Best VST effects to make synth plugins sound warm and fat

[barderc]

I know this is an old topic and the holy grail for lots of us, but please bear with me... with plugins changing all the time perhaps there is some new advice/solution for all of us to share.

I use several synth VSTs including Arturia Minimoog V, ImpOSCar, Sonic Projects OP-X, Sylenth1 and a trial version of the new Waldorf Largo. Of these, to my ears, Arturia and Sonic Projects are the most analogue sounding (well ahead of the rest), followed by Largo, followed by Sylenth1, followed by ImpOSCar (which is great BTW). For what it's worth I was brought up on a Roland SH-101, Juno 106 and Oberheim Matrix 6R.

I was on YouTube last night and there was a demo of some classic synths including the Juno 60 and the Sequential Circuits Pro One - I think the link is www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVhY-6W3Mo The most obviously great thing was their effortless warmth. This is what I would like to achieve via a plugin.

While compressors such as PSP's Vintage Warmer do seem to warm things up, this is partly the compressor creating a fatter, rounder sound. What I really want is something that imitates the Voltage controlled oscillator - Voltage controlled filter - Voltage controlled amplifier chain. Presumably each of these components, through their small operational imperfections, add a sense of randomness and sonically, increased harmonics, thus creating the longed for aural warmth.

Is anyone using any non compression based VSTs with real success to achieve this warmth?

I am thinking pre-amps, amps, and valve/tube simulation VSTs. I currently use Scarbee Vintage Keyboard FX (very good but not quite warm enough) and Amplitude 2 (great for guitar but the amps introduce too much coloration for synths).

Many thanks in advance for sharing your experiences and advice.

PS I know that with good programming you can get VST synths to sound warmer than many of their presets, but this is not the point of the question.

PPS I also know that the obvious solution is to go and buy some vintage synths but this is not an option.

[housegezeichnet]

i would try very tiny modulations of pitch etc. via LFO

[barderc]

Thanks for the idea - it does work, up to a point. However, editing each preset individually is not viable and would only be partially successful.

As noted in my post, what I am after is peoples' experience of plugins that create warmth and fatness without compression.

[Captain Proton]

The only plugin I know that kind of helps is Nebula running some of the tape presets.

Otherwise you'll just have to get the real deal.

[living sounds]

Yes, get some good hardware synths in front of a good converter and be done.

[Kent]

I was going to type exactly what housegezeichnet typed.

You can also give this a try: URS Saturator
How about running the synth through some outboard? Something like a Moogerfooger's 'Drive' parameter might be what you are looking for.

[barderc]

I'll have a noodle with the LFOs and see how I get on.

Lots of people rate the URS Saturator but unfortunately I don't have iLok.

Which Moogerfooger? - there are lots.

Many thanks and please keep the suggestions coming.

[Paul Russell]

PSP Saturator 2 from the Mixpack 2 is a regular visitor to my FX bins. Try the Tape 2 algorythm. Plus you also get Mixgate and Mixpressor, which are handy little bits of code to have hanging around.

Challenge/Response auth if you don't have an iLok.

[Kent]

Most of the Moogers have the "Drive" control.

[DJRossfader]

Nebula is your best bet


Also agree with programming tiny fluctuations in pitch, filter etc using lfos as previously suggested.

Another one to try would be simply eq'ing out all the harsh aliasing and other artifacts which you get with software synths. I know it sounds too obvious but the warmth people speak of often means simply rolling off all the nasty stuff around 16khz and higher.. If a roll off doesnt work try a high shelf taking off around 3dB.
maybe even a slight boost around the low end too

[thehuman]

Voxegno's VariSaturator is pretty nice, and the price is right.

[Kupiti]

I've read that you can use wave plugins in idle mode to "analogize" your sound, the api and neve (V) plugs, dunno if that helps

[SWAN808]

If you are on PC the Magix FX suite which has some nice plugins. I second the PSP Mixsaturator 2 as being worth a try.

If Im totally honest it depends how 'analogue' you are trying to get. None of the algorithmic plugs are gonna change your softsynths into bonafide analogue. But they can soften the sound. I'd also advise EQing a bit of high end out and compression.

I would say the best way to get analogue sound in plugin format is Nebula 3 plugin which samples hardware. However its not that simple to use like a lot of the more commercial plugins. But what you get it real analogue sounding harmonic colouration.

