Hardware to Software

[Skallawa]

Anybody here went from mostly hardware to an all software based system? I am considering just building a computer and using a midi controller and software for my music. I don't think that people will be able to tell if the sound is coming from software or hardware. It seems so much easier to stay in the box for everything.

If anybody has done it, what is your experience?

What software are you using with good results. I use ableton for my daw.

[Brickman]

Yeah , I did it 7 years ago . Be very careful making such a sweeping decision . I think I made a mistake getting rid of all of my hardware and using controller keyboards and midi fader banks and just software . I miss the tactile / speed of programming and instinctive nature of hardware .

Easier isnt always better .

What are u trying to achieve by going software only ?

[Jay-]

I have done it TWICE. First I had all software.
Later I started buying up till I had 5 synths, Kurzweil, ASR10, Alesis and ROland VA.

Hmm, well fate comes along and I sell about $3500 of synths and I have the N.I Kore complete and I fire that back up.

All I can say is the sound sounds "Far-off-ish" like its behind a wall.
My amp is a big tight bottom end 18 watt with two Vintage 30's with a Mesa V twin effects so its presence is MASSIVE.

Some soft synths I cant even tell are working and I apply API SSL or L3 plugs.

I hate the sound but the instant recall is TITS! I love it!
I Hated buying SCSI racks for storing 8gb hard drives and hated paying so much for a shitty SCSI Glyph drive and LOOONG load times and frequent project corruption (ASR10)

I consider the mini SSL Rack for $3500 but opted to route my Soft synths out and into my ASR10 and back in, processing them and EQ~! Gives lots of apparent headroom although I cant be sure, I really cant.

Im not totally happy with the soft synth but I do think in 10 years it will be great, and I still hate watching N.I Kore just crash to the desktop. I like the idea of N.I being delivered on a HDD but opt for blue ray delivery or even download?? I find my files missing all the time and hate it.

I use my ASR10 for banging drums and Vsti for analog or pads and post audio..

kthanksbye. (Im shopping for a Kurzweil, send me a PM)

[Skallawa]

Thanks for the replys. I am trying to achieve a cleaner setup. Getting tired of all the wires and having to record audio into my DAW.

It would be nice have a clean setup with just one midi keyboard and the ability to have total recall.

I guess I am looking for an easier way to work on music, but maybe I should stick to hardward as it still sounds better and is more fun to use

[Brickman]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

Thanks for the replys. I am trying to achieve a cleaner setup. Getting tired of all the wires and having to record audio into my DAW.

It would be nice have a clean setup with just one midi keyboard and the ability to have total recall.

I guess I am looking for an easier way to work on music, but maybe I should stick to hardward as it still sounds better and is more fun to use

How about streamlining your setup , trim down hardware until u have only what is essential to your process . Maybe invest in a good controller as well , something like an MPK49/25 , to control whatever soft synths u do have , make them more interactive .

Be very clear on your goal .

[crufty]

I went all itb and hate every minute of it. But, the flip side: I now have EQ and compression, where as before I had none. So, it's a mixed blessing.

[Jay-]

Get N.I Kore and one synth?

[living sounds]

I went from a midi synth setup in the 90s to all ITB in the early 00s and now I'm back OTB for synths and processing. I don't like the sound of complete ITB mixes/production at all. The DAW is great for sequencing, recording and editing, but the sound generation and processing is better done outside IMHO. It's a lot costlier, but sonically much more rewarding, and - dare I say - results are there MUCH quicker, too.

[Jay-]

Quicker! Yeah I have got my Asr10 to macro boot load up my projects and load up 8 tracks! Takes a few seconds! Amazing though 16 megs of sampler sounds better then 160 megs of Vsti!

[Skallawa]

I am not disputing the sound of hardware. Was just wondering what kind of experience people had with going all software. Does not sound like much fun. I figured it would be easier and quicker to get things done, but it does not sound that way.

[rszanto]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I went from a midi synth setup in the 90s to all ITB in the early 00s and now I'm back OTB for synths and processing. I don't like the sound of complete ITB mixes/production at all. The DAW is great for sequencing, recording and editing, but the sound generation and processing is better done outside IMHO. It's a lot costlier, but sonically much more rewarding, and - dare I say - results are there MUCH quicker, too.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject...

[space2012]

go for Sonic Core Xite-1
with the EQ from Sonictimeworks for scope.

[tranel]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

I am not disputing the sound of hardware. Was just wondering what kind of experience people had with going all software. Does not sound like much fun. I figured it would be easier and quicker to get things done, but it does not sound that way.

