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dual0568
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#1
16th September 2009
Old 16th September 2009
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Does Reason sound better?

I haven't used Reason in ~6 years. The last time I used it, the sound quality was of noticeably lower quality than sequencers'. It was like a sheet was being put over everything--very nasty sounding.

I YouTube'd a few videos, and it still seems like the sound quality is slightly degraded. But this can probably be contributed to poor YouTube quality, and the fact that the majority of videos on YouTube are not rewired into a host sequencer. Would love to hear your feedback
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16th September 2009
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Why don't you just download the trial version of Reason 4 and test it?

Just make sure that you remove the Mastering Combinator. Personally I think Thor was a big step forward; not so fond of the M-Class EQ/comp.
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never had issues with reasons sound quality and i know people who make amazing sounding music with it. the one thing i don't like is the EQ but i think the record mixer should have solved that problem.
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other 3rd party VST/DX EQ & compression, & effects like "tube" plugins sound better than Reason.
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16th September 2009
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Reason is good, if you know what you are doing. The problem I find with reason is that everyone and their mother owns it and 90% of people are using the patches that come with it. If that is the case, well, it's not the best thing out there in terms of presets. However, if you know how to program synths and use the tools effectively, the sound quality is fantastic and the possibilities are endless.
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16th September 2009
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Yep that combinator mastering plugin does indeed suck, rewiring Reason into say Logic and sticking some master bus stuff there helps an awful lot.

I also think the quality of the supplied demo tunes is awful, they just sound horrible for some reason - all mids and flat sounding. Again due to the quality of the built-in FX I think - they're not all bad, but some of those FX stink big time IMHO!

Quite frankly I wouldn't bother with Reason unless you want something to run on a underpowered PC. There are far better choices that are just as fun.... Renoise is WAY better sounding for example.
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16th September 2009
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Yes v4 sounds much better than v2 that you would have been on 6 years ago. For best results just avoid Reasons mixer and effects.



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16th September 2009
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I think it sounds better ReWired
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16th September 2009
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sounds the same now then it did back then. reason why u think so is you might have used the preset sounds (which most are still present today) and/or did not use ur own sounds.

also reason sounds the same as any other sequencer.

a flute can only sound like a flue to many times, weather its on a fantom, reason, hypersonic. same shit with the same tools to you the same outcome.

just use what works with your workflow. thats the best option
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17th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
also reason sounds the same as any other sequencer.
This is not a crumby summing discussion where I would tend to agree.

We're talking the sum of all the parts here and some of the parts in Reason are pretty basic, naff sounding and built originally to run on Pentium II class machines (Propellerhead Reason 1.0 Review). Bear in mind we can't consider Reason the same as a normal DAW because it's a sealed box - you get what you're supplied nothing more. No VST, nothing.

Can you get it to sound ok, yes of course, but takes some effort and you only get some very basic tools. Perfectly useful for composition or rewiring though.
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17th September 2009
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Yea I'm in the crossroads of thinking about using the reason/record combo but the only thing that concerns me is were are the high-quality sounds that compare atleast vst's I use like Nexus and Omnisphere.I just havent found any sound libraries that are outstanding.Im new to programming synths so a good collection of great sounds is a must for me.Thats the only reason I havent switched to reason.
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17th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dual0568 View Post
I haven't used Reason in ~6 years. The last time I used it, the sound quality was of noticeably lower quality than sequencers'. It was like a sheet was being put over everything--very nasty sounding.

I YouTube'd a few videos, and it still seems like the sound quality is slightly degraded. But this can probably be contributed to poor YouTube quality, and the fact that the majority of videos on YouTube are not rewired into a host sequencer. Would love to hear your feedback
It sounds great with temperatures between 18-25 C and especially if it rains outside, its sounds very badly on sunny days and very weird in stary nights with full moon.

Its all about timing.....
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17th September 2009
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I'm also interested in this thread. I tried Reason years ago. Have also listened to various demos over the years.