With some careful application of EQ compression and saturation you can get a decent sound out of those softies (FWIW you have picked the better ones) - but its not as easy as having the real deal. Lord knows Ive tried and tried!

[cosmos]

UAD Fatso Jr. is out, i would check that... i know the hardware version does the job very well.

[space2012]

voxengo tape
4front auxiter
izotope ozone soft sat algorithm
izotope ozone warmth algorithm
t-racks 3 yellow classic clipper
crysoniq spectraphy h,d,tube

kvraudio.com

[jonmoore]

A fan of both the URS Saturation plugin and SPL's TwinTube. Both can be used in either subtle or extreme ways with a wide range of colours in between.

JM

Leftside Wobble

[space2012]

Originally Posted by DJRossfader

Nebula is your best bet


Also agree with programming tiny fluctuations in pitch, filter etc using lfos as previously suggested.

Another one to try would be simply eq'ing out all the harsh aliasing and other artifacts which you get with software synths. I know it sounds too obvious but the warmth people speak of often means simply rolling off all the nasty stuff around 16khz and higher.. If a roll off doesnt work try a high shelf taking off around 3dB.
maybe even a slight boost around the low end too

the digital sound has too much fluctuations, clock drift & jitter in the whole sound.
what real hardware has is individual oscillator drift.

the plugin design is important, like asymetric analog modeled emulation of fxpansion orca/synthsquad, or the parallel routing of the op-8x pro parallel oscillator circuit analog modeling.
or audjoo helix unstable technology, or korg legacy collection analog knob, or the native instruments pro-53 analog knob.
yamaha an1x, an200, plg150-an Edge knob, etc...

one thing is Fat, other is realism.
FXpansion Synth Squad



SonicProjects Separate Voice Design (SVD)


most non pro soundcards have too much pitch drift & jitter.
with high clock jitter, harmonics cancelation ocurr, creating a hollow weak, blur sound.
also sampling errors ocurr,
dont think that digital sounds like crap becouse its too perfect.
analog sounds great becouse its complex but seems simple.

all DACs sound diferent...
with good DAc like UA 2192, Aurora, Lucid, Roland
and a verry good clock+cable+ac power
good designed plugins sound amazing.
*******
from:
OP-X - Virtual Oberheim Clone - VST & Reaktor
A word about converters:
Digital systems only can sound as good as the digital-to-analog converters used to get the sound out of the box. They can vary drastically in their quality, not superficially, but when it comes to details, transparency, smoothness and clarity, all aspects from which analog synthesis lives. That's why the quality of the converters have a big impact on the sound of OP-X. Only a good set of converters will let all the important details and depth come through. The most important part of a converter is its sample clock. The more stable it is the better is the sound. The more jitter there is, the more the signal is destroyed. The actual converter chip is the cheapest part, today's budget soundcards often have the same converter chips built in as the expensive high end devices. But they have a worse sample clock and an inferior analog wiring. However, there's a trick to make even a cheap converter sound much better: simply synchronize it with a quality external clock. You don't need a word clock in, you can do it also over the standard inputs (sp/dif). The most cost effective trick is buying an outdated upper class converter and use it as clock. While the converter chips have become outdated compared to the specs of modern chips the clock itself is still "high end". Of course there are also inexpensive single clocks available, and also good value conveters or soundcards with a quality clock built in. And if you beleive it or not: it makes a huge difference. Virtual analog can only sound real analog if the signal is not being destroyed on its way from the digital to the analog side of the system.


http://www.fxpansion1.com/resourceUp...tart_Guide.pdf
http://www.fxpansion1.com/resourceUp...ion_Manual.pdf

FXpansion - Orca
Asymmetric Non-linear Analog Modeling

***
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/410346-youtube-wordclock-drift-test.html

[space2012]

Originally Posted by jonmoore

A fan of both the URS Saturation plugin and SPL's TwinTube. Both can be used in either subtle or extreme ways with a wide range of colours in between.

JM

Leftside Wobble

can you upload some 320kbps .mp3 Dry/Wet demos?

[jonmoore]

Originally Posted by space2012

can you upload some 320kbps .mp3 Dry/Wet demos?

