Eigenharp

[keybdwizrd]

This is just the coolest thing... check it out:

Made on a Mac: Eigenharp, the next evolution in electronic music-making | 9 to 5 Mac

[tony smyth]

WOW!!!! that thing is amazing....

[drockfresh]

I heard the Max Rebo band at Jabba's palace has been beta-testing

Originally Posted by drockfresh

I heard the Max Rebo band at Jabba's palace has been beta-testing

[Llitsor]

Thats a much better demonstration than the one I saw on the BBC news website earlier today ( BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Do you drum it, strum it or stroke it? )

It's very impressive, and looks like it can do the job of a lot of instruments. But then it also costs the same as a lot of instruments put together!

Still, I hope the company does well. Its nice to see something new out there.. I love the scales features and the sequencer!

[monomer]

I think they were masterbating more than actually think about it as a usefull instrument.
It's a bit better than the strap-on casio's tho....

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by monomer

I think they were masterbating more than actually think about it as a usefull instrument.
It's a bit better than the strap-on casio's tho....

But, but...it's like a MIDI Chapman Stick! And a Monome! And a breath controller / melodica thingie! And a keytar! All glued together in one! And it can't be used without a computer!

How much? I don't care! Sign me up!

[keybdwizrd]

I think it's great to see something like this, as opposed to so many "new" instruments that aren't really new at all.

I'd certainly rather have one of these things than a Moog Guitar.

[chrisrnps]

I think it's great too, and I'm glad they're doing it, and am always interested in "alternate controllers", but I'm not so sure it's really "new". More of a "mashup" of several previously existing ideas and technologies that are already available separately or in various combinations.

It's pretty and compact and very well implemented, but functionally, not really that far off from nailing a Monome and/or that Akai Ableton Live box, and maybe a Kaos Pad, an iPhone, or a couple touch-strip controllers to a MIDI-pickup-equipped "stick" instrument and putting on a Yamaha breath-controller headset, and cobbling together a software back-end, is it?

And for all that, they've still got regular sustain and expression pedals on the floor.

What, no knobs? No sliders? No D-Beam? No "scribble strip" display?

I dunno. I'm underwhelmed. I can't get past the "Frankenstein of three different existing controller formats stitched together" thing after the long-anticipated "it's a whole new instrument" buzz/hype.

Maybe if the existing "demo" clips didn't show guys playing "hey look, a lower-split standup bass part, an upper-split piano-sample part, and some rudimentary ride-cymbal sounds" cheese-jazz that sound like demo "multi" presets from early-1990s keyboards.

And maybe, just maybe, I'm getting crotchety in my not-nearly-old-enough-to-be-so-blase-already mid-30s, but the "hey, now you only have to learn one fingering pattern, press a button, and it'll automatically remap you to any scale or key" selling point didn't get me excited about the possibilities... it made me almost a little... angry. In a "damn spoiled kids with their Guitar Hero controllers" kinda way.

Mostly, that the demo examples didn't show anything that hasn't already been possible with a Yamaha keyboard with a breath controller input, a button-grid control surface (but it's on a stick instead of a desktop box!), and the like (and sounded like an old Yamaha with a breath controller, as the guy was carrying on about how "new" and "revolutionary" it was, and the tagline is "the next evolution in electronic music making"). Yeah, mostly that.

My hope would be that having things laid out in a different way would make one tend to play different things on it. I guess that's why I'm disappointed that they're choosing to demo cartoonishly middle-of-the-road "built-in factory demo song" sounding music with the thing.

I think it's probably got possibilities, but it's not being demoed - in this very-expensive-to-put-on-gee-have-they-learned-nothing-from-the-mistakes-of-doomed-manufacturers-that-came-before-them "road show" - in a way that showcases that very well.

If they went to town with some sort of crazy polyrhythmic / microtonal / Kraftwerk-being-buggered-by-King-Crimson-in-Sub-Saharan-Africa-only-in-outer-space thing, I'd probably have a different first impression. But this reminds me of when the Kurzweil rep used to come in to showcase the amazing, revolutionary, this'll-make-sounds-you've-never-heard-before Variable Architecture Synthesis Technology by playing cheeze-lounge-jazz with an electric piano sound, followed by a Won't Get Fooled Again cover.

[seen-da-sizer]

Originally Posted by chrisrnps

I dunno. I'm underwhelmed. I can't get past the "Frankenstein of three different existing controller formats stitched together" thing after the long-anticipated "it's a whole new instrument" buzz/hype.

I have to agree. This is a hole pile of bull right there. The Chapman Stick was more inventive/creative than this. Not impressed dfegad

[SkunkFunk]

I just cant see who would buy this...thing...

[e6400ultra]

Originally Posted by SkunkFunk

I just cant see who would buy this...thing...

Perhaps if they revived the '70s/'80s Buck Rodgers series the props department would buy them?

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by SkunkFunk

I just cant see who would buy this...thing...

If I were independently wealthy, and more importantly, single, I'd buy one.

