analog 909 hi hats

AJ Reynolds · 10th November 2009

i'm looking for a drum machine or module that can do 909ish hi hats. i'm not looking for something exactly the same but something in that style.

i've got a Vermona, which i love but it can't do anything that resembles a 909 hi hat. At the moment i'm using a Korg EMX for those sounds but i'd like something that is analog and not a PCM sound.

rockmanrock · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

i'm looking for a drum machine or module that can do 909ish hi hats. i'm not looking for something exactly the same but something in that style.

i've got a Vermona, which i love but it can't do anything that resembles a 909 hi hat. At the moment i'm using a Korg EMX for those sounds but i'd like something that is analog and not a PCM sound.

You want the moon on a stick! The original 909 hats are samples of real hi hats so you're not going to find any analogue ones which sound like them.

alkor · 10th November 2009

got some nice results with a jomox xbase 09, dirty

msl · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkor

got some nice results with a jomox xbase 09, dirty

+1 Yep. Or a Novation DrumStation, I especially like the ride on that one.

.

AJ Reynolds · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

You want the moon on a stick! The original 909 hats are samples of real hi hats so you're not going to find any analogue ones which sound like them.

i though this could be the case but they don't sound synthetic.

next question

how do you make a real hi hat sound like a 909 hi hat?

AJ Reynolds · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkor

got some nice results with a jomox xbase 09, dirty

i knew these were sampled hi hats. i may as well forget it and just use what i've got.

or make my own 909 hats from recording acoustic hi hats.

mamonu · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

how do you make a real hi hat sound like a 909 hi hat?

The 909 cymbals and hi-hats were sampled at 6-bit resolution.

msl · 10th November 2009

I thought it was 8bit 32hz?

I have the raw samples extracted from the eproms, and thats what they are....

Lots of other things influence the sound of real 909 hats, the swing, accents, old d/a

.

stiblrok · 10th November 2009

or get a TR-707, almost the same sound, but very limited editing... also much cheaper and a great step sequencer...

Altitude909 · 10th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiblrok

or get a TR-707, almost the same sound, but very limited editing... also much cheaper and a great step sequencer...

Um, NO editing. Just volume.

alkor · 10th November 2009

living sounds · 11th November 2009

Nothing sounds like the 909 hihats. Only 6-bit, but somehow very clear, smooth and snappy. Jomox sounds very harsh in comparison, nowhere near as good and hardly useful IMHO. The sampling frequency on the 909 seems to be around 60khz at the stock tuning setting judging from spectral analysis.

Anyway, I just recorded the hihats with a lot of knob settings straight into a good converter at 192khz (downsampled to 96k because there wasn't much useful information in the high ultrasonic region). First from the mix outputs, then from the single outs. Enjoy:

www.scherer.de/Download/909Hats.rar

**Don Solaris** · 11th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by msl

I thought it was 8bit 32hz?

I have the raw samples extracted from the eproms, and thats what they are....
.

I though they were 6bit. How did you found out they are are 8bit? Care to post a binary file?

Quote:

Originally Posted by living sounds

The sampling frequency on the 909 seems to be around 60khz at the stock tuning setting judging from spectral analysis.

That high? Maybe those were some artifacts in the output stage. Got a screenshot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by living sounds

First from the mix outputs, then from the single outs. Enjoy:

www.scherer.de/Download/909Hats.rar

What a great guy, you are!

living sounds · 11th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

That high? Maybe those were some artifacts in the output stage. Got a screenshot?

It doesn't look like artifacts. Just take a look at the file I posted. The mirror image seems to start at around 31 khz.

BTW, if you listen closely you can hear every hit sounds slightly different, maybe the clock isn't too stable and the analog VCAs play their part as well. Hihats coming from the 909 sound more alive than just samples.

Oli · 11th November 2009

I think even though there is a sample triggered as a source, it is not really valid to think of 909 hats as standard sample playback.

As to sample depth, the ROM is most likely 8 bit, though could be used to store a 6 bit source. I don't have any real info on this, though. Personally, I've used 8 bit ROMs to store various non 8 bit sources, and 16 bit memory to store non 16 bit data etc.

