JX8P vs JX10

[Arcadia]

I've never had an 8P but did own an MKS-70 (JX-10 rack) with PG-800. I would say the advantage of the JX-10 is that it's 2 8P's in one, meaning you can layer two patches to create even more fat sounds, or string/brass layers, or split it for performance - bass/lead. If you don't fancy yourself needing all that then the 8P is probably fine.

[danielb]

Originally Posted by golden beers

toying with the idea of getting one of these. i see on ebay/gumtree/SOS that you can pick up a JX8P for £250! and i'm sure you can get a JX10 for less than £400. seems silly cheap. i guess these are under-rated...

i read that the JX10 has no sys ex.
i've heard the JX8P has good midi implementation. and sysex.

so slutz: anyone confirm the sysex-edit-ability of the JX8P?
how does the 8P hold up against the 10?

Yes. I can confirm that the JX-8p can be controlled with sysex. I program mine both via software and with my Novation Nocturn, for which I built the controller and sysex translation maps myself.

Personally I think it is a phenomenally underrated synth with a awesome sound.

D.

[The Elf]

The MIDI implementation on the JX-10 was something of a disaster. I think it must have been written by a trainee!

Sys-ex is all but useless. I did have a JX-10 for a short while and also discovered some other interesting MIDI bugs, particularly when trying to use multi-channel splits over MIDI, but I'll admit I don't recall my findings now. One of my friends was trying to write an editor for the JX-10, but gave up in despair.

I traded the JX-10 back in and re-bought my original JX-8P (which had come back into the store by then!), but later swapped that for an MKS-70. The MKS-70 is effectively two JX-8Ps, like the JX-10, but suffers from less MIDI bugs. Having said that it is still not as disarmingly simple and flexible as the good old JX-8P. With the 8P you can simply dump the current patch into the start of a song and it will load up into the edit buffer, even if you long ago overwrote the original patch - brilliant. I created my own Cubase panels for editing - it was really easy.

If the MIDI implementation is important to you then I'd stay well clear of the JX-10, but otherwise it is a great instrument.

All of them sound fantastic. One word - 'Soundtrack' mmm...

[golden beers]

thanks guy's, very interesting, thanks for posting.
i know that the JX10/mks70 is 2X JX8Ps but does that make the sound 2x better?
in terms of sound alone which do you prefer JX8P or 10/MKS70?
i'm interested in that cold analogue soundtrack sound! (i have the warm tones covered)

i'm thinking JX8P or MKS70 right now. how buggy is the MKS midi? would i be tearing my hair out?

[flat earth]

I owned a JX8P for a while and have only recently sold my MKS-70.

Tbh, although there is a slight difference in sound (similar to difference between Nord Lead 2 & 2X), I didn't really notice it. Much prefered the MKS because it was pretty much 2 JX8Ps, and it didn't have all the annoying problems associated with old JX8P keyboard mechs (dead keys, aftertouch etc).

MKS-70 all the way thumbsup

[HomeProducer]

MKS 70 is fine. It has a very nice noisefree(!) Chorus in it. Also had a JX 10, too bulky for its sound. I mean the ratio

sound / area

is not so high. Yes its a very nice synth, but I rather have it as a rack.
The MKS 70 compared to MKS 80 is not worse and has its own character.
A very good complement for MKS 80 if they are located together. I can
reach both programmers, cool to mess around.

[Don Solaris]

Go MKS-70 without thinking. It sounds fantastic!

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by golden beers

thanks guy's, very interesting, thanks for posting.

Originally Posted by golden beers

i know that the JX10/mks70 is 2X JX8Ps but does that make the sound 2x better?
in terms of sound alone which do you prefer JX8P or 10/MKS70?
i'm interested in that cold analogue soundtrack sound! (i have the warm tones covered)

i'm thinking JX8P or MKS70 right now. how buggy is the MKS midi? would i be tearing my hair out?