I originally thought the synths were fine, though the effects were truly awful, even for the time. I have heard some absolutely fantastic things come from the synths though. They can do things that my VA hardware can't, and that's a plus for me. Also easy to use.

I only ever used it in ReWire, which I thought worked well, and was easy to handle. I didn't care much for the sequencer, and couldn't be bothered learning two sequencers when ReWire would integrate the rack for me. Seems as though the effects may have still not cought up yet. I still think some of the synth demos speak well for the platform.
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17th September 2009
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Reason has been pretty consistent sounding for me over the years.

The M-class compressor and M-class Stereo Imager, and is nice as well as RV7000 reverb.

Thor is pretty badass synth as well.
Combinator makes for some interesting situations as well.

IMO though, the synths need a LOT of tweaking from the default patches to get it to sound right. If you're a 'tweaker' then get reason. If you want to just play and go... look else where.
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17th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoL View Post
This is not a crumby summing discussion where I would tend to agree.

We're talking the sum of all the parts here and some of the parts in Reason are pretty basic, naff sounding and built originally to run on Pentium II class machines (Propellerhead Reason 1.0 Review). Bear in mind we can't consider Reason the same as a normal DAW because it's a sealed box - you get what you're supplied nothing more. No VST, nothing.

Can you get it to sound ok, yes of course, but takes some effort and you only get some very basic tools. Perfectly useful for composition or rewiring though.
not to be an ass but everything u said was total false besides that it cant be looked at like all the other daws (besides record kinda)

reason DOSE sound the dead on same from version 1 till now. load both and test the same patches (on a blank template) ull see its the same.

what is in reason is not all what u get. thats 10034534534% false.

it dose not take alot of work to make good sounds in reason thats 24353452% false AGAIN!

one more time. im not being an ass. i just cant stand when people try to say facts with their own bias in the way. its just not right. if u dont like the program thats ok. everything is not for everyone but the statements you did say where all false and i can back up and prove my claims.

this will be my last post in this thread.
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18th September 2009
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
not to be an ass
Hey I want to be an ass too!!! lol

Ok lets take things step by step.

1) Reason has one of the best samplers in the industry NN-XT with two elements that make it so powerful : a) easy , b) powerful . Dont take my claim as is, most self respecting magazine have given more than enough praise to this sampler

2) Maalstorm is one of the best if not the best graintable synthesis synth , that sounds great. Graintable is no longer the big news, but bare in mind that when first came out it was huge. It still is one of the best synths, for weird sounds and timbres

3) Substractor, is dead easy to use and consumes almost 0% of processing power . Think of it as Synth1 on steroids. Like synth1 , does not sound great to you, then layer it and layer it and layer it ......

4) The Vocoder is a bad sun of the beach, capable into turning in a mutli band eq editing down to partial level !!!!... very powerful stuff

5) MATRIX is one of the most sophisticated arpeggiators ... When it first came out other DAWS were "Arpeggi.... what ?"

6) Effects section more than satisfying , and they have been a standard feature when Cubase an effect or a capable synth was a big luxury

7) Reason, is closed ... yeap it is a very good thing... its stable as rock, never crashes never surrenders. The only thing that comes close is Ableton Live.

8) Again its closed... again another bonus... you can study thousands of reason songs, the only thing that can make a song incompatible with your Reason are Refills . Excellent for beginners. Not available in any other Daw.

9) REWIRE... Invented the thing.... Looking for a DAW that will works hand in hand with your DAW ... look no further ... the best of the best...

10) the routing is just insane... route everything to anything

11) interface "brain dead" friendly.... your are completely noob... no problem...

12) Lighter on CPU and RAM than a bowl of Kellogs ... It was only thing that could run shit loads of synths in my Crappy old 200Mhz Pentium, when other DAWs were collapsing behind it. On a Dual Core it just wrecks havoc, on quad well , I dont want to go there.

