with some distortion pedals and some delays.

Screw it, if it is Industrial than call it that. If it is experimental who cares! I have always enjoyed making music and other people can take their pigeon holes and kick rocks.

The link below is something that I made and would call Industrial. The fellow who Mastered (and I know he likes Coil and Current 93) it said it was refreshing to hear something genre-less. So what do I know anyway....




Audio Resistance - A Troubling Concern - SoundCloud





I still think it sounds industrial.....

[oudplayer]

No mention of Wumpscut, Haujobb, Spahn Ranch, SPK, Factrix?

Start by miking a machine shop if you want to get a start on industrial...

[DerWanderer]

Maybe you would do something like this?

[Jake]

Originally Posted by 2326t

Legendary Pink Dots

Other than releasing a very sketchy anthology on Netwerk and inexpliably opening for Skinny Puppy I'm not sure how LPD fits into any definition of Industrial.

Of course that just goes to show how hard it is to categorize music into specific genres.

To the OP, your question is a bit weird to me. If you want to emulate some old school industrial get an old digital synth or two (ESQ-1, DX7, K1), one analog synth for bass and whatnot (need not be anything special hell a Juno 106 will do), a drum machine, a sampler (again dirt cheap right now), a sequencer, and some cheap fuzz/effects boxes to run things through. In the 80's that all anyone had to work with -- well except for Al Jourgensen who had a Fairlight!

[Stevil]

experiment. run sounds thru whatever you can get your hands on & see what it does. mic up stuff you find in the trash. try some circuit bending. re-amp tracks. bang on stuff. ect.

also if reznor is the extent of your "industrial" experience, i'd suggest looking into the bands that influenced him.
have fun!

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by Jake

Other than releasing a very sketchy anthology on Netwerk and inexpliably opening for Skinny Puppy I'm not sure how LPD fits into any definition of Industrial.

Teargarden = LPD + SP
great stuff look it up.
YouTube - The Tear Garden - You and Me and Rainbows (Part 1 of 2)




Most bands lumped into the "industrial" category tend to be more experimental rock acts who have embraced the punk ethos. so the "industrial" title usually has more to do with the artists methodology & motives than the resulting sound.

Originally Posted by DerWanderer

Maybe you would do something like this?

thats awesome.

[W-W-Int]

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

uhhhh... huh?

did you ever listen pretty hate machine? you know nin's first album...
head like a hole is euro disco in the verses and thrash metal in the chorus.

and nin is not the only "industrial" band out there (actually i really consider them more a rock band than anything else but hey)...

front 242 was considered industrial as was nitzer ebb and skinny puppy and they all have euro disco elements in there music as did nin.

nothing is the definitive "industrial" sound. it isn't about your inner emo or whatever some ****** thinks i'm trying to convey... it's about what you are and what you write and how your song all comes together in the end. mostly it's about attitude and image. the difference between [marilyn manson, and nin, and ministry, and thrill kill kult, and kmfdm] from [30 seconds to mars, rammstein, limp bizkit etc...] is what? that's right image. if you listen they all use the same elements in their music, it's all about band image mostly. if you put on a rammstein or limp bizkit song with trent's picture psted over it in a video and played it back to back with a kmfdm video someone who hadn't heard either band before but had it and each genre described to them would assume limp bizkit was an industrial band based on similarity of sounds/style.

once again there is no do one thing -> process it this way->add this->add that formula you can get from a forum that will give you an "industrial" song. barry manilow can never write an industrial song, no matter what he uses gear wise or how he processes it. it would simply be a distroted element pop/rock song. because barry manilow has no insight into that kind of sub-culture. i know i cant write a gangsta rap song because i have no inkling of what life on the those streets is really like. it would come off as gangsta as vanilla ice.

same thing here. people on the outside looking in saying just do blah blah blah as that's what i hear a lot of in xxxx have no freakin clue what "industrial" music really is. all you need to do is figure out what it is that you feel angst about or cold towards or atrracted to etc... and write about it from your persepctive. 4/4 or some other drum pattern plus 12 tone scale is 4/4 plus 12 tone scale. it's how you decide you want it all to fit together and what you want the lyrics to say that makes it what it is.

[loglady]

Originally Posted by W-W-Int

nothing is the definitive "industrial" sound. it isn't about your inner emo or whatever some ****** thinks i'm trying to convey... it's about what you are and what you write and how your song all comes together in the end. mostly it's about attitude and image.