Not at all; the MKS-70 is fine. It's just not as friendly as the 8P – I don’t think you could use the edit buffer in the same way, for instance. My old MKS-70 used to get a bit confused about keyboard splits and leave notes hanging on some left-hand patches, but my latest 70 is better. No big deal – I never use split patches anyway.

I'd take the 70 over the 8P or 10 (and I did, in fact!). The 8P was always a bit noisy and the 10, well... we've covered that. And 2 x JX-8Ps? Slurp! Layer two patches up, detune them (programmable per Patch) and treat your ears. With this much de-tuning and chorusing it’s a lesson in ultimate wobbly swirliness!

Like the 8P the envelopes are sluggish, so don’t go expecting hard, cutting basses, and you can’t create a swift Hammond key-click like you could with the Juno 6/60.

The MKS-80 and MKS-70 are very different creatures. The 80 is powerful, sharp, strident and punchy. The 70 is warm, rich, swirly and rolling. That’s got a lot to do with the chorus and the DCOs. Whereas the 80’s raw oscillators sound gritty and ‘analogue’, the 70’s DCOs sound a bit ‘plastic’. Once you pull the filter in, though, you’ll forget all about that and just enjoy the ride.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

Go MKS-70 without thinking. It sounds fantastic!

if money wasn't an issue!.

MKS70 + PG800 = £600 to £700
JX8P = £180 to £250
i even saw a JX10 go for <£210 on ebay

[Skallawa]

I wonder how the JX10 compares to the Juno 106. I have a JX10 and I can get a good deal on a 106. wondering if it would be worth the money.

[The Elf]

You really don't need the PG-800. I sold mine many years ago. The architecture of an MKS-70 Tone is pretty simple, so if you're reasonably competent with analogue synthesis you can make simple tweaks quite rapidly.

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

I wonder how the JX10 compares to the Juno 106. I have a JX10 and I can get a good deal on a 106. wondering if it would be worth the money.

I'm not that impressed by the 106. It has its advocates, and some get very passionate about it, but it's very cheesy. It amazes me that they sell for way more than 8Ps!

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

I wonder how the JX10 compares to the Juno 106. I have a JX10 and I can get a good deal on a 106. wondering if it would be worth the money.

Tonally totally different, the Juno is a lot warmer side by side. Definitely wouldn't hurt to have both. The JX-10 is a big keyboard. I think the PG-800(or similar) is essential. I find the JX incredibly tedious without a programmer. Programmers definitely totally open up the JX

[lain2097]

Originally Posted by The Elf

I'm not that impressed by the 106. It has its advocates, and some get very passionate about it, but it's very cheesy. It amazes me that they sell for way more than 8Ps!

One very simple thing.. its sub-osc and the fact it has an entire panel of sliders! All the things I've heard out of an 8P were tweedy sounding. Funny I find the 8P to sound cheezy

Sure the 106 only has one osc but it's very easy to find and its MIDI works great. Very contrasting to my Jupiter 6 for sure.

@golden beers: damn it you guys pay a lot for synths over there. I can get an 8P for half of that! Since you still need an editor for either the JX-8p or JX-10 just get an MKS-50. The MKS-50 is a strange beast.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by The Elf

You really don't need the PG-800..

yeah i would do the same, but couldn't find a price for it without, which is why i quoted that. may i ask how much you got for your programmer and in what year?

i was thinking this would be a pretty sweet way of getting an MKS80. as the programmers are sought after. i mean for 1 5th the price of a programmer you could get a dedicated midi controller and keyboard for the MKS80. anyway moneys tooooo tight to think about that. but next year maybe

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by lain2097

One very simple thing.. its sub-osc and the fact it has an entire panel of sliders! All the things I've heard out of an 8P were tweedy sounding. Funny I find the 8P to sound cheezy

Just tune one of the 8P's oscillators down and you've got a sub! No problem there.

