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PRODIJ
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#1
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Super noob questions- iluminate me

I have been playing guitar for like 7 years ( I am 18 haha). always been into electronic music. And I have decided I will buy some gear.

So...

I have been thinking about buying Ableton live 8 suite and a midi keyboard.
(I think in this option mainly because I think it is very versatile)

or..

A moog LP a small mixer and active montors.
(Always thought analog sounds better.. well at least thats my expirience with tube amps.)

which one do you think is more convenient?? better?? or what could you recomend me..

And sorry if my english is bad, not my main language
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Ableton will allow you to re-mix, etc. Very versatile as you said.

Whereas an analogue mixer will be more direct, in-your-hands, etc.

I am an analogue guy

Get what you pay for as they say. For sure others will recommend software for its convenience and cost.

I've used a LP about a month ago and it compares quite well to my old vintage Roland mono synthesisers. Nice 'fat' warm sound.

Depending on your skill at the Piano a poly might be in order.

These are VERY broad generalisations so what exactly do you want to accomplish?

No problem je me parles le francais comme ma langue maternelle.
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24th July 2009
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Definitely the MOOG! Once you go analog, its incredibly hard to go back to software.

I know it has been for me. and im 22, and almost fully analog.
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24th July 2009
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Wha? I am like older than you 1984 - figure it out. I thought of you as an older person than the visage posting.

Analogue is the future - forget soft synths and plugs. They're temporary in some way.

That LP is cool. Also try Ableton as a ghetto sampler from the moog for original sounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architecture View Post
Definitely the MOOG! Once you go analog, its incredibly hard to go back to software.

I know it has been for me. and im 22, and almost fully analog.
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lain2097 View Post
These are VERY broad generalisations so what exactly do you want to accomplish?
Well.. I like rave music. I like to mix some guitars with electronic stuff. ALA..prodigy

I also like music like scooter, Crystal Castles, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, CCS, Underworld, chemical brothers

I know they are very different styles..

I hope it helps for you to help me
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRODIJ View Post
I have been playing guitar for like 7 years ( I am 18 haha). always been into electronic music. And I have decided I will buy some gear.

So...

I have been thinking about buying Ableton live 8 suite and a midi keyboard.
(I think in this option mainly because I think it is very versatile)

or..

A moog LP a small mixer and active montors.
(Always thought analog sounds better.. well at least thats my expirience with tube amps.)

which one do you think is more convenient?? better?? or what could you recomend me..

And sorry if my english is bad, not my main language
If you tell me your budget (how much money) I will make suggestions.
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRODIJ View Post
A moog LP a small mixer and active montors.
But what will you record & arrange with?
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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If you would like to record your guitar playing as well as your keyboard playing and make complete tracks the suggestion that is so overwhelmingly shouted here to get the LP "because it's analog" is criminally, terminally stupid and the other posters who suggested it should take a minute and think practically instead of what they would do. tutt

While it is a nice piece of kit, it is something you generally buy when you have the rest of your setup already complete - or you use it for gigging only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lain2097 View Post
Get what you pay for as they say.
Ableton is 349 euros (download version). A MIDI keyboard is 150 euros.

When the money is spent for that LP, what do you think will be left for that small mixer and monitors? It won't be much. You indeed get what you pay for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRODIJ View Post
Well.. I like rave music. I like to mix some guitars with electronic stuff. ALA..prodigy
Just the Little Phatty by itself won't get you there. Early Prodigy is very much sample-based. Scooter have a boatload of virtual analogs in the studio. Depeche Mode may go back to analog for composing, but they use a Virus TI on stage. Kraftwerk is completely laptop now.

Without a sampler of some kind you won't have anything to play back loops. Without a recording solution of some kind you'll just be forced to play either your guitar or the LP, but not both at the same time. Unless of course you have a 4-track tape recorder, and in that case, you still won't have a sampler.

If you want the best of both worlds, get the LP and buy a cheaper sequencer like Reaper, or buy an audio interface (you're going to need that anyway) and use the included version of Ableton Live Lite. When your wallet is filled up again, upgrade to the full version (you get a nice discount if you do so).
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24th July 2009
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I agree that he'd still need ableton in any case to record to (that's a given). Monitors are also a given or at least a decent set of cans.

Softsynths also cost money. What are you going to suggest he get Ableton and torrent cracked NI products like so many others?

That LP can be re-sold with a minimum of hassle and loss - try that with software one or two years+ from now.

It's an option and we gave it. I don't know the OP so I can't sit and have a chat with him - neither can you.

An old Portastudio or DAT deck can be had for peanuts compared to purchasing the DAW. That's also a possibility to not automatically suggest software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
If you would like to record your guitar playing as well as your keyboard playing and make complete tracks the suggestion that is so overwhelmingly shouted here to get the LP "because it's analog" is criminally, terminally stupid and the other posters who suggested it should take a minute and think practically instead of what they would do. tutt

While it is a nice piece of kit, it is something you generally buy when you have the rest of your setup already complete - or you use it for gigging only.


