Getting back into the game - need some advise from the experts!

[tha doctor]

Hey all,

Am getting back into the electronic music scene after a 'few' years of taking time off.

As such, it's time for some new gear, and would appreciate your advice.

Have done my intial research on the intertubes and have narrowed down to what I believe are two options:

Overview:

Gear will be used in both studio and live gigs. Music is house/trance/techno. Primary driver i guess is stability - there is no way that gear crashing at a live gig is acceptable.

Music is loop based, as we will have generated/created them first in the studio - ie, one loop is playing (be it drum, synth, hats, etc), introduce a new loop, repeat, solo on loops when needed.

Also need to keep the beat continuouly going from when changing from one song/scene to the next.


Option 1-

Rack mounted DAW.

i7 chipset system in a road case (so can be transported), running ableton live on XP32.
Controlled by NI Maschine or Akai MPD32 < (opinions?)
External 24 channel mixer to mix the output of each sample
1 or 2 x Delta 1010 interfaces
Will be up to about 16 samples/loops per song

Option 2-

Akai MPC5000
External 12 channel mixer (I think the 5000 can only do 8 outputs)?




I guess it will need to be a sound creator/processor/recorder in the studio, and a loop player for gigs. But crash likelyhood needs to be as close to 0% as possible.

Have seen the MPC5000 in action on youtube, but it is mainly about playing hiphop. I haven't really seen a live techno set being demonstrated.

Have about 3-6 months before we are required to gig to get the DAW configuration locked in to avoid setup issues.

Appreciate any advice you can give.

Cheers,

Tha Doctor


ON EDIT: I currently have an older DAW with VSTs, so will use that to generate samples should I go down the MPC5000 route. It is a bit slow for multichannel live processing though, hence the option of an upgraded system.

[Derp]

Forget the MPC5000. Get an MPC1000 and get JJOS. Prepare for the most amazing and intuitive sequencing experience of your life. And as a bonus, with JJOS, the MPC1000 can double as a multitrack hard disk recorder. Then, just take that extra money you saved and buy some synths.

[tha doctor]

Originally Posted by Derp

Forget the MPC5000. Get an MPC1000 and get JJOS. Prepare for the most amazing and intuitive sequencing experience of your life. And as a bonus, with JJOS, the MPC1000 can double as a multitrack hard disk recorder. Then, just take that extra money you saved and buy some synths.

Thanks Derp.

May I ask why your preference to the 1000 over the other models?

The 1000 retails here for $2000 AUD (about $1650 US) here in Australia.

For that price I can get a new i7 computer and Maschine for example, or a Mac notebook and external controller, which is kind of putting me off dumping all that cash on that MPC. (I can pick up a 5000 for $2000 AUD too).

There are some on ebay for around $800-1000 second hand, so that may be the way to go?

Currently have an X-station and my band mate has some Roland synths, so I am more after the brains of the setup at this point. Some new synths are next on the shopping list though!

Cheers,

tha Doctor

[kazper]

Buy one from the states and have it sent your way... There about $600 on average used, and I've seen them in the sub $500 posted a few times locally.

Even with shipping your going to save about $1000 usd and it should work with your power via the universal supply.

http://www.bananasmusic.com/multimed...Image/8221.jpg

Akai MPC1000 Music Production Workstation - BananasMusic.com - new

If you can't get one for a decent amount of $, I would go the soft route. I like to sequence Reason with my MPC, as well as some of the other softsynths around.

[Derp]

Originally Posted by tha doctor

May I ask why your preference to the 1000 over the other models?

It's not the MPC itself that I prefer. It's JJOS. JJOS brings to the MPC1000 things like grid editing, a much more refined step sequencer, more effects, multitrack recording capabilities, more tracks, higher sequencer capacity, better sample editing, better loop slicing... the list goes on and on and on. I can't imagine not having JJOS for my MPC1000. Akai's OS is so primitive in contrast.

[Yoozer]

YouTube - The APC40 Ableton Performance Controller in action!

This is why you should look into Ableton Live.

Originally Posted by tha doctor

Primary driver i guess is stability - there is no way that gear crashing at a live gig is acceptable.

There's no way you should have a gig without backup. This goes for keyboards and samplers, too; all you need is a wonky powersupply or some asshole pulling the plug accidentally.

Have seen the MPC5000 in action on youtube, but it is mainly about playing hiphop. I haven't really seen a live techno set being demonstrated.

Well, maybe not. But do you really need that?

The MPC is a simple sequencer and a sampler. The only difference with an x0x-machine is that you can't program your sequences in advance (as in punching in steps before the sequencer is on that spot in the pattern; only in realtime. There's nothing, absolutely nothing that binds it to hiphop; it's just that the method of sequencing and having a sampler in the same package is just so bloody convenient that it's great to quickly punch out ideas on. Yamaha got into that game far too late, Roland stuck to "no sampling" for too long, and Korg went for pure synthesis, and a limited sampler; neither the ES or the ESX have a waveform display of sorts.

None of 'm did anything with the 4 x 4 pads which allows you to program it naturally with humanized swing until the MV8000. Hiphop does not need 100% machine-like quantization most of the time. While hindsight is 20/20, it's obvious why the MPCs got snapped up like they did.

Does it work for techno? Hell yes, the note repeat button is a godsend for quick snare rolls and hihats, auto-quantizing while you hold it. It's stable. It loads pretty quickly from a harddisk. 2 MIDI outs are great for driving the rest of your gear, 4 are even better. But - that works best if you've prepared any looping material in advance, and have enough outboard effects. Ableton's choice in FX is nothing short of ridiculously great in comparison, and the ways you can chain everything up are mindboggling.

