Waldorf Blofeld or Novation Supernova I

[Remedial]

Okay, so, in the interim of me selling my Access and finally getting an analog synth, I wanted to know which of these two synths would you guys buy if looking for an all purpose synth that's reasonably easy to program? All purpose meaning it can cover my bases wiht basses, leads and pads very well and easy to program from the viewpoint of, well written manual (and not written as horrendously as the Virus'), logical layout (might not be as applicable with the Blofeld because it's just menus) and no functions whose purposes are vaguely explained. I like the fact that the Blofeld has a sine wave but I've heard there's a workaround for creating one on the Supernova. Let me know what you guys think. My main genres of music production are hip hop, R&B, wonky and some weird electronica stuff that I have yet to name.

[SovietSpaceChild]

I'd recommend a Waldorf Q and/or XT in lieu of the Blofeld. The Supernova never did anything for me soundwise.

[Remedial]

Originally Posted by SovietSpaceChild

I'd recommend a Waldorf Q and/or XT in lieu of the Blofeld. The Supernova never did anything for me soundwise.

Well, unfortunately, the Blofeld and Supernova are what I have to choose from right now. Thanks for the input, though.

[Popbott]

Which Access did you sell? I know owners of Virus B's and C's who now own a TI and are completely blown away by it's features compared to previous models, myself included.

What is your work environment for music like? Do you sequence or print directly to audio? The TI is an extremely powerful instrument in the sequencing world as is the Blowfeld supporting 16 multi-timbral parts. If you purchase a Blowfeld, IMO, it's very similar to a TI sound wise and would be a redundnat purchase being that the TI's latest OS version now supports wavetables much like a Blowfeld.

I have never really been impressed with the sound of a Supernova either. If it is between that and a Blowfeld, I would purchase the Blowfeld as it is a bit more updated and the sound pallet is a bit more versatile.

[ChristianRock]

Come on, the guy said a Supernova and a Blofeld because he only has 500 or so dollars to spend. You guys keep telling him to buy 2000+ dollar synths, in true gearsluz fasion

Between those two, Supernova. On the same price range, JP-8080 would probably be the best all-around covering all bases, if you don't mind the lower polyphony I think it sounds more pleasing to the ears, in the same way a lot of analogs do...

[Remedial]

Originally Posted by Popbott

Which Access did you sell? I know owners of Virus B's and C's who now own a TI and are completely blown away by it's features compared to previous models, myself included.

What is your work environment for music like? Do you sequence or print directly to audio? The TI is an extremely powerful instrument in the sequencing world as is the Blowfeld supporting 16 multi-timbral parts. If you purchase a Blowfeld, IMO, it's very similar to a TI sound wise and would be a redundnat purchase being that the TI's latest OS version now supports wavetables much like a Blowfeld.

I have never really been impressed with the sound of a Supernova either. If it is between that and a Blowfeld, I would purchase the Blowfeld as it is a bit more updated and the sound pallet is a bit more versatile.

Well, I'm "selling" my Virus C tonight. The sound was ok but programming it was very frustrating for me. I'm ideally looking for a synth that I can delve into and lose myself in programming for hours at a time. I especially like the screen on the Blofeld that allows you to see that actual curve of the filter envelope, etc.. Well, I tend to sequence everything first and then record after, rather than just dropping each part immediately after creating it. The reason why I even considered the Supernova was due to all the acclaim it received once up on a time, especially the praise of it's effects and the ability to route sounds to the effects so liberally, rather than the limiting manner of the Virus C.

[Remedial]

Originally Posted by ChristianRock

Come on, the guy said a Supernova and a Blofeld because he only has 500 or so dollars to spend. You guys keep telling him to buy 2000+ dollar synths, in true gearsluz fasion

Between those two, Supernova. On the same price range, JP-8080 would probably be the best all-around covering all bases, if you don't mind the lower polyphony I think it sounds more pleasing to the ears, in the same way a lot of analogs do...

Why would you say the Supernova? Sound, routing, effects?? Thanks.

[cl516]

blofeld is pretty easy to program, and can also go deep with fm, filter fm, etc. the supernova, some people don't like, but some folks swear by the sound. find some more mp3 demos online and see which sounds better to you. i think they're both pretty awesome.