Ableton is 349 euros (download version). A MIDI keyboard is 150 euros.

When the money is spent for that LP, what do you think will be left for that small mixer and monitors? It won't be much. You indeed get what you pay for.



Just the Little Phatty by itself won't get you there. Early Prodigy is very much sample-based. Scooter have a boatload of virtual analogs in the studio. Depeche Mode may go back to analog for composing, but they use a Virus TI on stage. Kraftwerk is completely laptop now.

Without a sampler of some kind you won't have anything to play back loops. Without a recording solution of some kind you'll just be forced to play either your guitar or the LP, but not both at the same time. Unless of course you have a 4-track tape recorder, and in that case, you still won't have a sampler.

If you want the best of both worlds, get the LP and buy a cheaper sequencer like Reaper, or buy an audio interface (you're going to need that anyway) and use the included version of Ableton Live Lite. When your wallet is filled up again, upgrade to the full version (you get a nice discount if you do so).
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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IMO get Ableton Live Suite, an multi-channel audio interface, USB keyboard contoller and a pair of powered studio monitors.
With that set-up you have drums, loops, synths and a full DAW environment with the keyboard to control it. Plus you have the interface for recording you guitars and whatever synths you get in the future.

*Plus if you are a student you can get education discounts for most (if not all) of that stuff too!*

Getting a great synth like the LP is a great idea once you have the basic needs of you studio set up. Without the means to sequence, record, loop and with drums, what can you really do besides play around?

Good luck with your choice!
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Hey there

I'm to a serious noob ;D

So i started with a midikeyboard, then go with trial version of ableton.
And now I'm the proudly owner of a Moog LP.

My advantage for you is save your money, plan for the furture.
When you plan so nothing can go wrong...

I'm glad that i've started so won't sell the Lp or the monitors.

So First start with Monitors and IO Interface in my opinion.

Peace Flow
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24th July 2009
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i've been a fan of electronic music since the mid 80's but just recently got inspired to make my own.

i have to say something though. i very much dislike the fact that DAWs and recording solutions are high on the list of priorities of gear.

it is as if people want to run before they can walk. and this is why i feel that the majority of attempts to create music result in complete shit. this is why there are 100,000,000 myspace bands making crap music, and this crap music is even getting released... albeit by small labels.

the over saturation lowers the bar in my opinion.


what i think you should do if you're interested in electronic music is getting that moog LP, a decent amp for it like a Peavy KB 300 or Roland KC-550 for starters. and use that to learn about subtractive synthesis which will give you a rock solid foundation to build upon.

if you have a decent computer i would then suggest getting an audio interface. most sequencing and sampling can be done via digital means, saving you a ton of money without losing production quality and the audio interface will allow you to explore all the different forms of digital synthesis, sequence both softsynths and your moog LP thus allowing you to play your guitar over sequenced synths, drums, etc.

this is the route i've taken and i believe it is beneficial to learning how to actually play your synthesizer before you jump into recording.
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lain2097 View Post
Softsynths also cost money. What are you going to suggest he get Ableton and torrent cracked NI products like so many others?
I can honestly say that I have never ever recommended anyone to get warezed softsynths - there is simply no reason to. Synth1, Polyiblit, Crystal and several others are excellent - but Windows only, though. Computer Music magazine has an entire package with it, so you're up and running for the price of a few beers; and if you can't get something done with Synth1 you won't get any value out of anything more expensive anyway; you'll stick to the crutch of presets.

Quote:
It's an option and we gave it. I don't know the OP so I can't sit and have a chat with him - neither can you.
No, but the option isn't realistic for someone starting out to blow all the cash on a single machine that won't be of much use without anything else. It's like dumping a mall in a desert - perhaps it's awesome but useless without supporting infrastructure. Everyone else here already has this infrastructure and that is overlooked.

Tsarin: a DAW is simply important because it has several vital parts of your studio at once - mixer, EQ, dynamics, effects. It maximizes the money you can spend on toys, since a cheap mixer and set of monitors are not going to be spectacular anyway.
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24th July 2009
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I would have to agree with most of what is being said here. Don't get the instruments first. Set yourself up with a good to highend recording chain. And then add instruments as money becomes available. In the meantime compose with softsynths and your guitar.

Quick computer, ( Obvious reasons )
Quick external hard drive, ( Obvious reasons - You don't want to record to your system drive)
Good/Highend preamp with DI (To record your guitars and synths with,
Good Analogue to digital converter ( This makes sure that your analogue audio is transferred to your computer at the best quality possible )
Good Digital to analogue converter ( To listen back to your recordings at the best possible quality )
Good Monitors ( Obviously the important part of recording is listening to what you are recording )
And a DAW (Logic or protools LE would be better for building tracks than Ableton in my opinion but this is subjective and there is no right or wrong )

Bear in mind that the more average gear you buy .. The more you will have to spend in the long run to replace it when you decide to upgrade. And average equipment is difficult to sell.

