Any Logic Users Not Using Ultrabeat?

[spicemix]

huh maybe you're right?

Logic Pro Help :: View topic - Using Ultrabeat

But see if it isn't just mass hypnosis...

[Digital Network]

This is the place where fader8 helped me to resolve this problem.

[Digital Network]

I just tested with Logic 9.1.
The same problem still occurs.

Between 43 et 44 samples of silence before the start of the real sample.

[tojo]

I had no idea that the step edit mode existed (where the parameters turn yellow) Once I figure out how it all works I think i'll be using ultrabeat a lot more.

Thanks a lot!

[Digital Network]

Yes, the step mode is kinda like the parameters locks on the Elektron Machinedrum. Great feature !!!

[benirose]

As much as I want to love Ultrabeat because it's so flexible and truly the most powerful synth drum machine I've ever seen, I really just can't because it's not inductive to a good work flow. Maybe if I was more of a synthhead and thought in filters and envelopes rather than what drums really sound like, I would be able to work with it more, but I really need something that gives me more intuitive control over the attributes of a drum's sound. That's why I'm looking at getting AudioDamage's Tattoo. Everything I've seen with it really is exactly what I've been looking for in a drum synth, with the exception that it doesn't sample. However, I also have Battery 3 for when I want to sample, but that doesn't have a slick step sequencer like Ultrabeat and Tattoo have.

I think I'm going to purchase Tattoo sometime this week, and then write them a letter saying it would be awesome to put a sampler in this thing, maybe call it Tattoo+ or something! Team this thing up with some of AD's other stuff (Automoton and Replicant) and I'd have everything I'd ever need to make music (or at least the rhythm for it!)

[jumunius]

Hi, I was long opposed to Ultrabeat, mostly because of the UI. I have Battery and the Drums Overkill sample set so I have a lot to work from.

But a friend recently converted me to at least one great use of Ultrabeat, which is using it as a double to punch up samples that aren't quite cutting through the mix. So if my kick sounds good but is lacking a sub frequency or the right pop on the attack, I play around with Ultrabeat until I find the right double that compensates. Also true of snares, toms, etc.

Obviously if you can get the right sample in the first place, who needs to spend the extra time doubling it? But realistically, if you are just using samples as opposed to recording or programming drums from scratch, you may need to fine-tune them to fit your needs, and I think ultrabeat can be very handy here.

I assume Battery can do the same thing, but I almost prefer having a dedicated device for this purpose. Keeps my head straight.

[M-Goldie]

i think ultrabeat is brilliant and extremely powerful. it makes amazing sounds, has an excellent built in step sequencer with accent so you can really use it like an old drum machine, + really interesting step automation flexibility.

it does however have the most irritating interface, like so many of logic's instruments there are mysterious split sliders and hard to find controls, but overall if you read the manual, and then read it again, and then read it again, it starts to make sense. and if you don't use it for a month you have to read the manual again when you turn it on....

also i didn't believe the post above about 44 samples of silence so i tried it out (check the jpeg) and actually its (sort of) true.

its not 44 samples of slience before the real sample, and not quite a 'cut off' it seems more like a very slight envelope at the start of the sample playing which means there is a slight 'fade up' into the sound. the actual sample does not move or anything like that, but i agree it shouldn't happen. it doesn't happen in EXS24 for example.

also, bought Tattoo today and its great. more like a real drum machine. probably not as powerful as ultrabeat but different and interesting. anyone interested in drum machines should have it IMHO

MG

[rids]

Even more interesting to see this diagram of the silence. Wow and there is even a fade up like you say. Really weird. I wonder if I emailed Apple as to why they do this, if I'd get an answer or is it a bug. Seems like it shouldn't happen, but it must be a bug they aren't aware of or neglect.

Anyways, I'm starting to use Ultrabeat more. It's very deep, but the sounds I get on it compared to other drum machines are unique. And sometimes for the non-metalic sounds, I can get some really nice squelchy tones. I'd still like to get a supplemental drum program, but am not sure what (sequencer) is the best compliment to Ultrabeat.

[M-Goldie]

Originally Posted by rids

Even more interesting to see this diagram of the silence. Wow and there is even a fade up like you say. Really weird. I wonder if I emailed Apple as to why they do this, if I'd get an answer or is it a bug. Seems like it shouldn't happen, but it must be a bug they aren't aware of or neglect.

i did notice that the attack envelope ADSR in ultrabeat doesn't go to zero, it says something like 0.001ms. maybe the problem is there. i must say that i've never noticed the problem by ear, but i would have thought a drum sampler in particular should be able to have full level attack.

