Vermona Drum DRM1 MKIII

[PTB]

After a long debate between Elektron, Jomox and Vermona - I just purchased a Vermona Drum MKIII and wanted to start a discussion with all the Vermona owners on the various ways you sequence and record.

I didn’t get the version with the trigger inputs and bought mine from Big City Music. Phil is a really cool guy and even tested my unit to ensure it worked properly (The Vermona’s have stereo output issues with one channel being louder then the other). Anyways, I highly recommend Big City Music for your future purchases.

SEQUENCING:

• I know the drum machine is the way to go to sequence the Vermona but what are you guys/girls using to sequence besides drawing in the MIDI notes?
• If you use MIDI notes from your DAW, how are you getting swing?
• Does anyone know if the Novation Launch pad could be configured to trigger external MIDI units (Vermona) even though it doesn’t have MIDI I/O ports?

RECORDING:

• If you use the direct output for one channel (e.g., kick to external compressor) does the Vermona also include that channel in the master stereo output or does it exclude it?
• Are you using stereo or mono cables to record?
• What processors do you use before you hit your A/D?
• Do you record the stereo mix in one shot or each channel separately?
• How do you handle EQ for each instrument?
• Would you recommend compressing the stereo output including the kick channel or removing the kick channel and then compressing the stereo output?
• Automation...let’s talk about it!

Feel free to mention anything else I might have missed.

Thanksss

[DGBX]

I've been thinking of picking one up and sequencing it from my ER-1. the electribe sequencer is very easy to "play", like a musical instrument, rather than just program

only I don't know if it can do different time signatures.

[PTB]

ok even if you don't own a vermona please make some suggestions.

[fanriffic]

SEQUENCING:

• I know the drum machine is the way to go to sequence the Vermona but what are you guys/girls using to sequence besides drawing in the MIDI notes

MPC's are cool.

• If you use MIDI notes from your DAW, how are you getting swing?

..with 'swing' from your DAW.

• Does anyone know if the Novation Launch pad could be configured to trigger external MIDI units (Vermona) even though it doesn’t have MIDI I/O ports?

Probably.


RECORDING:

• If you use the direct output for one channel (e.g., kick to external compressor) does the Vermona also include that channel in the master stereo output or does it exclude it?

Try it.you've got one.

• Are you using stereo or mono cables to record?

Balanced or unbalanced??...outputs are unbalanced.

• What processors do you use before you hit your A/D?

Whatever-some comp,EQ..hitting some analog red maybe..

• Do you record the stereo mix in one shot or each channel separately?

• How do you handle EQ for each instrument?

• Would you recommend compressing the stereo output including the kick channel or removing the kick channel and then compressing the stereo output?

• Automation...let’s talk about it!

Umm...Nah.


Forgive me If I come across a bit 'dick-ish'..but some of those questions are impossible to answer in any definitive way..How long is a piece of string??

...I got a bit bored...apologies.

Go experiment,have some fun with it-congrats,great machine!

[PTB]

Originally Posted by fanriffic

Forgive me If I come across a bit 'dick-ish'..but some of those questions are impossible to answer in any definitive way..How long is a piece of string??

I always try to add value when making a thread whether it's for me or someone else who searches the forum at a later time to find answers to some of their questions that may relate to mine.

Maybe I should post another this synth vs. that synth thread.

Originally Posted by PTB

I didn’t get the version with the trigger inputs

I'd trade + cash for the triggers if anyone found they were not using them. I have considered popping it open to see how easy it would be to diy them.

SEQUENCING:

• I know the drum machine is the way to go to sequence the Vermona but what are you guys/girls using to sequence besides drawing in the MIDI notes?

DAW and machinedrum

• If you use MIDI notes from your DAW, how are you getting swing?

My DAW has swing, I assumed they all did.

RECORDING:

• If you use the direct output for one channel (e.g., kick to external compressor) does the Vermona also include that channel in the master stereo output or does it exclude it?

The direct outs are send/returns. If you do not return the signal it will not be present in the stereo outs. This is in the incredibly tiny manual that takes 5 minutes to read twice.

• Are you using stereo or mono cables to record?

Depends on the application. I may pull several channels to process individually, or group separately on the mixer. I may run a channel through a piece of outboard and back in. I have also made cables that will pull an individual channel while leaving it coming out of the stereo outs as well (once again detailed in the manual). Due to the flexibility the cables used may change dramatically with each application.

• What processors do you use before you hit your A/D?