13) Thor is the only thing I heard that comes close to analog sound... it does not get better sounding than this.

14) Refills , refills, refills.... Probably the biggest preset machine in the world... many of the refills are completely free too.. Think of each refill a zip with thousands of samples and presets.

15) Many, many more.... sorry I am running out of ink

The only thing that was crap on Reason is the inability to record audio and the sequencer. The first one remains even though the new software from the same company RECORD tries to fill the gap and claims to work hand in hand with reason from inside reason as one application. Cant vouch it as I never tried it.

The Sequencer was really bad, not in terms of ease of use but in terms it lacked some standard features. But all were fixed with the latest version. The Sequencer now is still not the best, but will keep you more than happy.

Of course there many,many other thing in Reason , which make it maybe the biggest temptation in music software. The 3 killer elements in reason are , ease of use, uniqueness, light.... No other DAW excels in that area and that is why many tracks made with Reason sounds great and cover almost all musical ranges.

Oh did I say that its the only software that can safely claim that is a REAL WORKSTATION , comparing it with hardware equivalents ?

I am no longer a REASON user for a very long time , as I barely use Ableton Live and I use hardware for anything else. But if there was 1 software I could completely return to that would be REASON by very far. Respect to other DAWs that excel in other areas, but in its area REASON eats them alive.

Also it would be insane to think that you can get a better more complete music software than Reason at its price.
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18th September 2009
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
not to be an ass but everything u said was total false besides that it cant be looked at like all the other daws (besides record kinda)
Bit of a blanket statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
reason DOSE sound the dead on same from version 1 till now. load both and test the same patches (on a blank template) ull see its the same.
I'm lost, who said it doesn't sound the same as version 1 - I was pointing out it does and was written to be light not excel in sound quality!


Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
what is in reason is not all what u get. thats 10034534534% false.
This statement doesn't make sense whatsoever. Of course you only get what they supply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
it dose not take alot of work to make good sounds in reason thats 24353452% false AGAIN!

one more time. im not being an ass. i just cant stand when people try to say facts with their own bias in the way. its just not right. if u dont like the program thats ok. everything is not for everyone but the statements you did say where all false and i can back up and prove my claims.
It's an Internet forum post! Of course it is my opinion. You're welcome to disagree, but you should see the irony in your criticism of my post - and do you really think sticking 93874837237347% on every statement backs them up and makes them fact? tutt

I think the some of the synths (subtractor) are weak and thin (Thor is ok though), the compressors and imagers are pants and the mixer is questionable. Other components are fine - sample based instruments, RV7000 etc. Again all my opinion.

Who said I didn't like Reason? I have a paid for copy and do use it sometimes. I said it's fine as a scratchpad and re-wired to a DAW. I just don't think you're going to get anything sounding like a finished product out of it without further work. [Reason not Record BTW which I haven't used]

You see I'm capable of being objective, learn this before flying off the handle!
#18
18th September 2009
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J1mbaFr0sty View Post
reason DOSE sound the dead on same from version 1 till now. load both and test the same patches (on a blank template) ull see its the same.
This is not hard to prove and would even be logical. However, that's not what he said.

It's why NN-19 was kept when NN-XT was added; backwards compatibility. The last thing you want is to go back and re-do all your projects all over again just because an effect has a "classic mode" added or something.

Quote:
what is in reason is not all what u get. thats 10034534534% false.
Percentages do not make truth; facts do. It is "all you get" in the sense that you can't incorporate other effects or instruments than those available in Reason; all you can do is either Rewire or use refills, which are simply sample/preset libraries.

The Combinator is a great concept (and Native Instruments shamelessly copied it). Thor's a great synth. I'll be first in line to admit that, and I don't underestimate Reason. Let's not get carried away, though.