I use hardware to 95-99%, although I have Ableton Live and a few vstis installed. Doing everything ITB just doesn't work for me. Part of it is what has been said here before, less tactile setup, dull sound quality, not as inspiring etc. (although of course instant recall is great).

But the big thing for me, is that I don't have to use a computer. I use a computer all day long at work and if I had to plonk myself down in front of another screen at home just to do my hobby, I'd destroy my eyesight completely. If you use computers a lot at work, don't underestimate the risk of eye strain—even if you have proper lighting etc.

Also, as for the quality of the mixes, I find that hardware works better. The reason is that I forced to constantly listen to what I do, rather than relying on (and believing) visual input. I personally feel that with computerized systems it is too easy to get hung up on parameter values, shapes of automation curves, exact volume and panning values etc. Better to just listen carefully—if it sounds right, it is right, so to speak.

[Derp]

I never dived in 100%, but I did get curious in the past, so I tried loading up my computer with a bunch of softsynths and working in that way. Maybe it's just me, but I found that all of the softsynths had a certain sameness to the sound, and just weren't as inspirational and interactive. I also took time to set up my laptop as a software studio for when I get bored at work. I've yet to make a single track that I was happy with using that setup.

[shadowfac]

I've done a few 100% ITB tunes, but never had the balls to sold all my hardware because I knew I'd get back to it. Now it's been around 2 years since I used softsynths (although I still mix ITB). I also work in front of a computer all day and I don't get too inspired with softsynths anymore. I do like having a mix of HW and SW, though. It's nice to have all those tools available in case you need them.

[crufty]

for what its worth, the korg nano control surfaces are the bomb. Two of the sliders + the keyboard and you have pretty decent control w/no space (they will fit in a keyboard desk drawer) for about $150. They are well thought out. Without a control surface I found twiddling knobs to be impossible, since everyone decides to implement knob spinning different.

Classical scoring is different--while certainly samples are no where near accomplished players, for $500 just about every DAW includes fairly substantial orchestral samples that enable creativity that is pretty much unmatched (compared to what $500 would buy you in the last 20 yrs).

[Yoozer]

The question is not the one you should be asking.

I find it astonishing so many people can reply or even recommend even without asking you what your setup consists of. Perhaps they saw the magical words in the topic title and their base instincts took over.

A complete switch is a pain first and foremost because you have to re-learn interfaces and techniques. Do not underestimate the tenacity of muscle memory and comfort zones. That slider you're grabbing right there without even looking? It's going to be gone if you go through with your plan.

Originally Posted by Skallawa

Thanks for the replys. I am trying to achieve a cleaner setup. Getting tired of all the wires

The only wires you should see and the only wires you have to work with are those of your patchbay. The rest can be bundled and routed in such a way that you're not seeing them, ever, unless you completely redecorate or move the studio.

and having to record audio into my DAW.

You don't have to do this until the last moment, unless you're overcoming limits of multitimbrality of internal effects.

I guess I am looking for an easier way to work on music, but maybe I should stick to hardward as it still sounds better and is more fun to use

But what good is that if you are getting tired of wires?

Here's what you do:

- list your hardware that's in your studio first. Without a list, it's impossible to recommend what you can replace. This includes monitoring and MIDI/audio interfaces.

- experiment with moving all your hardware to a closet/attic/other room first. See what your stripped studio looks like before you bite the bullet. Try keeping this up for a week; get trial versions of software you want to check out (surely they last a week or so).

- if you ever regret your switch, you're most likely going to pay more to get things back the way they were, and selling won't bring in the load of cash you expected it to.

Most importantly: don't assume a single package is going to do all the magical work for you. Komplete is not complete enough; besides it, I still run a dozen other plugins or so.

Kontakt does not replace a run of the mill 8-year old rompler simply because it's for a completely different purpose. Instead of hundreds of presets you'll be able to switch to immediately that in the end may not differ that much you're going to far fewer presets that you're supposed to do your own FX/treatment work on.

In other words, my XP-30 with Classical Expansion has perhaps 80 string patches; Kontakt only gives me 5 or so instruments (with different playing modes) in the VSL Kontakt library, but they're several cuts above the XP in terms of realism, and I'm supposed to add my own reverb/delay/eq/compression. The XP is great for zapping/navigation and sketching; the VSL is great when the sketching phase is over.

The XP also has several neat but not quite there Rhodes sounds (60's and 70's expansion); they're polished enough but lack detail and expression. On the other hand, Elektrik Piano only has 3 set of samples and expects you to add polish yourself - but I'm holding out for the Scarbee Rhodes, which sounds even better.

