Sick of the computer screen !

[hankdrummer]

hello there

what's the best and cheapest keyboard sampling workstations ?

just need those three things : a keyboard + a built-in sampler + a built-in sequencer that's EASY to use. something like a MPC with keys instead of pads.

doesn't have to be fancy, just has to WORK.

any idea ?

thanks !

[space2012]

Sick of the computer screen !

the new LG 54series with 50.000:1 contrast ratio look amazing.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

just need those three things : a keyboard + a built-in sampler + a built-in sequencer that's EASY to use. something like a MPC with keys instead of pads.
doesn't have to be fancy, just has to WORK.
any idea ?
thanks !

MPC2500 + a keyboard midi controller.

[hankdrummer]

too expensive !

and i'd prefer to have only one keyboard than a MPC + an external keyboard

those workstations are so expensive ! seems like you have to spend 2000$ to get a keyboard with a sampler

stuff like ensoniq ASR10 are nice but the sequencer ain't that great it seems, and i don't want to go back to that SCSI nightmare

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

just need those three things : a keyboard + a built-in sampler + a built-in sequencer that's EASY to use. something like a MPC with keys instead of pads.

Yamaha RS-7000 + midi keyboard gives you all you need. Make sure the RS-7000 has expansion board for total of 8 outputs. Expand it with 64 MB RAM, add a 128 MB smart media card and buy external SCSI HD for big storage. And you got a kick ass sequencer + sampler + resampler + synth + hard disk recorder (limited to 64MB RAM). Only limit is your imagination.

There is just one downside - no crossfade loop. You'll have to do that on the PC. Also, get yourself a card reader, to transfer samples and backup your SM cards (used in RS-7000). You can also get a PC SCSI card and connect the scsi HD between the PC and RS-7000 to transfer large amounts of samples, etc. Once on the disk, you no longer need to use the PC.

Yeah i actually hate the PC too. Download the RS-7000 manual, to give you idea what this baby can do.

[cosmos]

with the new studio setup beeing build i moved the screen to far the side of the console....away from my sight, what a great change a small move does.. mixing is even better now when you have nothing to focus but sound
i know it has nothing to do with the OP question ... i just hate pc screens.

[Reptil]

great idea, however I need it in front of me sometimes. (like now)
solution?
turn the screen off, even if running a softsynth? (using a controller)
composing with a screen? sometimes. mixing is sometimes great.
brains function differently when in front of a screen.
also in neon light, but that's another thing
using emu command station, es-1, xbase09, and MCV-24 doepfer
no screen needed
RS7000 is a good option (and cheap now). MPC? also I think.

[Slik dA Relic]

comin soon in october for $999:

We're About to Change the Game!

of course if u dont wanna spend a grand... i'd get an RS7000 in a heartbeat... especially since i have one already.

da relic

[viewingstuff]

Ensoniq ESQ-1 keyboard and an E-mu ESI-32 rack sampler. The sequencer in the ESQ-1 rocks and the ESI-32 is basically an EMAX III. Total would be less than $250(100-150 for esq and 75-100 for the esi). The sequencer on the esq is maybe the easiest and most intuitive ever made. No menus, everything has a dedicated button, everything logically laid out and it has a huge screen that you can read from a mile away. This is my second ESQ recommendation today btw.

The screen is LED, forgot to mention.

[Yoozer]

So the solution for a screen you hate is a smaller screen that is worse.

Get something with .wav compatibility and a graphical display like the RS or the MPC. Akai S5000 isn't expensive anymore either. The fact that those vintage Roland samplers came with monitor and mouse connections should say enough.

The endless menu diving with the ESI will become a chore that's going to irritate you even more. I've got the 4000 and it's a doorstop.

[peglegjoe857]

Just get an MPC-60 and a small midi controller.

There ARE no good comprehensive keyboard based sampler/sequencers that are cheap.

It's just a keyboard and a midi cable difference! you could get an M-audio oxygen, akai mpk... or any other compact keyboard, for that matter.

Simply put... the MPC has the best hardware sequencer EVER made... pretty much. Sequencing in an ASR is ok. My buddy has an ASR-X.. but the MPC is just organized way better.

[viewingstuff]

I've actually been eyeing the ESI-32 since my Roland S-750 is not designed for the Hip-Hop, chop-til-u-drop work flow. That machine is made for loading pre-sampled sounds and instruments. Dang now the ESI is slow to work with too? I read the ESI-32 manual and it said I can make a template with no samples in it and then whenever I take a sample with the template, the new sample will go wherever the current selected preset is, like the Mirage and EMAX. Ok I just figured out the deal since I won't be doing any programming or synthesis just sampling record after record and chopping I think it should be easy to use(don't scare me like that! although I wouldn't say no to an EMAX either, please don't tell me they're difficult).