[e6400ultra]

Originally Posted by tha doctor

Thanks Derp.

May I ask why your preference to the 1000 over the other models?

Originally Posted by Derp

It's not the MPC itself that I prefer. It's JJOS.

JJOS will work on the MPC2500 as well if you need more outputs, bigger pads, etc.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by T71

JJOS will work on the MPC2500 as well if you need more outputs, bigger pads, etc.

That looks like a pretty good arrangement. 2500 seems quite well featured. The XL 1.16 OS looks rather good.

[e6400ultra]

Originally Posted by Oli

That looks like a pretty good arrangement. 2500 seems quite well featured. The XL 1.16 OS looks rather good.

JJOS2 is the one to get. JJ crippled too much in XL.

[timothyallan]

The MPC 1000 is not $2k here… I bought one brand new for about $1200 about a year ago in Melb and actually just sold it, with maxed RAM and JJOS for just under $1k on ebay a few weeks ago.

[tha doctor]

Originally Posted by timothyallan

The MPC 1000 is not $2k here… I bought one brand new for about $1200 about a year ago in Melb and actually just sold it, with maxed RAM and JJOS for just under $1k on ebay a few weeks ago.

Storedj = $1999
Spank = $1999
Kosmic = $1799
Pony = $2699

I can only go by what the website says it is selling them for.

[timothyallan]

Originally Posted by tha doctor

Storedj = $1999
Spank = $1999
Kosmic = $1799
Pony = $2699

I can only go by what the website says it is selling them for.

lol @ $2600!!

That's website prices though, go down and actually chat to them. Get some price matching going on. I reckon the GFC would have increased the price a bit since I bought however. Or just check ebay, mine was mint condition as I just couldn't get it into my workflow.

[tha doctor]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

YouTube - The APC40 Ableton Performance Controller in action!

This is why you should look into Ableton Live.

That is exactly what I was looking for!

I had hopes of using ableton (hence, in Option 1 it was listed) as I jam at home with it at the moment. But the other controllers I knew about just didn't seem to gel the way I had intended to use it.

Now, that we have Option 1 as the winner, would anyone like to chime in on the computer setup?

As it would be a dedicated Ableton system, running about 10 tracks, and 1 or 2 vst's, should I brave the XP laptop or should I go for the better cooling ability of a rack mounted system in a road case for transportability?

I had a Toshiba laptop a few years ago that used to just shut down when it got to hot (even when just on a table top sometimes) and this has scared the crap out of me for using laptops for playing music live ever since.

Cheers.

[tha doctor]

Originally Posted by timothyallan

lol @ $2600!!

That's website prices though, go down and actually chat to them. Get some price matching going on. I reckon the GFC would have increased the price a bit since I bought however. Or just check ebay, mine was mint condition as I just couldn't get it into my workflow.

I know, someones having a laugh!

Agreed that it is a good time to buy stuff at the moment though. Shops are very up for negotiations.

[kazper]

I do think Ableton and the controller is a nice piece of kit.

I would say that it would be nice to see all that working together.

[bluemoon]

get a macbook of some sorts.

<<<< mac fan boy here

[Derp]

Originally Posted by bluemoon

get a macbook of some sorts.

<<<< mac fan boy here

One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't...

I have to agree with Maddox on this one. If I can't use my computer for making WMD's, then what's the point?

[Dubreak]

I use Ableton 7 with a Sony Vaio FJ1Z 'Centrino' P4, 1Gb of ram and an Echo Indigo PCMCIA 4-out soundcard. Works fine for me with an 8 track count and a BCF2000 midi controller. 2 tracks to the PA and 2 for a headphone cue. It's like having 8 turntables.

I also string a KP3 and Line6 Echopark off the end.

For something with 16tracks I'd have to probably get a laptop a bit more powerful I suspect.
I don't use that many 'sends' with mad effects chains in ableton.
Just 4 medium complexity 'sends' and sometimes 2 external-effects 'sends'.

It's nice to have loads of 'outs' on the soundcard to send separate feeds to pedals too.
I've tried it a few times with a Motu traveller soundcard a few times. Worked nice.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Derp

One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't...

I have to agree with Maddox on this one. If I can't use my computer for making WMD's, then what's the point?

LOL

[tha doctor]

Thanks for your advice all.

I have ordered an APC40, and am building an i7 XP rig in the next week or so.

Picked up a Delta 410 card for a song, just to tide me over until I decide if I want to route all the channels to an external mixer or not. Will see what the mixer faders feel like on the APC before I splash out for something a bit more industrial. Although I've had my eye on 2 x Delta 1010's for a while now....

Add my X-station to the mix, and I think it should be a fairly reliable setup.

Cheers.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by tha doctor

building an i7 XP rig in the next week or so.

building a rackmount core i7

Water Cooling Systems

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4077213-post4.html

Biggest Monster 5U Rackmount ATX case!

Is there a reason to overclock an i7?

best way to cool a core i7?

soundcard drivers are verry important,
Lynx AES16 are the best ASIO
RME hdsp9632 second best ASIO
Sonic Core,

but... Sonic Core Xite-1 has the best DSP with 0-latency + converter latency.

for electronic music, go for SonicCore Xite-1
Found: Youtube Soniccore Scope Xite-1

if you want fast converters RME ADi8-qs, Lynx Aurora, maybe Mytek 8x192 too, there are others maybe focusrite liquid 4pre.