Now, for the rest:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilon View Post
1) Reason has one of the best samplers in the industry NN-XT with two elements that make it so powerful : a) easy , b) powerful . Dont take my claim as is, most self respecting magazine have given more than enough praise to this sampler
Kontakt does all NN-XT does, plus:
- has keyswitching (incredibly useful for orchestral libraries) without depending on a Combinator to do that stuff for it
- has scripting (which means you can trigger different samples with the same velocity on the same key; this eliminates the machinegun effect)
- can use the full screen (it's resizable instead of only 800 pixels wide)
- can deal with a wide variety of formats (from legacy E-mu ESI disks to Akai samples)

Quote:
5) MATRIX is one of the most sophisticated arpeggiators ... When it first came out other DAWS were "Arpeggi.... what ?"
Matrix is a step sequencer, not an arpeggiator. Even then, Cubase's Arpache (already present in version 5 VST) easily kicks the crap out of RPG-8 (for starters, it's not monophonic).

Quote:
12) Lighter on CPU and RAM than a bowl of Kellogs ... It was only thing that could run shit loads of synths in my Crappy old 200Mhz Pentium, when other DAWs were collapsing behind it. On a Dual Core it just wrecks havoc, on quad well , I dont want to go there.
This is not necessarily an advantage. DCAM shows us that advances in modeling require more computer power.

It's not like Thor was impossible to build back then; it's that it would only have given the low-end computers a single voice of polyphony after a 3 second wait.
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18th September 2009
Old 18th September 2009
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Just want to add my (unbiased) opinion based on my testing/research a bit over a year ago.

Basically I had been using Reason for years and decided I wanted to add some real electric guitar and vocals. So I got Logic Express and rewired reason into it.
I couldn't resist downloading demo VSTs just to play around - after all I hadn't been able to with only reason.

My instant impression after using for example NI Massive besides Reason was a comfirmation of something I had felt for quite a while: Reason does sound thin. Even when layered and routed to hell and back, dedicated VSTs run circles around it. They just sound MUCH better.

I definitely think that the instruments/effects and possibilities in Reason are awesome. I just find the sonic qualities severely lacking.

Nowadays I am 100% Logic + a selection of 3rd party synths and effects (Massive, Alchemy, Synth Squad, PSP stuff, D16 stuff). I am not looking back.

Again, this is purely based on my own experience, I am not a "fanboy" either way. If you are at a crossroads, be sure to test out your options carefully before investing in something.

Good luck!
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18th September 2009
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I'm the one who said it sounds better now. My own personal opinion is yes they have improved the mix engine, just like Ableton has with Live. Sure Subtractor probably sounds the same now as then (shite), but the addition of all the new instruments and processors since v2 makes a huge difference. I've used it since version 2 btw, and never with its own sounds/presets.

my favourite bits in reason are:
all the modulation options
redrum
scream
nnxt
thor

As for the question if its good enough to produce with, thats been beaten to death on this forum already. Its a great program for what it is, and super easy for newbies to learn. Lots of big names using it, mostly rewired, some exclusively. I have a mate who's only been producing about 3 years, the stuff he makes using just Reason is out of this world, sonically as good as anything I'll do with Logic and hardware.


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18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
As for the question if its good enough to produce with, thats been beaten to death on this forum already. Its a great program for what it is, and super easy for newbies to learn. Lots of big names using it, mostly rewired, some exclusively. I have a mate who's only been producing about 3 years, the stuff he makes using just Reason is out of this world, sonically as good as anything I'll do with Logic and hardware.
A good summary. Of course you can get good results out of it if used carefully (like most things). I still wouldn't dream of mastering/finalising a mix in there personally, just not as good as any other DAW; if it supported plugins this wouldn't be an issue. Easily fixed with Rewire of course which also gets you far more variety in mix tooling.

Also I would point out that saving CPU will almost always involve compromise. Whilst being a closed system and not supporting plug-ins no doubt means more opportunity for optimisation (lightweight APIs, system optimised as a whole etc), I doubt this explains completely why it's so CPU light.