Download the demo's and have a play! But don't just take my word for it. This was a recent review of TwinTube in Mix magazine:

SPL TwinTube Processor review in Mix magazine

JM

Leftside Wobble

[living sounds]

Originally Posted by space2012

the digital sound has too much fluctuations, clock drift & jitter in the whole sound.
what real hardware has is individual oscillator drift.

the plugin design is important, like asymetric analog modeled emulation of fxpansion orca/synthsquad, or the parallel routing of the op-8x pro parallel oscillator circuit analog modeling.
or audjoo helix unstable technology, or korg legacy collection analog knob, or the native instruments pro-53 analog knob.
yamaha an1x, an200, plg150-an Edge knob, etc...

one thing is Fat, other is realism.
FXpansion Synth Squad



SonicProjects Separate Voice Design (SVD)


most non pro soundcards have too much pitch drift & jitter.
with high clock jitter, harmonics cancelation ocurr, creating a hollow weak, blur sound.
also sampling errors ocurr,
dont think that digital sounds like crap becouse its too perfect.
analog sounds great becouse its complex but seems simple.

all DACs sound diferent...
with good DAc like UA 2192, Aurora, Lucid, Roland
and a verry good clock+cable+ac power
good designed plugins sound amazing.
*******
from:
OP-X - Virtual Oberheim Clone - VST & Reaktor
A word about converters:
Digital systems only can sound as good as the digital-to-analog converters used to get the sound out of the box. They can vary drastically in their quality, not superficially, but when it comes to details, transparency, smoothness and clarity, all aspects from which analog synthesis lives. That's why the quality of the converters have a big impact on the sound of OP-X. Only a good set of converters will let all the important details and depth come through. The most important part of a converter is its sample clock. The more stable it is the better is the sound. The more jitter there is, the more the signal is destroyed. The actual converter chip is the cheapest part, today's budget soundcards often have the same converter chips built in as the expensive high end devices. But they have a worse sample clock and an inferior analog wiring. However, there's a trick to make even a cheap converter sound much better: simply synchronize it with a quality external clock. You don't need a word clock in, you can do it also over the standard inputs (sp/dif). The most cost effective trick is buying an outdated upper class converter and use it as clock. While the converter chips have become outdated compared to the specs of modern chips the clock itself is still "high end". Of course there are also inexpensive single clocks available, and also good value conveters or soundcards with a quality clock built in. And if you beleive it or not: it makes a huge difference. Virtual analog can only sound real analog if the signal is not being destroyed on its way from the digital to the analog side of the system.

Absurd. 1. The sound card is totally irrelevant to soft synths. 2. A bad converter with a good external clock is still a bad converter. 3. You don't know what you're talking about and still you spam every thread with this bullshit.

And also, don't believe the marketing bla bla cited above. I'm a big proponent of good converters, but the real OB-X recorded through a sound blaster then played back by the same sound blaster will still easily beat the OP-X played back on that same sound blaster.

[XAXAU]

UAD Maximizer and Fatso...

[Delta Heavy]

Originally Posted by living sounds

You don't know what you're talking about and still you spam every thread with this bullshit.

innit

[Yoozer]

The problem with focusing so much on cables, fuses, gold-plated converters and rubidium clocks is like blaming the bugs on your windshield if you just rammed your car into a wall.

In other words, if your room, monitoring, mixing, engineering, sounddesign and composition aren't up to snuff, the things mentioned above aren't going to polish a turd.

I can't find any of space2012's tracks - just a lot of "Found:" topics. I'd be interested to hear what the great result of all of these tweaks is.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm fully aware that I am a hack with a shitty room, cheap gear, minor talents and far too little ambition, so here's a list of crap I've made:

Selected Works 2002-2008 - Yoozer - Listen free and discover music at Last.fm

Originally Posted by living sounds

And also, don't believe the marketing bla bla cited above. I'm a big proponent of good converters, but the real OB-X recorded through a sound blaster then played back by the same sound blaster will still easily beat the OP-X played back on that same sound blaster.

I don't know - I thought YouTube - [DEMO] SonicProjects OP-X PRO #1 was pretty neat (but lacked tweaking, which would've made it more convincing). Youtube's audio quality has, perhaps, a similar detrimental effect as noisy jittery Soundblaster converters .

[Kindred]

I think you can get a lot of the warming effect with judicious use of EQ to be honest. If you want to get some warmth on a budget try recording to an old cassette tape deck you may have lying around (have never tried myself but have friends who said it sounded great) - need to use a decent tape deck and decent quality cassettes tho.

or you can go crazy like i did and get an Anamod (blatant 'i have an Anamod' post!)

i only heard the PSP Vintage Warmer once but just sounded like some eq boost of the mid/lows and rounding off of the highs to me...but i am not really good at picking stuff like that anyway

[Spectral Climax]

Originally Posted by Kindred

If you want to get some warmth on a budget try recording to an old cassette tape deck you may have lying around (have never tried myself but have friends who said it sounded great) - need to use a decent tape deck and decent quality cassettes tho.