In other words, you have to change your workflow and you're going to be out of the comfort zone, since switching samples takes a while - you can see it load, while the XP can do it nearly immediately. If you have any romplers like that, you're likely to miss that convenience.

Anyway - back to the important point - what's your setup?

[digital 1010]

Mate this subject has been flogged to death. It's proven you can make good tracks both itb and otb. There is really successful quality producers itb and otb so neither is better.

What works is getting the setup that works for you then not worrying about being itb or otb. The best method is what gets you to the end point creates your track how you wanted it to sound.

Me personally i like the hybrid setup with all the joys of itb recall and plugins and then some choice pieces of outboard and synths.

Ben

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Skallawa

If anybody has done it, what is your experience?

I did it several years ago.
Changed from analogue to Pro Tools and digital VSTi synths, as it looked clean, simple and somehow future oriented.
Although I wasn't sure immediatelly, but sound was not right from the day one.
With experience things of course improved, but not to extent to be happy with PT only rig.
Later I added OTB summing and some outboards with improvement quite clear to me.
Most of synths I use now are analogue (although I'm not against good digital synths like Kurzweil, Yamaha etc.)
Although I have full ITB rig (based on Nuendo and Samplitude, as I got rid of PT and never looked back) to compare jobs doen ITB and OTB, as well as, I 'm well experienced on both platforms, it's quite clear to me that DAW is great for tracking and editing, but everything else go to analogue.
Difference might cost anywhere from 20.000 to 300.000 depending on how deep will one improve its analogue domain (that is many times more expensive, if we talk high quality equipment).
And yes, by hardware I mean analogue (digital can be hardware, too).

[Skallawa]

My current set up is:

RME Fireface 400 (Black Lion mod)
Black Lion Micro clock
Black lion Pre
Genelecs 1031a
virus TI keyboard
Andromeda
Motif xs6
JX10
Roland xv3080 (60s & 70s keyboards, Analog synths, Ochestral, Drum & Bass)
EMU Proteus 2000
SE1x
Lexicon MPX 500
Line 6 DL4
Korg DVR1000
BBE Sonic Maximizer

Analog Factory
Korg Legacy Collection
Ableton
Miroslav Philharmonic

I recently sold V-synth xt, Mopho, and MV8800

I know the sound quality will not be the same, but if it came close that would be ok. I figured with trilogy, omnisphere, etc I could get close.

[Yoozer]

Let's see what we can replace from that list:

RME Fireface 400 (Black Lion mod)
Black Lion Micro clock
Black lion Pre
Genelecs 1031a

Have to stay, naturally.

virus TI keyboard

Can be rendered and only requires a single wire, so I wouldn't replace it. I haven't even found a proper replacement for my Virus C in software form yet. You could get the Snow if money/space is an issue.

Motif xs6
Roland xv3080 (60s & 70s keyboards, Analog synths, Ochestral, Drum & Bass)

You could probably replace the Drum and Bass expansion with a sample library. The Analog Synths one is harder to replace, but arguably an SE and the Andy should give you enough. You could dump the unit entirely in favor of the Motif, but that's a matter of taste. It's harder to replace the XS6 - do you use it as a controller?

Lexicon MPX 500
Line 6 DL4
Korg DVR1000
BBE Sonic Maximizer

Probably have decent enough software equivalents. Look into UAD.

SE1x
Andromeda

Keep.

JX10

Replace with MKS-70 so it's out of sight. When you find that you haven't powered that up in 6 months, sell without regrets.

[Skallawa]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

Let's see what we can replace from that list:

Have to stay, naturally.

Can be rendered and only requires a single wire, so I wouldn't replace it. I haven't even found a proper replacement for my Virus C in software form yet. You could get the Snow if money/space is an issue.

You could probably replace the Drum and Bass expansion with a sample library. The Analog Synths one is harder to replace, but arguably an SE and the Andy should give you enough. You could dump the unit entirely in favor of the Motif, but that's a matter of taste. It's harder to replace the XS6 - do you use it as a controller?

Probably have decent enough software equivalents. Look into UAD.

Keep.

Replace with MKS-70 so it's out of sight. When you find that you haven't powered that up in 6 months, sell without regrets.

Yeah I haven't powered up the JX in along time. I will look into the UAD stuff. I use the virus as a controller at the moment. Thanks.

[XAXAU]

Been ITB all my life but after hearing a real Minimoog and a Prophet 08 I´m adding a DSI Tetra to my setup. Software synths just aren´t there yet.