[Yoozer]

The MPC is awesome for chop till you drop because you can record from vinyl and see where the kick and snare are - and it can auto-chop the wave in 16 parts and map them rightaway. With the ESI you see a number that denotes the start and stop (I think it just throws away the remainder, too, so you have to copy the original several times), and you have to assign everything yourself.

I understand people buying MPCs. Immediacy. I understand people who buy E4XTs or Emax. Character and filters. I understand people who buy an S5K. It's a flagship model and a workhorse. The ESI is like the S2000 - cheap and mostly a footnote in sampling history. Everything with a higher model number still won't break the bank but -will- do a better job.

[peglegjoe857]

I use an MPC-60, mirage, s-1000, and Emax rack. I have plenty of experience with the s-2000, s3000, and s900 as well.

For hip hop go with the Emax. It isn't as cheap as the S series akai, but it is MUCH easier... it's got that 12-bit sp-1200 type crunch.. but it also cleans up nicer than the sp-1200 when you want it to. It is REALLY easy to deal with. There are TOTAL about 6 settings before you sample, and once they have been set you really only have to change ONE setting for every new sample... unless the volume or length of the sample change... or if you want to change the sample-rate or whatever.

The S-900 is also really quick and easy and sounds amazing. I would have one still if I didn't have the MPC-60. But I think that the Emax is an easier machine... and it is much better sounding too. Saying that it is better sounding, though, will differ person to person. BUT the thing with the S-900 is that it often goes for a hundred bucks! The 950 distracts a lot of people from the 900, but the 900 is a GREAT machine too and gets forgotten.

Either machine will do hip-hop nicely. Better than that Roland sampler, IMHO.

If you need to chop up the breaks, it is of course a lot more manual. There is no auto chop solution on these old machines, you have to WORK to get that your sound. It is never given to you. And Premo still uses the S-950 because he KNOWS this. If you want one sample chopped to several parts, you will have to sample it several times to different spots and then chop them individually.

Originally Posted by Bravo

I've actually been eyeing the ESI-32 since my Roland S-750 is not designed for the Hip-Hop, chop-til-u-drop work flow. That machine is made for loading pre-sampled sounds and instruments. Dang now the ESI is slow to work with too? I read the ESI-32 manual and it said I can make a template with no samples in it and then whenever I take a sample with the template, the new sample will go wherever the current selected preset is, like the Mirage and EMAX. Ok I just figured out the deal since I won't be doing any programming or synthesis just sampling record after record and chopping I think it should be easy to use(don't scare me like that! although I wouldn't say no to an EMAX either, please don't tell me they're difficult).

[peglegjoe857]

OH and don't forget the ASR-X. People always forget to mention this thing! Built in FX based on the same chips Ensoniq put into their DP range... amazing sounds! Yeah, the pads might be a little bizarre for those used to the nice bounce of MPC pads... but at easily less than 200 bucks it CAN NOT be beat.

And sampling on this thing is a BREEZE! My buddy has one. It has a handful of settings and once they are set you push ONE button, sample, stop the sample, choose which pad/pads to put it on. REPEAT. REPEAT. REPEAT. So fast! And it also has a pretty dope bit reduction feature. It sounds nothing like my Emax, MPC-60, Mirage, or the S-900 I used to have... but it is a cool little instant low fi tool to play with!

And I can't stress this ENOUGH. THOSE EFFECTS man. They are so dope for the price! For an effects box ALONE it is worth it!

I don't know why people don't recognize the VALUE of this machine. I don't personally own one, because I have the MPC-60... but if I didn't have one there would be NO question about what I would go for. I am even considering getting one ANY way, less than 200 bucks?!?! Shit, I will get rid of my S-1000 to get one!

[viewingstuff]

I hoped it wouldn't happen again but once again I am thoroughly confused! Revelation time, I'll use the Command Station to run an S900 which will be used strictly for drums, and it will also run an ASR-X for samples and have them side by side. This way I won't have to change tracks to hear either the drums or the samples because there'll be two sets of pads. (i'd still have to get the asrx,s900,emax). The more I read here though the more I think just the EMAX + S900 for drums would be an Illmatic combo. I still have the Roland for stereo samples and the totally phenomenal which I just tried for the first time recently, wave draw click removal technique. I couldn't even hear any skip in the sample it was beautiful. I think the S900/50 have a similar sonic character to the Roland with the black/white haze it puts on the sound with the de/re-emphasizing and all. I can't get drums on the Roland to punch like a 12 bit machine(which i've never owned!?) unless I layer properly. Then it's ok but not no SP/950.