This doesn't work unless you find a classic and expensive professional reel tape recorder...not just decent..I have worked with some tape reel/tape recorders and they are not all suitable for adding that "warmth"..

[barderc]

First, many thanks to you all for your advice - this topic is clearly a popular one. Trying to bring it all together, my objective was to seek advice on creating analog warmth and fatness for VST synths, only using other plug-ins (rather than outboard hardware). So far I have gleaned the following:

1. If it's analog you're after, start with VSTs with a good reputation in this sonic area - my post lists what I use FWIW.

2. Detailed per preset programming will help considerably but it's not a quick fix - I'm too lazy/time short to do this each time.

3. Compressors and subtle use of EQ work to a considerable degree in achieving the desired warmth and fatness, but certainly in the case of compression, at the partial cost of dynamics.

4. There seem to be a number of VST tube/warmth/tape/saturation plugins that people like as a one stop solution.

So far I have tried PSP's VintageWarmer2 and PSP MixPack2 and I will be exploring them further. Used with care, PSP MixBass2 (part of MIxPack2) adds excellent and instant analog warmth/fatness to synth basses. However, you can easily overdo it, filling up the lower/mid end of the mix - careful tweaking of the controls and then passing the result through some EQ is the way to go IMHO.

Next up on my demo list will be URS Saturation, Voxegno's plugins, and SPL's TwinTube. I'll let you know my thoughts (although I have to say that I am a sucker for VSTs that look the part - some of the GUIs look far more authentic/classy than others). In addition, the PSP, URS and SPL plugins are substantially more expensive than the Voxegno plugins - are they worth it I wonder...?

Thanks again.

[barderc]

I've been thinking about this some more.

Some analog synths had separate circuits for each voice. I.e. in an 8 voice machine there would be 8 VCOs + 8 VCFs + 8VCFs, with each voice using one of each. Each of these circuits, and thus voices, would be marginally different in operation, adding up to randomness = the desired warmth + fatness.

So surely the answer is just to construct a VST in this way? This would then avoid the need for exterior solutions such as compressors, saturators, harmonic enhancers etc.

I was always a fan of Oberheim, having been wowed by the bass sounds that Vince Clark got from his Matrix Xpander. Therefore when I got into VST synths I had to have the Sonic Projects OPX-Pro. Hey presto, this uses precisely the individual voice architecture described above. While this synth does not have a lot of the bells and whistles of some VST synths, it was never meant to - it set out to recreate the original Oberheim OB-X and it really is very hard to tell them apart. Read the technical details on their website SonicProjects Separate Voice Design (SVD), listen to the demos, and check out Youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqHR1HIelE- you will see what I mean - fantastic warmth and fatness, with no help from compressors or reverbs etc.

So the question is this - are Sonic Projects the only VST maker to have created their synth using this separate voice architecture and if so, why? In particular, Arturia use their own TAE technology and their website explains the logic and effectiveness of this, but do their synths also have a separate voice architecture? They already sound great but this would surely make them even better/more precise emulations of the classics they emulate?

I really don't want this turning into a who makes the best anolog sounding VST thread, but I am interested to know if the Sonic Projects approach is unique.

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[steffensen]

Originally Posted by barderc

I was always a fan of Oberheim, having been wowed by the bass sounds that Vince Clark got from his Matrix Xpander.

Sorry to go off topic, but exactly what album/songs did he use the Xpander for kicks? All i know is when he makde synthbased kicks he used his ARP2600 or the Roland System 100m.

[barderc]

I saw him twice at the Mean Fiddler, Harlesden, London, circa 1985 with Erasure, using the Xpander. So Erasure for sure - don't know what else. Check out Oberheim Xpander - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia etc.

Can we get back on topic! - is the Sonic Projects OP-X multi-voice architecture unique among VST synths?


PS: From distant memory, he used a Roland TR-707 drum machine for onstage kicks.

[steffensen]

Isnt the OP-X just another SE synth? (preparing for the slaughter)
Doesnt sound that amazing, ur very similar to the real thing to me.