Originally Posted by rids

Anyways, I'm starting to use Ultrabeat more. It's very deep, but the sounds I get on it compared to other drum machines are unique. And sometimes for the non-metalic sounds, I can get some really nice squelchy tones. I'd still like to get a supplemental drum program, but am not sure what (sequencer) is the best compliment to Ultrabeat.

don't know what you mean by sequencer? do you mean you are looking for a drum instrument with its own sequencer?

NI Battery 3 is very good (doesn't have its own sequencer though). a little bit quirky interface but the sounds and modulation possibilities are excellent. very different to ultrabeat - battery is all about manipulation of real samples. highly recommended.

i've also bought NI Maschine but only last week so not sure about that yet.

cheers

MG

[rids]

I particularly mentioned sequencer, just because I'm trying to find the most simple, straight-forward, but flexible drum sequencer. I've been doing sequencing in Logic's piano roll editor for a long time. I'd like to find a good to sequencer for drums. I haven't got along with Ultrabeat's yet. I'm not so sure I like how you can vary and the lengths and velocities. Each step you can make anything from a tall skinny toothpick of a note to a big long rectangular block of a note. That's not very straight-forward. Maybe flexible, but that flexibility can sometimes lead into frustration. Maybe I just haven't discover a snap function in Ultrabeat like the Piano Roll has. Battery looks like an interesting interface, but I'm thinking EXS24 can possibly cover those duties just as good for sound mangling. Sample management and keymapping is a different story though Let us know how you like Maschine. I've been looking at that, BPM and Guru.

[revstate]

i like ultrabeat, battery, exs24, a synth, well anything that sounds good for the song i'm writing. it's better to learn new things than not.

[M-Goldie]

Originally Posted by rids

I particularly mentioned sequencer, just because I'm trying to find the most simple, straight-forward, but flexible drum sequencer. I've been doing sequencing in Logic's piano roll editor for a long time. I'd like to find a good to sequencer for drums. I haven't got along with Ultrabeat's yet. I'm not so sure I like how you can vary and the lengths and velocities. Each step you can make anything from a tall skinny toothpick of a note to a big long rectangular block of a note. That's not very straight-forward. Maybe flexible, but that flexibility can sometimes lead into frustration. Maybe I just haven't discover a snap function in Ultrabeat like the Piano Roll has. .

hello

have you found the full sequencer page of ultrabeat? (see jpeg attached). you don't need to go near the rectangular blocks at the bottom, just click the squares. click and drag to input multiple notes. its the most simple sequencer you could get but with the ability to 'dig deeper' i.e. flexible only if you want to go there. really great 'accent' function too which is invaluable and not something i've come across on other VIs.

also you can drag and drop the sequencer info into a midi track on the arrange page where you can change the feel, apply groove quantise and all that if that's your thing (not mine - i like my drum machines to sound like machines

the pattern midi change thing is brilliant and very flexible.

if you haven't tried Tattoo i would definitely recommend it as well. it has some very cool features, but is only for synthesised sounds as mentioned previously.

[phase_ghost]

I don't use it as my main drum machine, but it's a fantastic way to enhance sounds. For instance, I'll use the default closed hat under a 909 hat or one I made on a different synth. Throughout the tune I'll slowly modulate and automate the settings to give a nice changing texture throughout the track. I like the clap too for some reason.

Using it by itself would leave a lot to be desired, but, it's nice for background stuff and layering.

[goroworo]

Originally Posted by d1rtynyc

I did not use Ultrabeat for years. Then I got some good tutorials on it & it really opened it up for me. I think most people (like myself until recently) don't know even 1/8th of the power this has.

One major thing: The step sequencer is extremely powerful. You can do "parameter locks" like on a Machine Drum. I had no idea. And yes, I own a Machine Drum & Mono Machine so I do understand the power there.

Thanks for the insights. But do we need an extremely powerful step sequencer with a steep learning curve if we only want to produce, say, simple 4/4 dance music or easy listening commercial pop/hiphop tunes?
I think it all comes down to personal and individual needs, really.
Maybe you can explain the usefulness of all the hidden power of UB in the realm of pop music production (that includes commercial dance music)? Appreciate your further opinion.

[crufty]

i have made a crap load of step sequencers in reaktor


i hate to say it, but piano rolls are about the easiest.

[overdrive91]

Just got battery because I hated Ultra beat. The GUI slows me down so much.