I am very intrigued about how the EMAX sounds on drums at max sample rate. I hear everyone talk about using samplers at lower rates for 'that' sound but I would only use them at max rate for drums. After watching a few youtube beats by EMAX users who happened to be very great, I'd say overall the Emu sound is a warm, smoldering, punchy, dynamic with a green army issued camouflage haze over it while the Akai S900 has a........clearer, warm, compressed, punchy, dynamic with a black and white tv snow haze over it......er, sound. This is based on listening to rap records since the mid 80's not owning. Yo I need to get one of these machines d'oh!

[peglegjoe857]

Just get both of them! Hah. They are cheap enough that you can do that kind of thing! When you get into the SP-1200/MPC-3000 realm then price is an issue... but the Emax can be scored for 200 easily and the S-900 for cheaper.

So if you have seen Emax/S-900 youtube videos, you have likely watched one of mine because there aren't too many:





I must add that these vids by NO means show what I do musically. I don't even DO hip-hop... but I do have a love for hip-hop and when you own as many classic hip-hop machines as I do it is hard to resits.

Originally Posted by Bravo

I hoped it wouldn't happen again but once again I am thoroughly confused! Revelation time, I'll use the Command Station to run an S900 which will be used strictly for drums, and it will also run an ASR-X for samples and have them side by side. This way I won't have to change tracks to hear either the drums or the samples because there'll be two sets of pads. (i'd still have to get the asrx,s900,emax). The more I read here though the more I think just the EMAX + S900 for drums would be an Illmatic combo. I still have the Roland for stereo samples and the totally phenomenal which I just tried for the first time recently, wave draw click removal technique. I couldn't even hear any skip in the sample it was beautiful. I think the S900/50 have a similar sonic character to the Roland with the black/white haze it puts on the sound with the de/re-emphasizing and all. I can't get drums on the Roland to punch like a 12 bit machine(which i've never owned!?) unless I layer properly. Then it's ok but not no SP/950.

I am very intrigued about how the EMAX sounds on drums at max sample rate. I hear everyone talk about using samplers at lower rates for 'that' sound but I would only use them at max rate for drums. After watching a few youtube beats by EMAX users who happened to be very great, I'd say overall the Emu sound is a warm, smoldering, punchy, dynamic with a green army issued camouflage haze over it while the Akai S900 has a........clearer, warm, compressed, punchy, dynamic with a black and white tv snow haze over it......er, sound. This is based on listening to rap records since the mid 80's not owning. Yo I need to get one of these machines d'oh!

[viewingstuff]

Yes I have seen and added your videos and I thank you for that. So far on youtube/online I've found two people that do hard core hip hop and use emax.'Eats Beats' samples into the emax then samples the emax into mpc and 'Cream of Beats' does vise-versa. Both of their beats are...I wouldn't say 'sick' that's cliched I'd cal them fricken nuts. I think it's that machine!

Eats Beats - I Am Alive

Eats Beats - Ease My Mind

Cream of Beats - Smoke Freestyle

Cream of Beats Soundclick

[kreeper_6]

Originally Posted by peglegjoe857

Simply put... the MPC has the best hardware sequencer EVER made... pretty much.

Sorry, IMO the Yamaha's Rm1x & RS7000 (Nice improvement) is king. I think Yamy should release something new.

[peglegjoe857]

Those cream of beats tracks sound pretty dope! And that eats beats kid... shit, he is younger than me! I was born in 85, he in 86! haha.

Yeah, frankly I do a few genres, mainly I use the samplers as a production tool. My drummer and I have done a lot of indie music and parted ways with a lot of musicians (still friends of course) but he and I stuck together and it is really difficult to write whole arrangements with just two people. So when we have a dope drum part, or bass riff, or guitar riff, wurlitzer riff, rhodes riff... whatever... we sample it.. loop it.. jam along with it and continue writing. We actually have devised a pretty deep process using these machines.

It's dope having an MPC because you can actually PLAY your samples. On a computer you can too of course but it gets a little deep and by the time you are doing it, you are so far away from the idea of using a REAL instrument.