Fred_Abstract · 11th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by living sounds

Anyway, I just recorded the hihats with a lot of knob settings straight into a good converter at 192khz (downsampled to 96k because there wasn't much useful information in the high ultrasonic region). First from the mix outputs, then from the single outs. Enjoy:

www.scherer.de/Download/909Hats.rar

thanks for the sample

GrantB · 12th November 2009

The 909 hh samples are 6 bit. Most likely the extracted WAV files mentioned are those created by Colin Fraser, who converted them to 8 bit 32k. More info, including how to use them to create your own clone 909 ROMs is on his DIY site:

http://www.colinfraser.com/tr909/my909.htm

Donpepperoni · 12th November 2009

Ummm, why not get a 909 for 909 sounding hats?

If it's a case of price, get the Novation Drumstation from Ebay or wherever.

jbuonacc · 12th November 2009

THE GUY ALREADY HAS 909 HATS IN THE EMX. why should he buy anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

... i've got a Vermona, which i love but it can't do anything that resembles a 909 hi hat. At the moment i'm using a Korg EMX for those sounds but i'd like something that is analog and not a PCM sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

how do you make a real hi hat sound like a 909 hi hat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

i knew these were sampled hi hats. i may as well forget it and just use what i've got. ...or make my own 909 hats from recording acoustic hi hats.

holy hell, there's lots of dumb in this thread.

Donpepperoni · 12th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuonacc

THE GUY ALREADY HAS 909 HATS IN THE EMX. why should he buy anything?

Sorry, hadn't heard the EMX

Oli · 12th November 2009

Personally I find the drum station most underwhelming. No punch or presence, not lively at all.

The experience is nothing like playing with real 808/909. I think when I've used the real thing, there was the concern that they could be a bit unruly in a mix, whereas with the Drumstation I would just beg for it to be bigger. The fun factor also isn't there.

Using outboard didn't quite make it for me either, though I've never owned a really good compressor.

Overall, I think I prefer to work with software or a sampler to the Drumstation.

msl · 13th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantB

The 909 hh samples are 6 bit. Most likely the extracted WAV files mentioned are those created by Colin Fraser, who converted them to 8 bit 32k. More info, including how to use them to create your own clone 909 ROMs is on his DIY site:

http://www.colinfraser.com/tr909/my909.htm

Yep correct thats were I think I got them!

.

AJ Reynolds · 13th November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuonacc

THE GUY ALREADY HAS 909 HATS IN THE EMX. why should he buy anything?

i'm too poor to buy anything else but maybe someone around here knows of an analog drum machine that can make that sound. if there was i'd probably consider saving for it but it seem like analog synthesis can make that sound. oh well

then i got more interested in how to make an acoustic hi hat sound like a 909 hi hat, because to me the 909 sounds very synthetic. maybe it's because i'm a geek and find this stuff interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuonacc

holy hell, there's lots of dumb in this thread.

lauschepper · 5th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

You want the moon on a stick! The original 909 hats are samples of real hi hats so you're not going to find any analogue ones which sound like them.

+1

so, whats the cheapest way to get 909-sounding sample based hats in an outboard machine that are to some extent modifiable (e.g. in decay, tune etc).

im looking for a cheap maybe underrated vintage (synth, machine, whatever) only for 909-ish hats so i can fit them into my small hardware set-up.

any ideas on that?

golden beers · 5th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauschepper

any ideas on that?

use a sampler?

lauschepper · 5th October 2010

that was my first thought, too.

so ill have to seek for a cheap sampler i guess.

golden beers · 5th October 2010

also you could look for an R 8 or R 8M

very cheap on ebay.

it has very classic techno hi hats. not exactly 909. but the ride is sublime. and the sound quality is just awesome

lauschepper · 5th October 2010

the r8 sounds good, what about the mc 303? how far can you edit the drum sounds on that machine? because there have to be some 909 hats on that one and it goes pretty cheap too

considering a sampler, is there a cheap rack sampler with an tr-kinda sequencer on it?

covariance · 5th October 2010

My 909 clone got alive and yes, the hi-hats sound fantastic!
Much better sounding than Jomox although Airbase has useful extra parameters like attack and peaktime.
Now I'm into heavy modding to get it programmable and extras.