I'd like to see what a Voltron-like amalgamation of Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, Tony Levin, Thomas Dolby, Imogen Heap, and Beermaster with his modular synth rig could do with it.

[e6400ultra]

Originally Posted by chrisrnps

If I were independently wealthy, and more importantly, single, I'd buy one.

And even more importantly, wanted to stay single.

[MonoBrow]

I think its pretty cool.If i had the money i would go for it.

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by T71

And even more importantly, wanted to stay single.

I'm sure the three guys playing Moby covers in their basement on YouTube have a line of groupies out the door. It's the "breath controller guitar face" that gets 'em.

[Llitsor]

The large one you see in the demo vids costs £4000 here in the UK ($6000'ish). They also make a smaller one, for a much more reasonable £350 ($550'ish)

Thats really going from one extreme to the other! Seems a bit too extreme, no? The small one appears to be too limited to do much with it. While the large one looks too expensive for anyone to buy it to do anything with??
I love the flexibility of it, but the lack of a happy medium will either kill the company quickly, or at best consign the Eigenharp to being a rare, niche product.

I like it, but I can't see the likes of Yamaha/Novation/Roland etc etc being too worried.

[seen-da-sizer]

Just browsing the web; then I came across this:



Does anyone else see the resemblance? The picture on the left is from the Blacet web site and labeled: The Syn-Bow circa 1978! Eigenharp Pico on the right, a new instrument!? YEAH RIGHT...

[golden beers]

i think given the chance it could be a very good controller.
i think it would sit well in a pretentious contemporary orchestra.
i think it would appeal to a bunch of academic music nerds.
i think the addition of that fancy-pants breath controller will make sure that no 'cool' musician will ever go near it.
i think it's going the way of the dodo.

[lain2097]

It looks ridiculous. I would never be caught playing that thing.

[golden beers]

...

Originally Posted by lain2097

It looks ridiculous. I would never be caught playing that thing.

Originally Posted by golden beers

no 'cool' musician will ever go near it.

[lain2097]

so ur saying I'm cool?

[Llitsor]

So you guys think it isn't cool just because it's different? Personally, the only thing I don't find cool about it, is the price! (Oh, and the naff demo tunes/sounds)
If you watch the demo's, and read about the ethos behind these things, you'll get where the inventors are coming from.
It's supposed to be a live, more expressive electronic instrument. As cool as you may think knobs, buttons and laptops are, they are no fun for the audience to watch in a live situation. There is no novelty to that anymore. It's been done to death and it's boring.
The Eigenharp looks like a real instrument. And by & large, it is a real instrument. Much more so than some nerd hidden behind the screen of his laptop on stage where the audience doesn't have a forking clue what he's really doing there. Is he playing something? Or is he updating his MySpaz page? You don't honestly know..

A couple of years ago I saw the Chemical Brothers, live. They sounded fantastic. But I never actually saw the guys themselves. Tons of gear on stage, and the light show was very nice n all. Yet they never emerged from behind their laptops. For all I know, it wasn't actually them, and it was a DAT recording. There was zero feeling that they were actually performing anything.
Which is where new performance instruments like this come in. Im not saying this is ideal for the Chems. But you can certainly see artists like for example, Imogen Heap making good use of something like this.

Sure, if you are not a live performer, and are simply more of a bedroom studio hobbyist or whatever, then the Eigenharp isn't really bringing anything new to the table, granted. But the idea is that it puts a strong visual element into performing live electronic music. And thats way cooler than watching the back of some dorks laptop screen any day of the week.

[monomer]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

So you guys think it isn't cool just because it's different? Personally, the only thing I don't find cool about it, is the price! (Oh, and the naff demo tunes/sounds)
If you watch the demo's, and read about the ethos behind these things, you'll get where the inventors are coming from.
It's supposed to be a live, more expressive electronic instrument. As cool as you may think knobs, buttons and laptops are, they are no fun for the audience to watch in a live situation. There is no novelty to that anymore. It's been done to death and it's boring.
The Eigenharp looks like a real instrument. And by & large, it is a real instrument. Much more so than some nerd hidden behind the screen of his laptop on stage where the audience doesn't have a forking clue what he's really doing there. Is he playing something? Or is he updating his MySpaz page? You don't honestly know..

A couple of years ago I saw the Chemical Brothers, live. They sounded fantastic. But I never actually saw the guys themselves. Tons of gear on stage, and the light show was very nice n all. Yet they never emerged from behind their laptops. For all I know, it wasn't actually them, and it was a DAT recording. There was zero feeling that they were actually performing anything.
Which is where new performance instruments like this come in. Im not saying this is ideal for the Chems. But you can certainly see artists like for example, Imogen Heap making good use of something like this.

Sure, if you are not a live performer, and are simply more of a bedroom studio hobbyist or whatever, then the Eigenharp isn't really bringing anything new to the table, granted. But the idea is that it puts a strong visual element into performing live electronic music. And thats way cooler than watching the back of some dorks laptop screen any day of the week.