Industrial music uses sounds inherently found in industrial environments - grinding of machines, klanking of railings and scratching of steel. It's that simple.

[Everlast]

Originally Posted by Stevil

also if reznor is the extent of your "industrial" experience, i'd suggest looking into the bands that influenced him.
have fun!

It was mostly Adrian Belew and his guitar madness that Reznor took to another level, not better, just different...

I also remember Reznor claimed that David Bowie influenced him plenty..

I don't think copying someone's style and gear he uses will get you instant and therefore interesting music, you'll probably end up sounding like "another version"

People should develop their own style, making bold moves, experimenting, spending hours creating something unique...it's so easy to sound like everybody else nowadays, especially with threads like this sharing how something was done and following exactly the same steps excluding your own signature

I must say I'm tired of generic music created each day

Sharing the exact info of how someone did it led whole music to sound the same...congrats on the rare examples that don't float in that boat

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Stevil

Teargarden = LPD + SP
great stuff look it up.

Thanks for the reference, I'm a big Tear Garden fan too-- although I haven't kept up with their more recent releases. I guess I just think of LPD as more psychedelic than industrial, but in all fairness some of their more electronic work could easily be described as industrial. Whatever you call it, its good stuff!!

[Acid Hazard]

Originally Posted by yolkboy

Industrial music uses sounds inherently found in industrial environments - grinding of machines, klanking of railings and scratching of steel. It's that simple.

No it isn't.

[Acid Hazard]

Originally Posted by W-W-Int

did you ever listen pretty hate machine? you know nin's first album...
head like a hole is euro disco in the verses and thrash metal in the chorus.

and nin is not the only "industrial" band out there (actually i really consider them more a rock band than anything else but hey)...

front 242 was considered industrial as was nitzer ebb and skinny puppy and they all have euro disco elements in there music as did nin.

nothing is the definitive "industrial" sound. it isn't about your inner emo or whatever some ****** thinks i'm trying to convey... it's about what you are and what you write and how your song all comes together in the end. mostly it's about attitude and image. the difference between [marilyn manson, and nin, and ministry, and thrill kill kult, and kmfdm] from [30 seconds to mars, rammstein, limp bizkit etc...] is what? that's right image. if you listen they all use the same elements in their music, it's all about band image mostly. if you put on a rammstein or limp bizkit song with trent's picture psted over it in a video and played it back to back with a kmfdm video someone who hadn't heard either band before but had it and each genre described to them would assume limp bizkit was an industrial band based on similarity of sounds/style.

once again there is no do one thing -> process it this way->add this->add that formula you can get from a forum that will give you an "industrial" song. barry manilow can never write an industrial song, no matter what he uses gear wise or how he processes it. it would simply be a distroted element pop/rock song. because barry manilow has no insight into that kind of sub-culture. i know i cant write a gangsta rap song because i have no inkling of what life on the those streets is really like. it would come off as gangsta as vanilla ice.

same thing here. people on the outside looking in saying just do blah blah blah as that's what i hear a lot of in xxxx have no freakin clue what "industrial" music really is. all you need to do is figure out what it is that you feel angst about or cold towards or atrracted to etc... and write about it from your persepctive. 4/4 or some other drum pattern plus 12 tone scale is 4/4 plus 12 tone scale. it's how you decide you want it all to fit together and what you want the lyrics to say that makes it what it is.

There's nothing Eurodisco about ANY of that. Sorry, but i just don't think of Giorgio Moroder when listening to Skinny Puppy or Front 242 or Nitzer Ebb. 242 and Nitzer Ebb were actually EBM.

And how can you even say there's a similarity in style between TKK, KMFDM, and Ministry and LIMP ****ING BISQUICK! Come on! Rammstein might use the same elements, but that's about it.

[W-W-Int]

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

No it isn't.

agree completely...

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

There's nothing Eurodisco about ANY of that. Sorry, but i just don't think of Giorgio Moroder when listening to Skinny Puppy or Front 242 or Nitzer Ebb. 242 and Nitzer Ebb were actually EBM.