[HYX]

Not a big fan of Ultrabeat, a bit too obfuscated when trying to get something going quickly. I just use the EXS24 with various drum samples, usually Vengeance and then layer it up with some other loops I've either already made or from other packs.

Other great alternatives tho: Battery, Guru, and I really want to try Punch!

[LiveFromKyoto]

I use Ultrabeat because even though it has a steep learning curve, I made it through it so I might as well stay. As has been mentioned, it can do a heck of a lot, though there are still things I don't like about it. Changing the instrument channel volumes on the lefthand side is ridiculously fiddly, you have like a 2 pixel range to find the dragpoint otherwise it just tries to rename it. I also think it kind of sucks for swing, there's barely any movement compared to some other drum sequencers. The analog modelling is okay, but I'd probably rather use something genuinely analog here for maximum thumpiness. Samples are where its main strength lies imo.

But there's a lot of surprisingly cool tricks it can do too, particularly when you start sidechaining other instruments through it. It becomes more of a filter/accent tool than a drum machine at that point.

[Hint]

Ultrabeat could be amazing, but it has too many little quirks and bugs which hold it back.

I used to use multiple EXS24s for drums, each with the same kit loaded. One instance for each kit element on its own channel. Then I decided to switch to Ultrabeat and stick it out for a while, but after giving Ultrabeat a chance for a couple of years, I've reached the point where I'm going to switch back to using multiple EXS24s.

In Ultrabeat's favour, the routing, effects, envelopes etc are visible on the one GUI. Yes, it's cluttered and ugly, but it shows you a lot of information, which I consider a strength. Especially when using multiple outputs, and layering sounds.

On the downside (my issues are all sample-based, because I don't use the synth elements much):

- Preview Sample in Ultrabeat Voice was broken in Logic 9.0 and never fixed. The equivalent function continues to work fine in EXS24.

- Several users (myself included) have trouble loading custom kits in Logic 9. Ultrabeat struggles to locate samples for some people, for some reason.

Which is irritating enough, but add to that the fact that the browser that pops up asking you to locate the missing file isn't helpful. The equivalent missing sample browser in EXS24 is able to search Spotlight and find all the samples which share a name with the missing sample. Ultrabeat's missing sample browser gives you nothing. You have to type in the sample name yourself. When you have a bunch of samples named things like "PRF_Snr-Hard-023" this can get very tedious.

Besides, if Spotlight can find the samples, why can't Ultrabeat?

- When browsing for replacement samples, the voice pitch is always reset to C3, even if you decide to stick with the currently loaded sample.

- Again, when browsing for replacement samples, the browser always opens the last folder you were browsing. Wouldn't it make more sense to open the same folder as the currently-loaded sample in that voice?

I presume that most people who build kits from one-shot samples keep their files in Kick folders / Snare folders / Hi Hat folders etc.

In Ultrabeat, if you're browsing for a kick sample, then switch to a voice with a snare sample loaded and browse for a replacement snare sample, it will open the browser on the kick folder you were previously in. Silly.

===

It's something I've probably moaned about before on here, but I really don't think Apple hand over beta versions of Logic for testing to people who use the instruments properly for anything approaching real-world music making. The ES2 LFO bug introduced in 9.1.4 and slider zipper noise in Delay Designer introduced with the 9.1.4 update are evidence of this, I think.

I just can't imagine that anyone tested Ultrabeat and thought "yeah, this all works and makes sense".

The inconsistencies between Ultrabeat and EXS24's behaviour and file handling are what's most baffling. Weren't they made by the same people?

It could easily be a great instrument. I wouldn't moan about it if I thought it was a hopeless bit of software. Perhaps they need to split it into drum synth and drum sampler instruments?

What a long and boring rant. Sorry.

[Alex Aliferis]

UltraBeat suffers from trying to be all things to everyone. This ends up as a crazy-dense, complicated interface, which is not conducive to productivity. It could probably be made a million times more usable if viewed solely as an analog-style drum synth, with appropriate parameters mapped to a BCR-2000 or other controller.

At present I use a sample-playback drum synth that I designed for a client using Max MSP. It's focused on limited parameters, high-speed sound design and extreme ease of use. I'll be releasing a version to public as soon as I have it working as an AU, probably by end of Summer.

[djanthonyw]

I just consider Ultrabeat to be a drum synth that's there if I decide to use a synth for drums. I don't bother using it to sequence samples.

[Diametro]

I'm not ... I use NI's Maschine instead ...

The one time I used Ultrabeat in a track I thought it sounded terrible ... The only reason I kept it was for its flat quality ... Really haven't touched it since ...