[lain2097]

I started many years ago on softies and my Juno 106 but never "clicked" with them. More of a pastime. Then GS happened:



btw I am not looking for another board at the moment. More rack synths are to come as any keyboard with no controls are out (except my dx7). After the purchase of the 303 I pretty much have my "dream" set up now. I found that going all in or all out is the only clear choice as using that many synths and hardware effects, compressors would require a lot of inputs and outputs. So it's more of a hybrid mostly OTB set up.

[chromatronic]

yes me too i did that i had lots of gear then at some point it seemed i could do same in LOGIC 6.... its was true... i could do the same kind of things with only logic....
after some years of that i had to realise... i could do same but it doesnt sound same... doesnt feel same.... and just doesnt do same....
now iam buying gear again and will not use at all synth or effect from logic or cubase bundle...

you can do good music with hardware or software... just i feel if you go 100% software, music can be good but there will be a limit to how GOOD IT WILL SOUND...
as some said the best would be to use hardware for what is really missing in software.... synth, good preamp, etc etc.... and really first rule at least dont use just plugins from logic... or cubase.... at least buy something like a UAD CARD, ssl card or good plugs...

[Popbott]

I have always used hardware gear since the early 90s. OF course when soft synths came around I was overwhemingly curious so I have some soft synths like most of the Artura synths, Cakewalk Rapture, Reason and a few others. For the most part, after using a real Minimoog, a Minimoog plug just doesn't compare. I have a hybrid set-up that allows me to get the best of both worlds if I need to, but for the most part, I use hardware gear exclusively.

For the most part, I have friends who work in commercial studios that have said that if you use a Protools HD system with plugs it's hard to tell the difference in the end. There is a reason why PT HD costs what it does. Could I tell a difference? Yes, with my trained ear, and sometimes I can't depending on how a project was mixed. To the average non studio minded, mp3 going, all I listen to is the radio person, I am sure it makes no difference. It's the quality of the finished product that matters the most in the end. If you feel a complete ITB DAW inspires you to make the greatest music ever, then do it.

If space was an issue and I wanted to streamline things and I had to buy softsyths to keep my wife from knowing I was buying synths, then yeah I would probably switch to a complete ITB system. Luckily my wife is okay with the Andromeda I bought not too long ago!

[muziksculp]

A hybrid studio is IMHO a good way to proceed. Some Hardware synths/keyboards, but not too many, this is where you have to decide what to keep, and what to get rid of, and a good selection of software based sample libraries, virtual synths, effects plug-ins, ...etc. For samplers I recommend going with software, hardware samplers are just not cutting it anymore.

I currently use only two keyboards, which I find deliver enough sonic power for my needs, and like the way they work, they feel solid, and have enough features to keep me happy for quite a while ! I use a Motif XS7 Keyboard, and a Virus Ti keyboard. The rest of my studio is software based instruments/synths/ and sample libraries.

If you have a couple of outboard effects that you like, keep them ! (i.e. a good reverb, or compressor). Then again, if a super cool hardware synth/workstation shows up in 2010, I would look into adding it to my current setup, provided it will greatly complement my setup, or offer something very unique.

Good luck, and hope this is helpful.

[msl]

I'd say don't do it mate. Most ppl on here who have regretted it eventually. Just slim down, keep your favorite pieces, and work hybrid. Its the best of both worlds. Personally I started with hardware, then added software, I've made loads of shit with software only and it sounds fine, but the hardware offers a different approach to creating and composition that you need. Especially if things aren't working itb, like when you have a track that is almost there but missing something, I turn everything on and start experimenting. Its pretty much guaranteed within 30 mins I find what I'm looking for.


.

[Yoozer]

Several people mention that they tried to do this a couple of years ago. However, I don't think it's fair to turn your back on software completely just because PPG 2.V, FM7 and Steinberg Neon / Model E sucked

Originally Posted by chromatronic

just i feel if you go 100% software, music can be good but there will be a limit to how GOOD IT WILL SOUND...

Of course there is a limit, and it is called you.

[Eric J]

I went from hardware to software about 2 years ago, and I'm regretting it. I'm just now adding hardware back into my studio and loving every minute of it. I just picked up a Moog LP, and I'm having so much fun with it.

The funny thing is that as many software synths and FX as I have, I have been finding myself going to the LP more and more because it sounds so good compared to my soft synths. I have to turn to soft synths for things that the LP can't do, but I spend a TON of time post processing just to get them to sound good next to the LP. The LP is mostly one take, bit of EQ/comprssion, and its done.

Also, there is definitely a certain satisfaction for me with having a tactile interface. A mouse and keyboard is definitely not inspiring for me.

I'm now trying to figure out what my next synth is going to be. Andy, if I can find one, or TI are the top contenders right now.