Any who, if you want to see what I think is some DOPE hip hop production, there is this guy:



Sp-1200. A classic machine with an amazing sound! Know that if you get the Emax you can get that Sp-1200 sound. Anybody who says otherwise is only justifying to themselves spending over a grand on a machine that is beat by a 200$ machine.They can sound different, yes.. but mark my words AND SOUND YOU CAN GET ON THE SP-1200, YOU CAN GET ON THE EMAX.

But the trick is to not think about the whole "oh it doesn't sound the same as an SP-1200 so it doesn't sound any good" thing. The trick is like with ANY machines... does it sound dope, or does it sound like shit?

Lemme tell you, the Emax sounds ****ing dope. You will agree, and so will any producer with real talent.

There are those DXA guys. Talented hip hop producers, they use the SP-1200, the Emax, S-900, MPC-60, MPC-3000 and who knows what else.

Originally Posted by Bravo

Yes I have seen and added your videos and I thank you for that. So far on youtube/online I've found two people that do hard core hip hop and use emax.'Eats Beats' samples into the emax then samples the emax into mpc and 'Cream of Beats' does vise-versa. Both of their beats are...I wouldn't say 'sick' that's cliched I'd cal them fricken nuts. I think it's that machine!

Eats Beats - I Am Alive

Eats Beats - Ease My Mind

Cream of Beats - Smoke Freestyle

Cream of Beats Soundclick

[peglegjoe857]

Different kinds of sequencers, of course. You could say that from a performance instrument point of view, to me nothing can beat the feel of the pads on the MPC-60.. or MPC-3000. If you are into step editing, sure the Yamaha probably beats the MPC. The MPC wasn't really made for that, ya know. Put at writing patterns on the fly... playing patterns, ya know... you just can't touch the MPC. It's much more performance oriented. I mean, there is the quantize.. but you still have to have SOMEWHAT of a sense of rhythm, which is good.

I ditched the computer because I didn't want to do the whole "write a pattern using a stupid looking pencil" thing anymore. I wanted something that I could play EVERY riff that goes into a sequence. I mean, sometimes when I want to write an arpeggio I have to slow the tempo down and play out each note. But I guess you could say that to me the MPC is personally the best sequencer every made. Although, I have only owned a few others and have never tried the Yamaha. I gather that they are an extension of the Roland XOX method. It's a good method of techno, house, trance, acid, and other genres like this.. but these genres aren't as performance oriented.

And a machine that is based around sequencing and sampling... pads... etc, you cannot deny that it is not more performance oriented. I think...

Originally Posted by kreeper_6

Sorry, IMO the Yamaha's Rm1x & RS7000 (Nice improvement) is king. I think Yamy should release something new.

[shadowfac]

Originally Posted by peglegjoe857

I ditched the computer because I didn't want to do the whole "write a pattern using a stupid looking pencil" thing anymore. I wanted something that I could play EVERY riff that goes into a sequence.

You do know that you can also record a live performance, either as audio or MIDI, with most (if not all) DAW programs, right?

[peglegjoe857]

Yeah, I used to do that. My drummer and I would crank out lots of jamming. We would try to cut it up and make something out of it but it never worked out. I was always more distracted by everything sounding like shit.

Using a computer is just a bizarre thing to me... well for music. I understand why it is common practice... but I would say the difference between painting and graphic design is about equal.

Getting out a brush and painting and moving the paint around on the canvas... it's something you can feel and interact with. When I sample a beat I can physically interact with the beat, play it, etc.

I just don't like computers. I am one of "THOSE" people.

Originally Posted by shadowfac

You do know that you can also record a live performance, either as audio or MIDI, with most (if not all) DAW programs, right?

[hankdrummer]

hey everyone

- as is said, i want "something like a MPC with keys instead of pads."

- this is just for pre-production. just to find some ideas. that thing would be in a separate room from my studio, anywhere. i use Logic Pro for the "finished product".

i've owned a lot of hardware (MPC 2000XL, E-MU E6400, E-MU ESI 32, Ensoniq DP-2, Nord Lead, Micromodular, Akai Z-4 ...). sold everything and went software for the convenience of it.

it's true the MPC has one of the best hardware sequencer, but its sampler doesn't have ADSR, only AD. you can't load and play a piano or a rhodes with a MPC, unless it is a MPC 5000 (but i don't have the bucks for a 5000 !)

[Slik dA Relic]

i guess then it between a used ASRX, RS7000... or a brand new Beat Thang...lol... those are ur choices... if ur on a budget and need something now, i'd say the RS... but if u can wait, that Beat Thang is lookin rather promising.

da relic

[harness]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

hey everyone

- as is said, i want "something like a MPC with keys instead of pads."