[felis]

Originally Posted by Remedial

... I'm ideally looking for a synth that I can delve into and lose myself in programming for hours at a time....


The Blofeld's better for that.


.... Well, I tend to sequence everything first and then record after, rather than just dropping each part immediately after creating it....


If you mean sequence all parts at once, you might have polyphony problems with the Blofeld.

...

[shadowfac]

I would go for the supernova, also.

Why?

First, they are easy to program. Sure, the Blofeld has a big screen, but the Supernova has many knobs and buttons for faster access to most parameters. I had a Virus A and a Nova once at the same time, and I found the Nova much easier to program. I don't need big screens. I just need my ears and enough knobs. Of course... I eventually sold both the Virus and Nova and kept my Nord Lead 3

Second, while the Blofeld is probably more flexible soundwise, the Supernova is quite a workhorse. It will do 95% of the sounds you need... all at the same time and without coughing. The Blofeld may do the other 5% non-standard stuff, but you will have to record one track at a time. You say you like to sequence everything first, and record later, so the supernova will probably fit in that kind of workflow much better.

Third, the Supernova have like 7 dedicated effects per part, while the Blofeld only has 1 effect slot per part. The supernova will always give you 20 voices (unexpanded) no matter how complex you patch is. The Blofeld's polyphony will depend on patch complexity, and according to what I've read, very complex sounds will seriously limit the number of voices. Also, you have multiple outputs on the supernova and only one stereo output on the Blofeld. If you use a mixer or multichannel interface, you will be able to sequence 8 parts on the supernova in realtime and route each to a single channel.

[ChristianRock]

What Shadowfac said.

Basically, the Supernova is a throroughly professional synth, one of the top synths at the time it came out. The Blofeld, even though it is powerful, is a budget synth and it becomes clear when we talk about processing power. It just doesn't have the dedicated CPU power that the Supernova has (even though the Supernova is much older).

Also, the lay-out of the Supernova, with much more knobs for tweaking, is much better. There's menus, of course, but the basic stuff is there for the tweaking. And it has double-saw

Which comes to the most important factor, which is sound. It's very subjective, but I think Supernova is more all-around better compared to Blofeld. Blofeld will do great pads and good leads, but I think Supernova basses are among the best you can get in a VA. Its pads are also to die for and the leads can be very, very thick and nice (a lot of rap and r'n'b has been created using the K-Station/A-Station synths, which are derivates of the Supernova sound engine).

Finally, both synths can sound very good, and very bad, depending on the programmer knowing what he or she is doing. A synth like a JP-8080 has a much wider "sweet spot" and is more difficult to make it sound shrill and digital, which is why I suggested it. But you can make good music with any of them, it's just up to you to program the sounds that will fit your songs

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by ChristianRock

Come on, the guy said a Supernova and a Blofeld because he only has 500 or so dollars to spend. You guys keep telling him to buy 2000+ dollar synths, in true gearsluz fasion

Between those two, Supernova. On the same price range, JP-8080 would probably be the best all-around covering all bases, if you don't mind the lower polyphony I think it sounds more pleasing to the ears, in the same way a lot of analogs do...

Well $$$ wasn't in the question and he still had to answer which Access he was selling. A TI would blow a Blowfled away (no pun intended) big time. I got my used TI way CHEAP, there is a ton of them out there!
I have owned a Supernova before, I sold it and was glad to take out the trash.

[Remedial]

Thank you both Shadowfac and ChristianRock for the great input. I had figured that the Supernova was very powerful and a great all around synth but my biggest things are ease of programming and sound quality. For example, it's great having seven effects per voice on the Supernova, but if they're not that great and youreallu need the effects in order to get coax a good sound, then I consider those weaknesses.

Thanks again, though. All I can say is that those Novation guys really had to be very forward thinking to make a synth that was that powerful (and still is in comparison to stuff like the Radias) at that time.