And how can you even say there's a similarity in style between TKK, KMFDM, and Ministry and LIMP ****ING BISQUICK! Come on! Rammstein might use the same elements, but that's about it.

disagree...
euro disco kept going beyond 1982 you do realize that and that giorgio moroder wasn't the only euro disco artist ever? also ebm is a sub genre of industrial, as is coldwave which is closer to trent reznor's stuff.

as far as how can i say there's a similarity between tkk, kmfdm and ministry and limp bisquick? let's see, limp bizkit is a mish mash of mainstream hip hop and metal with lots of distortion applied to the elements other than just the guitar. that pretty much also sums up tkk, kmfdm and ministry and nin. they all heavily use loop based samples treated to try to disguise the origin, they all mix rap and singing in the lyrics, they all use synths mixed with metal guitar, etc... the only difference is limp bizkit is more about white guys with marijuana/custom cars than white guys with heroin/power tools. big whoop you hear the same noises in both bands. it's just they apply them in different contexts in the songs and have them at different prominence levels and the lyrics are different.

personally i don't like tkk or nin or ministry (ministry had 1 industrial album the rest has just been bad synth pop and then metal, tkk are just a bunch of immature idiots who got kicked out of other bands and sound like ass, and nin never impressed me because of the overly metal period ministry influence).


industrial covers so much territory, anywhere from ebm (front 242), new ebm (combichrist), hard synth pop (and one) to experimental noise (merzbow), found sound industrial (einsturzende), jazz industrial (foetus), rock industrial (nin, ministry), country industrial (pale horse), etc... and all things in between.

everyone argues what is and isn't industrial all the time in other forums dedicated to the genre... problem is there's always someone who is a rivet head who will argue that his preferred brand of industrial is "the real" industrial. i won't go there, but anyway it covers a lot and because of it, limp bizkit is so damn similar to tkk, nin, ministry et al because of the hip hop meets metal crossover. all those bands have done it as well, they just focus on heroin and detroit vs. marijuana and east l.a.

[W-W-Int]

and again again o the original poster...

what gear do you already have? if you want to do synth meets metal you will need effects for the guitars and a variety of synths for a variety of sounds. you can do that fairly cheaply however, no need to get all slutty just yet. a cheap epiphone, and a line 6 pod, and a multieffects rack like a zoom 9xxx series or alesis quadraverb gt or similar would cover you for guitar treatment fairly well.

synth wise, a cheap fm synth like the tx-7 or tx-802 or pd synth like the casio cz 1000 or better yet the vz 8 or 10m or vz-1.

cheap sampler with resonant filters, emu emax I or II, ensoniq mirage, esi-32, akai s3200 etc...

cheap subtractive v.a. or dco/analog filter or pcm osc analog filter hybrid. korg dw-8000, ensoniq sq-80/esq-1, yamaha an1x, roland sh-201/jp8000, etc...

good mics for vocals and or drums or found sounds collecting (if you decide to go that route)

decent mixer anything from a behringer for now to a mackie or soundcraft etc... just something used that is fairly clean sounding for recording

daw software... there's free stuff like audacity for recording, semi-shareware like reaper and full blown like ableton live and sonar, logic, cubase etc... pick what your budget allows now and move up over time for the extra features/support also there's a ton of free soft synths and effects for that daw package. google kvr and you could get the free versions of the major synth catagories i listed for now

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by Everlast

I also remember Reznor claimed that David Bowie influenced him plenty..

I don't think copying someone's style and gear he uses will get you instant and therefore interesting music, you'll probably end up sounding like "another version"

i saw the bowie nin tour & it was one of the best shows i've seen him do.

it's great to have your own sound but sometimes it helps to wrap your head around the music that inspires you in order to get to a point where you can develop your own ideas to their fullest.

[glitchfactor]

I love listening to a bunch of people who seem to know nothing about industrial music explain how to make it. Just because it's "called" industrial doesn't automatically mean "go sample some machinery" LOL!

Plus, if you want to make 25 year old industrial music....then by all means, listen to all of these comments.

I'm not trying to be a ******, but there is a TON of REALLY bad, cookie cutter, trying WAY too hard, Fruity Loops "industrial" out there. What I've learned is......if you don't HAVE it already......well, let's just say it's probably not going to happen.

bartholomewpro, by noob to the max, please explain your current standing. Are you MIXING this? creating it? what's your instrumentation? what gear do you currently have?

It's hard to answer your question without knowing where you are with things.
What type of sound are you going for? Just NIN? New NIN? Old NIN?

[Everlast]

Originally Posted by glitchfactor

What type of sound are you going for? Just NIN? New NIN? Old NIN?