Depends on what I want to do. Sherman, Eventide, Mutators. This is a bit like asking what kind of tires can you put on a car.

• Do you record the stereo mix in one shot or each channel separately?

Yes to both, and even a mix of both.

• How do you handle EQ for each instrument?

By applying what is needed for each or a group of channels. I'm not sure I understand the question.

• Would you recommend compressing the stereo output including the kick channel or removing the kick channel and then compressing the stereo output?

Once again, depends entirely on what you are trying to do. It would be a shame to have multiple options depending on your application yet only be able to do things a single way.

[lowkey]

woohoo, my Vermona MKII chrome edition just arrived in the mail too, so this thread is perfect timing!

Im planning to sequence it from a reaktor sequencer ensemble, rather than from Cubase's drum editor...so ill see how that works out.

I work mainly ITB, but i have a cheap dbx 2 channel compressor and a mono Roland RE201 space echo. I dunno if i will record individual channels too often, as i usually find getting a groove easier to achieve with less individual channels... im guessing ill be using itb compression and eq once ive recorded, but will probably end up wanting a nice external comp to run it through eventually.

Its going to be fun

[PTB]

Originally Posted by lowkey

woohoo, my Vermona MKII chrome edition just arrived in the mail too, so this thread is perfect timing!

There you go fanriffic...point proven.

Anyways, lowkey I get mine Friday. Report back your results and I'll do the same.

I've been thinking about the Roland RE201 space echo for a while now. How are you liking it? Do you plan on using it with the vermona?

[lowkey]

The RE201 is great. I run my drums sub group to it, with just a little delay to get a nice bouncey swing to them. It also softens the digitalness...though that might not be necessary with the Vermona

[chucklett]

I'd trade + cash for the triggers if anyone found they were not using them. I have considered popping it open to see how easy it would be to diy them.

Good luck! The connections are not numbered and they are only a few millimeters away from the eproms. To much heat and they will fry! The rigid wires don't make it any easier either.

[rachel]

I am using the Octopus to sequence my DRM over MIDI. It is the ultimate x0x
combination. I am also now regretting not getting a version with the triggers,
as I now will have my magic box for spitting out gate pulses everywhere and
it seems like a cool thing to do.

I am using the stereo outputs direct into my Toft ATB-16 for that vintage analogue
punch. Before I had it going into a Behringer RX1602 line mixer, which seems
to suck the life out of everything if you use more than 4 stereo channels.

Through the ATB it sounds huge. I have a bunch of insert cables I happened
to have left over from my old setup. I have a collection of Boss Microracks
that I can push the drum channels through for effect. I am looking for
a nice Boss Microrack Parametric EQ for this job so I can tune the drum sound more
finely in the mix.

Also, while I am on about triggers, I am also looking for more stuff in the
flavour of the Boss HC-2, PC-2 and so on. If it can take +5v gate pulse, I think
it is interesting to me!

The DRM-1 is a definite future classic I reckon. It sounds nothing like a regular
drum system. It can sound extremely cheesey and annoying or quite dreamy
and spaced out or heavy beat powered noise. I love it!

rachel

[fanriffic]

Originally Posted by PTB

I always try to add value when making a thread whether it's for me or someone else who searches the forum at a later time to find answers to some of their questions that may relate to mine.

I commend your efforts in bringing value to your threads..really...I genuinely think that's very generous spirited of you...

Its great to discuss how we use the tools we have-that's what this place is for..

..however my point was simply that; without being aware of the (musical) context-the question "how do you handle EQ for each instrument", for example..or "what processors do you use before you hit your A/D"..etc..is of very little value.

If you were asking regarding a specific sound,a mix,a particular situation or even a generic style...that would be a different matter..but its really impossible to generalize so sweepingly...ESPECIALLY with a machine like the DRM1 where the variables are virtually infinite.



F

[lowkey]

Does anyone here have a copy of the owners manual? ive searched all over the net, but had no luck

btw im sequencing it with d16's drumazon...working well with nice shuffle

http://www.vermona.com/download.php?...b8&countonly=1

[moley]

I sequence mine with an Elektron Machinedrum.

I use separate audio outs, the kick output feeds the audio trigger on an MBase 11.

I'm very happy with the results.

Doesn't the Vermona have the best clap you ever heard...?

:D

[aeonlux]

Originally Posted by moledog

I sequence mine with an Elektron Machinedrum.
I use separate audio outs, the kick output feeds the audio trigger on an MBase 11.
I'm very happy with the results.