[brock]

Originally Posted by Remedial

Okay, so, in the interim of me selling my Access and finally getting an analog synth, I wanted to know which of these two synths would you guys buy if looking for an all purpose synth that's reasonably easy to program? All purpose meaning it can cover my bases wiht basses, leads and pads very well and easy to program from the viewpoint of, well written manual (and not written as horrendously as the Virus'), logical layout (might not be as applicable with the Blofeld because it's just menus) and no functions whose purposes are vaguely explained. I like the fact that the Blofeld has a sine wave but I've heard there's a workaround for creating one on the Supernova. Let me know what you guys think. My main genres of music production are hip hop, R&B, wonky and some weird electronica stuff that I have yet to name.

Supernova was one of the worst sounding synthesizers I have ever played. Also, if you think that the effects are nice, you have another thing coming. The phaser has that cheap whistling sound, and the reverb sound like it is straight out of a campbells soup tin. One of the very few synths that made an exit out of the studio within a week (the other being the DX11). Truly awful synth. I don't have any experience with the Blofeld, but I have owned a few Waldorf synths (Pulse, Micro Q, and Microwave XTK) and they have been excellent.

If I were you, I would buy a Dave Smith Tetra. For the money, that thing kicks out serious bass, wormy leads, pads - covers all of the styles that you are looking for with APLOMB. You can pick them up new for less than $700. Supernova is a total compromise. The Tetra is totally nasty.

[Oli]

I think both are good synths. I would go for the Supernova 2 rather than 1, as I think if patient, the price difference can be small.

I think the Supernova is probably a fair choice for a general purpose synth. I like the sound of the Blofeld a little more, but I have other synths as well. The sound of the Supernova didn't stand out as having a great character to me. I think the interface and ease of use are high priorities for you, and the Supernova may well be a better fit there. The Blofeld has had some bugs and reliability issues. There is a bug fix OS currently in beta testing, but as it stands there are bugs in the synth. I think the polyphony of the Supernova will be more satisfying for a single synth as well.

BTW, are you looking for a Supernova keyboard, or rack? From memory, the interface is slightly different between the two, with the keyboard giving slightly better access to some parameters. I think the rack may have some controls switched for shared duty, which are dedicated on the keyboard. I think both are fine though.

[kreeper_6]

I thought you mentioned going analog, neither of these are analog? I would recommend a Nova Laptop though, it has liquid filters and also does the supersaw sound for around $350. The Laptop has plenty of knobs!

Check out some trance sounds it can do here.

Samples Reason Refill Novation Nova Trance 01 Supernova - eBay (item 140357943578 end time Jan-05-10 11:23:01 PST)

[pyvnd]

Blofeld has a great interface and a special sound. If u can get one in great condition for $500 or less go for it. But beware you may not get more than 3 or 4 sounds at once out of it. I paid $700 for mine which was too much.

[kilon]

Blofeld has an incredible depth to it , you will be surprised how well it competes with the big boys.

Yeah sure it sucks at effects compared to a virus and supernova , but getting freeware effects is dead easy .

Dont let the lack of knobs discourage you either, a bcr2000 will give you 32 knobs capable of controlling thousands of parameters (you can hook up any other other hardware or software synth on BCR at the same time with the blofeld) and it will only set you back 130 euros new.

I own a blofeld and stop using it after 2 years cause I bought an Andromeda and frankly it sounds much better than anything I heard. Still I see myself returning back to blofeld at some point, as there are thing blofeld can do that Andromeda cant.

One final advice , dont rely onto Blofeld's presets or demos out there, they only demostrate a 0,00001% .... but I guess that pretty much applies for any synth out there.

[Yoozer]

I have a Virus C. It's really not that complicated, but the menu diving and the slightly weird modulation setup is what irks me the most.

Explaining each function doesn't help. What you need is an overall view; what do you want to achieve, and how do the steps to get there help you?

I had a Nova. I'd like to have it again someday; it's a really cute little machine, though it's more "back to basics" than the Virus in a sense. Even more basic and within budget would be a Novation KS-Rack or something.

Seconding the sentiment to see if you can snag a Supernova II; the little Nova is a Supernova 1.5 in a way.

[Remedial]

Originally Posted by Oli

BTW, are you looking for a Supernova keyboard, or rack? From memory, the interface is slightly different between the two, with the keyboard giving slightly better access to some parameters. I think the rack may have some controls switched for shared duty, which are dedicated on the keyboard. I think both are fine though.