Hope that helps

Luke
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24th July 2009
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Obviously the list I have suggested would set you back quite a bit of cash.. But if you are going to go for an all in one recording device for your computer ( Preamp/DI/converters) Then get something that is decent like the Apoggee Ensemble.

If you are analogue guy ( Which it sounds like you are ) then building a functioning analogue environment without recording to a computer is going to be much more hard work.

But to record to computer and get the best out of your analogue instruments you need to spend some money on getting it recorded properly

Again.. hope that helps. Do some research based on what everyone is telling you here and take your time...
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24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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First of all thank you guys for your help

I think I am going for..

the ableton live 8 suite
a cheap midi keyboard to control ableton
the moog little phatty which will go into the mixer
studio monitors
I have a shure sm57 laying around so maybe the mixer is a good idea I could mic my cabs

I think with these setup I could make at least some interesting tracks..
#17
24th July 2009
Old 24th July 2009
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You could use the Little Phatty as a MIDI controller - the synth may be monophonic, the MIDI output isn't

Do check out the trial and the videos on the Ableton site to whet your appetite.
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24th July 2009
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24th July 2009
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You need both! An analog and then snatch some digital VA for cheap.
Id stay from soft synths!!!
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24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
You could use the Little Phatty as a MIDI controller - the synth may be monophonic, the MIDI output isn't

Do check out the trial and the videos on the Ableton site to whet your appetite.

Good point Yoozer. The phatty can serve two purposes with lots of knobs to control whatever you wish.
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24th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRODIJ View Post
First of all thank you guys for your help

I think I am going for..

the ableton live 8 suite
a cheap midi keyboard to control ableton
the moog little phatty which will go into the mixer
studio monitors
I have a shure sm57 laying around so maybe the mixer is a good idea I could mic my cabs

I think with these setup I could make at least some interesting tracks..
Good decisions so far.
I would recommend you keeping an eye on an audio-interface if you want to record your synth for 'inside the DAW editing'. Good mixing and adding effects to the synth with your mixer only needs a lot of outboar gear you dont have at the moment. Start digital, upgrade analog later (with more experience and knowlegde its turning out to better decisions)
By the way, dont know if you are a student but ableton offers education-versions ,-)
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25th July 2009
Old 25th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRODIJ View Post
First of all thank you guys for your help

I think I am going for..

the ableton live 8 suite
a cheap midi keyboard to control ableton
the moog little phatty which will go into the mixer
studio monitors
I have a shure sm57 laying around so maybe the mixer is a good idea I could mic my cabs

I think with these setup I could make at least some interesting tracks..
Depends what mixer.. No point in buying a great synth and then putting it through an inferior mixer.. especially if you plan to record that signal.

Preamps on small cheap mixers are usually less than ideal.

If you are not trying to record anything then ignore that comment. If the mixer is just for playback then that shouldn't be a problem.

luke
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25th July 2009
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buy it all, sort out the technicality's later.
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25th July 2009
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on the serious side of things. i LOVE moog. im more a vintage moog fanatic myself, but the lp is pretty god damn hard hitting. i cant even really play keys that well and i made some sexy sexy noise with that beast. definitly the best of moogs recent development ihmo.

i think the lp has midi, if so it may be possible to use that as a midi keyboard too, and eliminate the need for a midi keyboard. id do the research on that though and make sure.


if your going analog on the mix, soundcraft has made some solid mixing solutions over the years for mid-range prices. i personally own the soundcraft series 500, and a delta 200. love them. very little i dont like about them.

monitors, id suggest tannoy, though im not fluent in monitors. i picked a pair of reveal 5a's recently and love them. clear sound. you
can get decent used prices on the 'bay.

prodigy baby. yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

supposedly the moog prodigy is what they derived there name from, for its phat bass. of which i can attest, definitly some phatty phat bass. expensive, but worth the haul.
#25
12th August 2009
Old 12th August 2009
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The Moog LP has a function called Local Cntrl on / off.
So you can run Midi in your LP gettin sweet analog sounds and play polyphony soft synth with your LP Keyboard.

Greetz
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12th August 2009
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Get a good multi i/o interface, the LP can go strait into that, and the LP can be your midi controller as stated. Spend as much as you can on monitors.



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#27
12th August 2009
Old 12th August 2009
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Hi. Heres my two cents. I agree with waht someone else already said. You need the basics first.


Focus on getting Ablton a decent audio interface and nice monitors.

Heres where I disagre with a lot of folks.

Do not buy the LP to start out with. Buy the Arturia Moog.

I am a hardware guy myself and still love the sound of this softsynth. It is really juicy.

I had all of the Arturia softsynths and the Moog is in my opinion the only great one out of the bunch.

Download the demo and try it out.

If you have the ability to make good music you can do it with this.
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