Just don't be suprised if the Reason FX and instruments suffer quite badly from things like aliasing. Does that stop it being usable - not at all - but this might explain why some of us think not everything about it sounds as good as other solutions.
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18th September 2009
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I agree that Reason default sounds seem to sound "flat", but using it with rewire and some DAW comp/exciters/eq can have very good results I think ...
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18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daal View Post
I agree that Reason default sounds seem to sound "flat", but using it with rewire and some DAW comp/exciters/eq can have very good results I think ...
Very true. I got very good results out of Reason this way. However, the saying "polish a turd" comes to mind.

Again, I really like Reason, but when comparing the raw Reason output with VST synths, my choice was extremely easy. Logic + plugs without question. IMHO, YMMV. Etc.
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18th September 2009
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20th September 2009
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Reason refills done by the professionals will blow your mind.... this means simply, that if you know what you are doing, Reason 3 or 4 can make incredible sounds.

I've seen patches that contain about 10 different FX and instruments to create 1 unique patch.

No way Reason sucks.... I use it alongside Cubase as rewire and alot of the patches that I found are simply insane. I'd say most of the sounds are better than any VSTi I just have too many refills to go thru to be able to tell you what they are called.

2 Purely awesome refills off hand are these :

XS Synth and Bitlord Wavefront - 2 must have refills for Synth lovers.

Also...Reason 4 is not a CPU hog for what you get out of it. I don't use it's SEQ so it's no biggie. It's arp features are astounding if you know how to wire things up and make them even more complicated.

Read Reason 4 Power and watch some vids on it and you'll fall in love with it. I didn't use it at all until I watched the videos on it realizing all it can do.
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20th September 2009
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26th September 2009
Old 26th September 2009
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I love the Reason 4.01 Program its Great a lot of things can be tweaked. I rewire into Pro Tools for further editing and get great results and very good sound quality for all my Hip Hop production.
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26th September 2009
Old 26th September 2009
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reason would be a huge great vst but it's only a very good rewired tools (not so hard to use i admit)

but :

1) you can't seriouly mix with it (still 16 or 24 bit summing engine if i remember compare to 32/64 floatting point engine or even 48 bit fixed point you have in the other host, the sonic difference in term of quality is huge and you ear it when you bypass the mixing engine with rewire you recover all the space, deepness in your sound because the master rewired host have a better and more accurate summing engine like any other modern DAW that all sound the same (except with the pan law and some special tools you can desactivate like warp function in live for instance).

2) reason fx are outdated and sound ridiculous compare to actual vst (they sound better in record, record = 32 or 64 floatting point engine)

so when you try to complete a mix inside reason only, it always sounds muddy (and the more tracks you use, the more muddy feeling you have).

a vst version of reason (where you can create your own combirack with any muddy mixer) would be a good thing, rewired work well but we are in 2009 and vst technology is just easy to use

i don't have any link to prove what i say (i saw that somewhere on the web few month ago), but i think this is the main explaination of why reason sound so bad for those who mix on others daw
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26th September 2009
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ive tried it more than once, with stock sounds and with high quality sound banks. it has always sounded pretty bad to my ears. no matter what i did to make it sound better, it never got there. I have also mastered a few cd's that were done with reason. those are always tough mastering sessions. ya can't polish a ....
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13th August 2010
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These days I'm only using Logic 9 but recently I've discovered that using some of the Reason sounds alongside works quite well, I have to admit.
Reason is good for its ease of use, possibilities, step sequencer, arpeggiator and quite a few synth/pad sounds.
Drums and basses, reverbs, other effects and mixes in general sound sh*te unless extensively tweaked but even then some are beyond help.
To me what matters is getting best results with minimum effort so whichever way I start a song, I always aim to minimise fruitlessness and frustration.
I found that sketching in Reason and then exporting a midi fiel and wavs/aiffs of the sounds I like into Logic is quite a good idea.

Tune called Dreaming away was created exactly like that.
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