atsushi_hoshiai · 5th October 2010

The Xbase09 HH is indeed a really good reproduction of the original. AFAIK it uses the same structure (heavily compressed samples + analog VCA). I guess, Juergen read out the data from the original ROMs.
Anyway back in 1997 when I got the Xbase, I did some tests to compare the HH with the original. I fed 2 channels of the mixer which HHs, one from the XBase and one from the 909. Then I set the same off-beat open-HH-pattern and adjusted the XBase for the same tuning on the HH as my 909.
When playing both HH together it gave a pretty cool flanging effect, showing that there are very minimal differences between both channels.
When switching between both channels, both HH did sound identical...

10th November 2009	#1
AJ Reynolds Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 1,293 Thread Starter	analog 909 hi hats i'm looking for a drum machine or module that can do 909ish hi hats. i'm not looking for something exactly the same but something in that style. i've got a Vermona, which i love but it can't do anything that resembles a 909 hi hat. At the moment i'm using a Korg EMX for those sounds but i'd like something that is analog and not a PCM sound.

10th November 2009	#8
msl Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 3,496 1 Review written	I thought it was 8bit 32hz? I have the raw samples extracted from the eproms, and thats what they are.... Lots of other things influence the sound of real 909 hats, the swing, accents, old d/a . __________________ "It's like a throbbing jellyfish of low end" Joseph Micolo Latest releases here & here

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10th November 2009	#3
alkor Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 206	got some nice results with a jomox xbase 09, dirty

10th November 2009	#9
stiblrok Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	or get a TR-707, almost the same sound, but very limited editing... also much cheaper and a great step sequencer...

11th November 2009	#12
living sounds Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 2,780	Nothing sounds like the 909 hihats. Only 6-bit, but somehow very clear, smooth and snappy. Jomox sounds very harsh in comparison, nowhere near as good and hardly useful IMHO. The sampling frequency on the 909 seems to be around 60khz at the stock tuning setting judging from spectral analysis. Anyway, I just recorded the hihats with a lot of knob settings straight into a good converter at 192khz (downsampled to 96k because there wasn't much useful information in the high ultrasonic region). First from the mix outputs, then from the single outs. Enjoy: www.scherer.de/Download/909Hats.rar

11th November 2009	#15
Oli Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 1,590	I think even though there is a sample triggered as a source, it is not really valid to think of 909 hats as standard sample playback. As to sample depth, the ROM is most likely 8 bit, though could be used to store a 6 bit source. I don't have any real info on this, though. Personally, I've used 8 bit ROMs to store various non 8 bit sources, and 16 bit memory to store non 16 bit data etc.

12th November 2009	#17
GrantB Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oly Posts: 195	The 909 hh samples are 6 bit. Most likely the extracted WAV files mentioned are those created by Colin Fraser, who converted them to 8 bit 32k. More info, including how to use them to create your own clone 909 ROMs is on his DIY site: http://www.colinfraser.com/tr909/my909.htm

12th November 2009	#18
Donpepperoni Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London Posts: 120	Ummm, why not get a 909 for 909 sounding hats? If it's a case of price, get the Novation Drumstation from Ebay or wherever.

5th October 2010	#26
lauschepper Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: germany Posts: 59	that was my first thought, too. so ill have to seek for a cheap sampler i guess.

5th October 2010	#29
covariance Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 171	My 909 clone got alive and yes, the hi-hats sound fantastic! Much better sounding than Jomox although Airbase has useful extra parameters like attack and peaktime. Now I'm into heavy modding to get it programmable and extras.

5th October 2010	#30
atsushi_hoshiai Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 87	The Xbase09 HH is indeed a really good reproduction of the original. AFAIK it uses the same structure (heavily compressed samples + analog VCA). I guess, Juergen read out the data from the original ROMs. Anyway back in 1997 when I got the Xbase, I did some tests to compare the HH with the original. I fed 2 channels of the mixer which HHs, one from the XBase and one from the 909. Then I set the same off-beat open-HH-pattern and adjusted the XBase for the same tuning on the HH as my 909. When playing both HH together it gave a pretty cool flanging effect, showing that there are very minimal differences between both channels. When switching between both channels, both HH did sound identical...