My most serious concerns with the thing are that is tries to be several things at the same time (but is none of them completely) , looks comical when fully used and besides that there are many way more cooler ways to integrate performance with sound/control.

[lain2097]

No because they're lazy and not doing anything live. Because our music is already electronic in nature it's tempting to just go 'lip-sync'.

Orbital and others rely on hardware sequencers and drum machines but are really doing a 'live' performance.

Getting on stage with that thing would take some serious stones. Playing keys in a band is not exactly 'cool' to begin with.

[keybdwizrd]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

But the idea is that it puts a strong visual element into performing live electronic music. And thats way cooler than watching the back of some dorks laptop screen any day of the week.

Exactly.

I just like the fact that some people, somewhere, are trying to think outside the norm and invent something new. I wish them great success, because their success could help give others incentive to dream up new ways of approaching music, and help bring us new and creative toys to play with.

For me, the Eigenharp is much more interesting than a Moog Voyager OS (gee let's make a synth with no MIDI or patch memory), a Moog guitar (I am a synth guy, not a guitarist), yet another Motif update/clone (how many more nice string pads do I need), or any kind of vintage synth (been there, done that, can we PLEASE move on).

[keybdwizrd]

Originally Posted by lain2097

Getting on stage with that thing would take some serious stones.

Ten bucks says Jordan Rudess does it on his next tour.

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

So you guys think it isn't cool just because it's different?

I think it's not cool because it isn't different, but purports to be.

As cool as you may think knobs, buttons and laptops are, they are no fun for the audience to watch in a live situation... Much more so than some nerd hidden behind the screen of his laptop on stage where the audience doesn't have a forking clue what he's really doing there... And thats way cooler than watching the back of some dorks laptop screen any day of the week.

But...it is just "knobs (OK, two touch-strips and a breath controller), buttons, and laptops" (it's a controller that can't be used without a laptop running proprietary software). It's more complicated than a keytar or Guitar Hero controller, but not fundamentally different in the abstract.

[Llitsor]

Originally Posted by chrisrnps

I think it's not cool because it isn't different, but purports to be.

But...it is just "knobs (OK, two touch-strips and a breath controller), buttons, and laptops" (it's a controller that can't be used without a laptop running proprietary software). It's more complicated than a keytar or Guitar Hero controller, but not fundamentally different in the abstract.

Make your mind up...

Originally Posted by chrisrnps

I think it's great too, and I'm glad they're doing it,

Where would we be if people didn't think outside of the box once in a while? Music software/computers have developed at a tremendous pace. But musical instruments/hardware? Not a lot very exciting has come along in the past few decades (bar the computer itself). Even modern electronic sounds still rely on ancient 'controllers' to play them, for the most part.

With no new ideas or instruments, we'd all probably still be listening to Bach and rocking out on harpsichords.

Maybe this thing will be a miserable failure? Who knows. But I have to hand it to the guys for having the guts to get the thing out there, and maybe inspire other people/companies to try new directions.

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

Where would we be if people didn't think outside of the box once in a while? Music software/computers have developed at a tremendous pace. But musical instruments/hardware? Not a lot very exciting has come along in the past few decades (bar the computer itself). Even modern electronic sounds still rely on ancient 'controllers' to play them, for the most part.

With no new ideas or instruments, we'd all probably still be listening to Bach and rocking out on harpsichords.

This is, almost verbatim, essentially the boilerplate marketing "copy" that almost every manufacturer uses when they come out with a new "alternative" synth controller.

Originally Posted by Llitsor

Make your mind up...

I don't think it's an either/or situation at all. Can't I think something is cool and have criticisms of it? I have gripes about every musical instrument I own, but I love them all.

I'm glad they're trying to do something "different", and I'm glad whenever manufacturers or "inventors" try to do something "different", but wish it were more different than they're saying it is / selling it as.

With all the buzz and hype (and friends and family members emailing me links to it, and the Internet and television going crazy about it, and...), I was really wanting it to be something "revolutionary", and the Suzuki-Omnichord-on-steroids reality is a let-down for me. It's just another controller, and no more interesting than what people around the world have been doing for years with DIY kits and Max/MSP-style software, IMHO.

This is just a different-shaped box that triggers already-existing sounds. Now if it made sound itself, or made sound in a new way, that would be interesting, potentially revolutionary, and a "new instrument". Say, take the way a Variax guitar works, and resynthesize the sound of the strings to make synth sounds instead of modeled-guitar sounds, so it's a "guitar synth" rather than a guitar triggering a synth. Or invent a wind instrument that's really physical modeling, using robotics and nanotechnology to actually change the physical shape of the instrument in real time. Or invent a "new kind of synthesis" - the next "FM" or "physical modeling" or "granular synthesis" or something. Anything. Please.

Thinking outside the box takes more than repackaging preexisting-by-decades stuff into yet another box, in my book. Really revolutionary ideas outstrip their own marketing hype. I'm not so sure this one does.