I'm looking at the Supernova I rack. Well, while I was here looking, someone scooped it up last night, so, either I hold out until something better comes along in my price range ($500) or just buy the Blofeld.

[Remedial]

Originally Posted by kreeper_6

I thought you mentioned going analog, neither of these are analog? I would recommend a Nova Laptop though, it has liquid filters and also does the supersaw sound for around $350. The Laptop has plenty of knobs!

If I'm correct, the liquid filters weren't introduced on the Nova line until the Supernova II, right?

[Yoozer]

The Nova's supersaw (doublesaw) is kind of odd, though, in my experience. If you have one oscillator with the doublesaw enabled and you play a note and use the delay effect, the delayed version of the sound isn't the double saw - but a single one. Also, because the doublesaw always starts at the same phase, the initial sound isn't detuned at all.

Unless I was doing something wrong, of course; I forgot if you could route oscillators to specific effects.

[felis]

The Nova's oscillators have an internal sync function, similar to Yamaha's AN system, where you don't have to use two oscillators to achieve it.
So you can have 3 oscillators with their own separate sync settings in a patch for some wild results.

[nytcrawlr]

I say go with a Supernova 2 if you can grab one. I think it's a spectacular VA and find myself using it more than my TI lately. I actually just sold my Blofeld recently as I wasn't using it much. I may end up picking up Largo at some point though if I want some Waldorf sounds.

[kreeper_6]

Originally Posted by Remedial

If I'm correct, the liquid filters weren't introduced on the Nova line until the Supernova II, right?

The Supernova filters were always liquid. Luiquidity starts @ 8:25 in this video.

Originally Posted by Yoozer

The Nova's supersaw (doublesaw) is kind of odd, though, in my experience. If you have one oscillator with the doublesaw enabled and you play a note and use the delay effect, the delayed version of the sound isn't the double saw - but a single one. Also, because the doublesaw always starts at the same phase, the initial sound isn't detuned at all.

Unless I was doing something wrong, of course; I forgot if you could route oscillators to specific effects.

I usually use outboard FX but the Nova's saws are immense, and IMO thicker than the JP-0000. It has the double saw on all 3 OSC's and when used w/ unison...LOOK OUT! You have to manually detune the OSC's w/ the Tune knob.

[DocT]

The Supernova 1 had its time. But that time was 10 years ago.

[CfNorENa]

Imagine a synthesizer that combined the Waldord Microwave XT, the Waldorf Q, and the Nord Wave. That would be mind-blowing, right? But it would probably cost $4000. Now imagine a synthesizer with 75% of the capabilities of our imaginary super-synth. Would you be willing to pay $500 for it? If so, look again at the Blofeld.

[yareck]

Supernova is classic. IMO it's one of the best synths made out there. I've had Waldorf Q and the sound seemed a little bit hard and digital. You can learn every synth as you're not looking only for presets. Supernova was more intuitive IMO, however it's old... anyway I would like to have one just to play its great arpeggiators, even 10 minutes a day would be nice.

[Popbott]

So many different opinions, what works for one person may not work for someone else. I for one am surprised at the amount of positive posts for the Supernova, even having sold mine, this thread makes me want to try one again. IMO, get whatever synth would inspire you the most to write some kick ass music.

[chroma]

i've never had any of the novations (except the bass station rack... ok sounding, but great for controlling my pro-one or the blofeld. But i've looked at the nova, and I want another XT (my favorite synth of all-time). Both of those do something that neither the blofeld or the supernova I can do - run external audio through its filters and effects. The novas have a powerful (and good sounding, from what I hear) vocoder that you can't really use without an external input (which is part of why I was looking - $300 for a nova vs. $150 for an se-70 (which has a nice and clear sounding 21-band vocoder)). And the XT has some crazy filters (waveshapers and other weird sounding things) that are just incredible on external sounds.

Both of those should be in the $500 range, if you can find them. I've considered a blofeld, since XTs aren't that easy to find these days. But it just doesn't get the 'vibe' of an XT to me.