But I agree about the panel of sliders. I missed that when I went from Juno 6 to 8P. If it matters to you, you get the PG-800. Once I had an MKS-70 I found I could eaily rattle up new patches from the front panel, so just felt I wanted the desktop space and funds.

8P cheesy? You've heard the wrong sounds - or we have a different definition of cheese! Take a listen to Clannad's 'Legend' - 8P-fest.

The intro fanfare to 'Final Countdown' is also a pair of 8Ps. But that *is* cheesy!

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by golden beers

yeah i would do the same, but couldn't find a price for it without, which is why i quoted that. may i ask how much you got for your programmer and in what year?

250 pounds around 12 years back.

[rockmanrock]

Originally Posted by The Elf

The MIDI implementation on the JX-10 was something of a disaster. I think it must have been written by a trainee!

Sys-ex is all but useless. I did have a JX-10 for a short while and also discovered some other interesting MIDI bugs, particularly when trying to use multi-channel splits over MIDI, but I'll admit I don't recall my findings now. One of my friends was trying to write an editor for the JX-10, but gave up in despair.

I traded the JX-10 back in and re-bought my original JX-8P (which had come back into the store by then!), but later swapped that for an MKS-70. The MKS-70 is effectively two JX-8Ps, like the JX-10, but suffers from less MIDI bugs. Having said that it is still not as disarmingly simple and flexible as the good old JX-8P. With the 8P you can simply dump the current patch into the start of a song and it will load up into the edit buffer, even if you long ago overwrote the original patch - brilliant. I created my own Cubase panels for editing - it was really easy.

If the MIDI implementation is important to you then I'd stay well clear of the JX-10, but otherwise it is a great instrument.

All of them sound fantastic. One word - 'Soundtrack' mmm...

You are Paul W from SOS and I claim my five pounds!

There's an upgrade by Colin Fraser (Mr P3 sequencer) that enables sys-ex for the JX10: JX 10 SysEx Edit

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by rockmanrock

You are Paul W from SOS and I claim my five pounds!

There's an upgrade by Colin Fraser (Mr P3 sequencer) that enables sys-ex for the JX10: JX 10 SysEx Edit

that is pretty bloody amazing !!
makes it EDIT: ALMOST as good as an MKS70!!!! and i have access to an eprom burner!

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

I wonder how the JX10 compares to the Juno 106. I have a JX10 and I can get a good deal on a 106. wondering if it would be worth the money.

Two different design lines from Roland. Juno 106 is SMD chip version of Juno 60, so they are very close to each other. Here are the chips:


Alpha Juno 1, Alpha Juno 2, MKS-50
DCO: MB87123P-G
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software

JX-8P, Super JX-10, MKS-70
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3R05
VCA: M5241
ENV: Software

Juno 6, Juno 60
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

Juno 106
Same as Juno 60 but in SMD design and software envelopes

JX-3P
DCO: Standard Ic.
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: Software

Jupiter 6, MKS-80 rev4
VCO: CEM3340
VCF: IR3109
VCA: CEM3360
ENV: Software

Jupiter 8
VCO: Discrete
VCF: IR3109
VCA: BA662
ENV: IR3R01

As you can see there are two genesis lines. One with Juno 60 (Juno 106), JX-3P, Jupiter 6, 8, MKS-80 rev4. Second line with JX-8P, JX-10, MKS-50, MKS-70, Alpha Juno. This should give some hints on the sound, though in general, same chip doesn't have to mean the same sound.

[danielb]

Originally Posted by lain2097

One very simple thing.. its sub-osc and the fact it has an entire panel of sliders! All the things I've heard out of an 8P were tweedy sounding. Funny I find the 8P to sound cheezy

Make a sound using the second crossmod option, with pitch envelope on DCO2, Detune the two oscillators by an octave.

Then turn on the second (flashing) solo mode. Add unison detune (hidden parameter) to taste. Fiddle with the filter envelope level.

How cheesy is that?

D.