- this is just for pre-production. just to find some ideas. that thing would be in a separate room from my studio, anywhere. i use Logic Pro for the "finished product".

i've owned a lot of hardware (MPC 2000XL, E-MU E6400, E-MU ESI 32, Ensoniq DP-2, Nord Lead, Micromodular, Akai Z-4 ...). sold everything and went software for the convenience of it.

it's true the MPC has one of the best hardware sequencer, but its sampler doesn't have ADSR, only AD. you can't load and play a piano or a rhodes with a MPC, unless it is a MPC 5000 (but i don't have the bucks for a 5000 !)

Straight out, the RS7000 as a preproduction idea pad. 2 octaves of keys and 2 pads(all of the MPC vids I watch, they only end up playing 2 pads at a time anyway) tons of knobs. An able tone generator inside.

Going for sub $500 theres nothing that beats it in that price range.

An MPC 2500 with the latest JJ OS expands it to a 4000 level with multisamples and crossfade looping. You could play piano on it depending if you lay the pads out chromatically, and only 1 octave at a time(work around with overdubs) And all the convieniece of compatibility(usb, cf cards, internal HD) but thats $1000+

[hankdrummer]

seems like that JJ OS adds ADSR to the MPC 1000 as well !

cool stuff ... very interesting

anyone uses JJ OS ? what's your thoughts about it ?

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by peglegjoe857

If you are into step editing, sure the Yamaha probably beats the MPC. The MPC wasn't really made for that, ya know.

Not only step editing, but Yamaha has x0x style sequencer as well. If you ever worked with TR-707, 808, 909 you know what i talk about - make a great beat in seconds.

Any many other crazy things. (Posted by U&I on KSS):

In your Job Menu you can also insert beat stretch (25%-400%) from beat/bar/measure x-y. So for example a 16bar Hip Hop Loop could break into double time from Bar 4-6 and Half time from beat 6-7 all in the one loop.

Use slice and sequence on drumloop samples. Then use divide drum job to spread the midi data for Kick / hat/ Snare etc over the first 5 midi channels and replace the samples with some of your own custom sounds then experiment with realtime loop remixing just the snares for example for 7-8 variation fills on the one groove.

You can go nuts and ..... use 4/4 at 6 measures, 15/16 for 63 measures, 7/4 for 33 measures and 2/4 for 4 measures all simultaneously in a single section.

Use the polyrythmic tool set of the RS7000 for great middle eastern music work outs...

[pyvnd]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

hello there

what's the best and cheapest keyboard sampling workstations ?

just need those three things : a keyboard + a built-in sampler + a built-in sequencer that's EASY to use. something like a MPC with keys instead of pads.

doesn't have to be fancy, just has to WORK.

any idea ?

thanks !

How much money do you have to spend?

A Yamaha Motif ES6 may be what you need. Everything in one.

[peglegjoe857]

I knew it did xOx. But how well does it do performance based sequencing? Would you be able to use it's pads for MPC type playing?

I have never used one of those machines and have read of people saying very warm things about them. I have a buddy who likes x0x style writing, but recently picked up an ASR X.

He had originally considered the yamaha QY 100. Anybody know how this machine compares to the RM/RS?

And with the x0x programming in the machines. Can you edit the notes in real time, like on a 707? Or is it like the tb-303 where once you have written the sequence... press play.. and to edit it you have to stop it again, and go in and tweak the notes. Or can you edit in real time?

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

Not only step editing, but Yamaha has x0x style sequencer as well. If you ever worked with TR-707, 808, 909 you know what i talk about - make a great beat in seconds.

Any many other crazy things. (Posted by U&I on KSS):

In your Job Menu you can also insert beat stretch (25%-400%) from beat/bar/measure x-y. So for example a 16bar Hip Hop Loop could break into double time from Bar 4-6 and Half time from beat 6-7 all in the one loop.

Use slice and sequence on drumloop samples. Then use divide drum job to spread the midi data for Kick / hat/ Snare etc over the first 5 midi channels and replace the samples with some of your own custom sounds then experiment with realtime loop remixing just the snares for example for 7-8 variation fills on the one groove.

You can go nuts and ..... use 4/4 at 6 measures, 15/16 for 63 measures, 7/4 for 33 measures and 2/4 for 4 measures all simultaneously in a single section.

Use the polyrythmic tool set of the RS7000 for great middle eastern music work outs...