When I had a Vermona mkIII on loan for a bit I did the same thing with my MDUW and MBase01. Good times!

Originally Posted by moledog

Doesn't the Vermona have the best clap you ever heard...? :D

It's quite lovely, yea.


cheers,
Ian

[PTB]

I sequence mine with an Elektron Machinedrum.

I use separate audio outs, the kick output feeds the audio trigger on an MBase 11.

I'm very happy with the results.

Doesn't the Vermona have the best clap you ever heard...?

:D

The kick on the vermona sounds nice when adjusted finely although it does not cut through that well. I will definitely be adding an external compressor to it. Thinking about a DBX 160X or VU. (distressor is a bit too harsh IMO)

So far the other Drum and Multi channels are not as useful as I was expecting. However, I definitely need to explore them more. Might be used more for fx then actual drum sounds.

I like the snare a lot and the clap sounds good as well but it's very low compared to the other channels.

Hats sound good.

I'm triggering the vermona through regular MIDI notes in Live 8. Setting it up was a bit cumbersome but it works.

I think the vermona gave me drum machine GAS. I'm thinking of getting the machinedrum for sequencing plus additional sounds or a jomox 888 for
more analog filthand some tom sounds that I'm not currently getting with the vermona (plus you can sequence 4 external midi channels).

Yes I know, I could get them both and that is an option too. Any suggestions?

[lowkey]

The multi channel sounds great for short bass/melody stabs i think...not as a drum sound. Clap is the best ever!

[networkacid]

This thread is making me GASsy! Seems like this beast could be the Yin to my Machinedrum's Yang

[networkacid]

Originally Posted by PTB

If you use MIDI notes from your DAW, how are you getting swing?

Anyone who's using Logic - go check out sflogicninja on youtube. He has groove templates from the MPC3000 and shows you how to use them in Logic to get that classic MPC shuffle.

[Beneficial]

The thing about the MPC, or any old hardware sequencer is that the timing wasn't perfect compared to sequencing in a DAW. There are slight variations in the note positions... randomly shifts of around 1ms. Then there is also the fact that a midi cable cannot sent data in parrallel so if you play 16 notes at the same time they will each trigger the drum/synth sound about 1ms after each other. Anyway to really capture the groove of an old sequencer you have to record 16 tracks of midi and then create 16 groove templates. Track 1 in your DAW gets quantized to channel 1 groove template from your Sequencer.. Track 2 in your DAW gets quantized to the channel 2 groove template you made etc. It's a hassle but it can make Cubase come alive. Or you could just buy an MPC60.

[PTB]

Originally Posted by lowkey

The multi channel sounds great for short bass/melody stabs i think...not as a drum sound. Clap is the best ever!

Yea I don't know about the clap. It's just not LOUD!

If only you were able to turn down the other channels to bring the volume of the clap up, or send the channel out individually and be able to adjust the level to taste on a mixer.

[PTB]

Originally Posted by BF_

If only you were able to turn down the other channels to bring the volume of the clap up, or send the channel out individually and be able to adjust the level to taste on a mixer.

Yes I know but it should be comparable right OTB

[HomeProducer]

Originally Posted by Beneficial

The thing about the MPC, or any old hardware sequencer is that the timing wasn't perfect compared to sequencing in a DAW. There are slight variations in the note positions... randomly shifts of around 1ms. Then there is also the fact that a midi cable cannot sent data in parrallel so if you play 16 notes at the same time they will each trigger the drum/synth sound about 1ms after each other. Anyway to really capture the groove of an old sequencer you have to record 16 tracks of midi and then create 16 groove templates. Track 1 in your DAW gets quantized to channel 1 groove template from your Sequencer.. Track 2 in your DAW gets quantized to the channel 2 groove template you made etc. It's a hassle but it can make Cubase come alive. Or you could just buy an MPC60.

thats what all these myths are about. A 909 has almost perfectly tight groove.
I doubt that you can hear its variations within plusminus 2 ms. Same for the MPC.

Did you notice how unprecise Cubase timing is?

Its exactly the opposite. Not the typical DAW is "perfectly" in sync, but the old sequencer.
And ... you cannot capture this timing with some DAW software, it will add its jitter to it.
There are some exceptions: Reason is as tight as possible.

[PTB]

ok so I just had a nice little session with the vermona. thank god because I wasn't feeling it last night at all. patience son, patience