That's actually a great question as I'd like to hear explanation what exactly is the NIN sound

[Unrealworld82]

Hrmmm.. I spent a long time making "industrial" music. I like to think that by now I have evolved beyond it, whatever it is.

I think the underlying ethic behind "industrial", broadly speaking, is to do the unexpected. Take instrument A and try to turn it into instrument B. Effect things not usually effected. Distort things not normally distorted. At this point, by way of NIN, Skinny Puppy, Ministry, old KMFDM, hell even a lot of old Marilyn Manson, it is hard to make a "new" industrial sound using distortion.

Since you did ask for some insight, I can tell you that I read a Guitar World interview with Trent Reznor from 1994 in which he detailed some pretty cool tricks he had used on Broken and TDS (the two most "industrial" NIN albums:


1. Using tape machines - He would record some rhythm tracks at normal speed, then slow the tape down and tune his guitar down to compensate. He would then record guitar parts at slow speed, then raise the tape speed back up. This would, of course, artificially raise the pitch back to standard. This causes the guitars to have a supersaturated, inhuman quality. I think he cited "Last" from Broken as an example. You can do similar stuff with tape speed controls in your DAW (I use Reaper, which is great for this). It also is an old trick used to allow a guitarist to play a complex part more slowly, then speed up to shred speed.

2. Can't believe no one has mentioned it yet - plug a fuzz or "metal" distortion straight into the board. Be careful.

3. Arpeggiators are your friends. The synth line in "Heresy" is such a classic industrial arp.

4. Sampling from movies - the opening song on TDS, "Mr. Self Destruct" is preceded by a sample lifted straight out of THX1138. If you watch it, you can't miss it.

5. Noise - many NIN/industrial songs have ambient layers of straight white or pink noise. In many cases this noise is "pitched" or "timed" in reference to the song - but often (as is the case with "Hurt") it's just an obscure, subliminal blanket in the background.

That only a small fraction of the numerous unconventional techniques used in by NIN. Hope it at least fulfills your question.

[Everlast]

personally, I never considered NIN as industrial band - Trent has intelligent ability to connect classic form of pop/rock with his trademark sound design which evolved in, I dare to say, "NIN genre" itself. His melodies were always catchy in a popmusic sense, but not too catchy..

I think it's a great approach to take recognizable, simple and widely accepted music form and to add something of your own, something never heard before. NIN music was always flirting with mainstream, but it had something that never belonged to it(kind of) - like crazy and never heard distortions and guitar sounds

Combining and merging various parts of different music genres tastefully is something I always considered as interesting...

[W-W-Int]

Originally Posted by Everlast

Combining and merging various parts of different music genres tastefully is something I always considered as interesting...

this used to be what "industrial" was about in the mid 90's. it was an endless quest to mix 2 or more genres and add some noise in there. it got to the point of sadness eventually (as was inevitable) with things like country-metal-noise and folk-noise-techno etc... type releases.

nin has always been a rock band that likes to experiment with sounds and techniques barely mixing any other genre in. to their credit they do a lot of experimentation with sound, but at the end of the day it's still a rock/pop style with lots of distorted guitar on everything overpowering it.

if you're after an "industrial" sound my only real advice is...

1.) program all your sounds from scratch.
2.) do not listen to anybody else's music and try to emulate it at all.
3.) do not be discouraged by what you have result-wise in the beginning.
4.) if you write something that is very similar to something else, but it's still good anyway use it anyway. never toss out a good song simply because you're trying to be "original".

[Everlast]

Originally Posted by W-W-Int

this used to be what "industrial" was about in the mid 90's. it was an endless quest to mix 2 or more genres and add some noise in there. it got to the point of sadness eventually (as was inevitable) with things like country-metal-noise and folk-noise-techno etc... type releases.

I should have underlined tastefully as the crucial word - I know of various genre blending, but most of those are just radical combinations with no quality at all - that was not what I meant actually

People that are new at any genre tend to overcomplicate things, making their songs sound complex with a lot of sounds thinking they're on the right path

My main advice is keep it simple yet strive to sound complex at the same time

Choosing right sounds and making a great arrangement is everything - gear comes second.

[bartholomewpro]

Thank you everyone for replying to this.

It really helped alot weather I know the meaning of industrial music or not is beside the point.

Thanx for all the feed back sorry its taken so long this was very overwhelming
.