[Thomas Ivory]

Just got a JX10. My JX8P broke and I figured I would upgrade. I have a PG-800. I like the JX10 a lot. I like the dual JX8p idea but if you want you can make it so its like your using just one. Thats nice. Things I dont like:

1. The size of the keyboard. That thing is way to big and it is difficult to fit inside of a smaller studio.

2. I am having a problem programing MIDI on it. With my JX8P I would record a bassine on a midi track and then have the midi track looping in my external sequencer. Then I would press record and fiddle with the PG-800 and make crazy squelches and beeps and other midi weirdness. The JX-8P would record all my PG-800 tweaking as Midi.

The JX-10 cannot do this? I cannot seem to get it to do this at all

Does that fall into the catagory of the MIDI issues? I hope not..if so that is a shame.

Does the MKS-70 allow for this use of the midi with the PG-800?

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ivory

Just got a JX10. My JX8P broke and I figured I would upgrade. I have a PG-800. I like the JX10 a lot. I like the dual JX8p idea but if you want you can make it so its like your using just one. Thats nice. Things I dont like:

1. The size of the keyboard. That thing is way to big and it is difficult to fit inside of a smaller studio.

2. I am having a problem programing MIDI on it. With my JX8P I would record a bassine on a midi track and then have the midi track looping in my external sequencer. Then I would press record and fiddle with the PG-800 and make crazy squelches and beeps and other midi weirdness. The JX-8P would record all my PG-800 tweaking as Midi.

The JX-10 cannot do this? I cannot seem to get it to do this at all

Does that fall into the catagory of the MIDI issues? I hope not..if so that is a shame.

Does the MKS-70 allow for this use of the midi with the PG-800?

try reading this thread instead of just posting a question first, all will be revealed

post #19 is the money post

[Jetty]

Golden, I can't really think of any reason why you want that, imo, awful JX10 when you can go MKS. The keyboard really is a nuisance, it feels cheap, not at all like a flagship.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by Jetty

Golden, I can't really think of any reason why you want that, imo, awful JX10 when you can go MKS. The keyboard really is a nuisance, it feels cheap, not at all like a flagship.

oh i haven't got one. thanks for the advice. yea am holding out for a MKS70.

[Thomas Ivory]

"try reading this thread instead of just posting a question first, all will be revealed

post #19 is the money post"

Actually I did read the thread. Im not so good with all the termanology, and I dont really know the technical way to talk about midi just yet. I apologize. I am guessing that JX 10 SysEx Edit is what is missing here for me to write the editing I do on the PG-800 to a midi track?

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ivory

"try reading this thread instead of just posting a question first, all will be revealed

post #19 is the money post"

Actually I did read the thread. Im not so good with all the termanology, and I dont really know the technical way to talk about midi just yet. I apologize. I am guessing that JX 10 SysEx Edit is what is missing here for me to write the editing I do on the PG-800 to a midi track?

The MIDI is crap on the JX-10, it barely works, you have found that out by buying one. Sadly the JX-10 is not the full ticket, with some glaring flaws.. although capable of some very nice sounds it's certainly not an upgrade to the much better designed JX-8P.

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ivory

"try reading this thread instead of just posting a question first, all will be revealed

post #19 is the money post"

Actually I did read the thread. Im not so good with all the termanology, and I dont really know the technical way to talk about midi just yet. I apologize. I am guessing that JX 10 SysEx Edit is what is missing here for me to write the editing I do on the PG-800 to a midi track?

ok, sorry.
click the link...
read it. basically the JX10 has ******** midi. you can fix it up by opening it up and swapping out a chip for this guys one. although the guy says that there is some midi latency with the JX10 that can't be fixed with his chip

[Thomas Ivory]

^^^^^^^^

No problem man,

And thank you for the link.

From reading the link it seems that the MKS-70 allows the kind of editing I am trying to do and is more compact.

One question: MIDI SysEx Editing would be recording the movement of sliders on the PG-800 as midi data?