Does anyone have any good tips for a live set up

Right now im working with abletonlive( and logic 9 for recording)
Presonus studio live
and a micro korg
with vox
YouTube - Nine Inch Nails - Me, I'm Not live in Europe Aug 2007 [HQ]
I wanna do something like this for live. I know they are using diffrent gear like samplers but im gonna try and run my own sound on stage with the SL
Does any one have any tips ????

[rids]

When I honestly think of industrial I too think true industrial should be sampled sounds of machinery and things found in the environment. That seems to represent what it is, but it is (and should be) so much more than that. More like Einsturzende Neubauten's approach.

Although I think the true industrial approach is to not have a preset form of music in mind when you make it, kind of let yourself connect to whatever instrument or noise maker that is around you. Of course you could come up with something other than industrial music this way, but that I think is the inherent in the industrial, if I may be so philosophical.

[Derp]

Originally Posted by rids

Although I think the true industrial approach is to not have a preset form of music in mind when you make it.

This to me is about the definition of industrial. Experimenting with sounds to create something new.

[Tarkovsky]

What an absolute load of rubbish. Soggy biscuit used sonic elements of industrial hiphop, but that doesn't make them industrial. Lots of jazz, blue, Motwon/soul and Rock n Roll bands used the same instruments and the same sounds, does that make jazz, blues, Mowtown/soul and rock n roll all equatable?

Hint: There's a philosophical element at work here.

Industrial music reflects on industrial and often post industrial soundscapes, repurposing noise as music. Using malforming loops is exactly the opposite of this process.

[bartholomewpro]

Ok I just saw this second page
Here is a gear list im not short handed< i really lack in the "crap" department though.

Logic 9 mac pro
roseeta8and ad 16
avalon
4 chan vintech
4 chan api
micro korg
fuzz pedals
lots of guita amps
numean U87

set of drum mics

The stuff i said above
ect...(I inherited this im only 18)


BUt i wanna start sampleing my own sounds ive already been doing it digitally with songs and such but i wanna start doing my own miced up stuff. Thank you for such a big resonse!!!!!

[bartholomewpro]

Also In the Midst of all this research I have found a quote that I rather like.

Industrial Music: the anti music

I dunno whats your take???
I have a way better grasp now on this thanx to yyou guys
Keep talking though Im gonna keep a close eye on this because i love the info you guys have I have become a way better sampler.

Lets talk about "Cheap Gear" . im eager to here about stuff you guys have done in the past that worked and also the stuff that did'nt
I dont wanna blow up my gear HAHAH

[JRock]

Simple repetition, Big buildups + big dynamics, Distortion, Overdriven analog tape... wear black. I prefer crank but I think most of them guys love the dope.

[zosthegoatherd]

They liked crank too.

[Susceptor]

Rivethead vs. Fake Rivethead
Fake Rivethead: I cut myself because of Marilyn Manson.
Note: Rivethead will now start to laugh uncontrollably.
Fake Rivethead: What? What's so funny?
Rivethead: Nothing. A joke I heard yesterday. Hey, see those guys over there? (Points to large group of big, angry looking, black clad men in Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, and Coil T-Shirts, carrying baseball bats and smoking hash) They LOVE Marilyn Manson! Go tell them all about it!
Fake Rivethead: Thanks! I will!

Note: This is a great way to reduce the earth's population of NIN fans

Rivethead vs. Rivethead
Rivethead 1: Skinny Puppy kicks ass.
Rivethead 2: Pfft. Skinny Puppy. That's not real industrial. Neubauten rules.
Rivethead 1: Neubauten? Bunch of crazy German's beating on shit! That's not music!
Rivethead 2: Yeah, well Skinny Puppy's a bunch of ****ing computer nerds, trying to LOOK like real industrial... guys.
Rivethead 1: Damn, you're elitist!
Rivethead 2: Thanks.
Rivethead 1: Wanna start a band? I've got a Casio keyboard and my brother's fuzzbox.
Rivethead 2: Uh... yeah, what the hell.

Aside from the jokes, there is only ONE rule to idustrial... GO BERSERK!! Feel free to experiment, do weird shit that no one else bothered to do before. Also, NEVER listen to dumb debates like PC vs Mac, analog vs digital, software vs hardware; just try and create what you hear in your mind, regardless of the means used to achieve that.


In case of doubt, distort (when you'll get a grip of how to make music you'll distort only when necessary)