Jupiter 8 sluggish arpeggiator timing

[claesbjo]

Hi everyone, I just purchased my dreamsynth of all times, the mighty jp-8. A reason that I´ve been wanting it so bad is the really great and musical arpeggiator. On other specimens i´ve come across, the arpeggiator works really smooth and nice, just as in both my juno 60´s.

However, my Jupiter 8 has got some weirdness going on, it kind of looses timing when i add or remove notes from the arpeggio that i lay out on the keyboard. It sounds untight when i press down new keys, and then it goes back to normal timing. same problem with ext sync

Basically this means that i only can have one figure, as soon as i change chord or note, timing goes weird for a sec. My board has the groove-midi retrofit. Is this why it is weird do you think?

best regards

Claesbjo

[golden beers]

hmm sounds like it needs a trip to the doctors

i too had a groove-midi JP8 and it had some problems. my problem was the sound changed after the first midi note, it got thinner. work around was using prog change before every midi note. not fun. i advise you also check for this problem on your JP8. its quite subtle and easy to miss.




PS. do you have an early or late version JP8 do you know? you in the UK?

EDIT groove midi always had a bad rep, could be your problem i suppose. no idea

[clusterchord]

i have the same problem sometimes when using ext sync.. it could be a bug that comes along with midi retrofit installation. i cant say for sure, bcs i had mine retrofitted with Encore right away, seller shipped direct to my tech. i never heard it wihtout the midi.


when slaving it to my DAW midi clock, i had success with nudging the problematic notes ahead a few ticks, then it caught them ok. this solved most of the issues when i use it in midi arrangement.


however, this doesn't sound good when you want to play it live, slaved arp. since i use it live w RS7000, and have some other analog equipment sequenced midi->cv/gate, i tired feeding analog 5V clock to the the JP8 arpeggio input on the back and.... VOILA !!!

it is as tight as possible, as its midi sync can never be, no jumping notes when changing chords etc. flawless.




@golden beers: that is interesting, that kenton retorfit is 100% accurate. every jp8 i tried had this issue.. i was pretty sure its impossible to get it tight... that it was up to JP8 design , not the retorfit itself. .. and encore was highly recommended by many jp8 users, but alas... its shows the same symptoms..

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by clusterchord

@golden beers: that is interesting, that kenton retorfit is 100% accurate. every jp8 i tried had this issue.. i was pretty sure its impossible to get it tight... that it was up to JP8 design , not the retorfit itself. .. and encore was highly recommended by many jp8 users, but alas... its shows the same symptoms..

i'm talking about the arp clock set to internal/external here. not using midi.
the external is fed by my separate kenton box's arp out.

[clusterchord]

i see, so in a nutshell, you're using it the same way as i do..



so, a related question for you: i got the Kenton PRO2000 mk2.. and tried using its dedicated CLOCK out, fed it to JP input, and it didnt work. i tried different clock signal settings as offered in Kenton's controls. but no avail.


finally i got the JP to "see" the clock when i used a gate signal output coming to System100m played by Kenton. this scenario has its downsides, bcs if theres no notes playing on the peticular cv/gate out theres no clock for my JP.

any advice how to get the Kentons dedicated CLOCK out to work with JP ?


PS what Kenton unit do you use?


thanks
tom

[golden beers]

ok well the arp on the JP is something that I rarely use. to be honest i haven’t tried it on my PRO-2000. only on my PRO-2. i plug a lead in to the arp clock out of the kenton, and it works.

EDIT: my PRO-2 has a socket labelled 'arp clock'

my PRO-2000 has a socket labelled 'clock'

EDIT: PS i would say have a look at the settings in the PRO-2000 MK2 menu. may be a voltage thing. i was under the impression that the arp clock was just a square wave....

[golden beers]

hmmm thinking about the clock issue, could be phase? why not give kenton an email. must be a common question.

you may be able to 'fix' the clock with a modded audio lead. i did this for my linn drum.

to sync it we added a resistor or a diode or something (can't remember) to the hot of a jackplug and it worked.

[clusterchord]

ok. thats a good idea. ill try to contact Kenton too.


thanks

[claesbjo]

this is how it sounds btw..amazing, except for sucky timing

[GYang]

In my experience with several JP8 so far, Encore retrofit provided the best overal results. Arp timing MIDI synced works fine in the last one I still have.

[Mike6581]

Mine's got Groove MIDI and the timing isn't great. There are ways round how you play it. I've found if you hold notes down, adding new notes as you take different notes off it can help. It's a bit of a strange technique to explain! Another thing to try is putting "Hold" on - I've found that was the best way to use it on the Juno too - you will need to play around with the envelopes to get the best sound if you go down this route.

I've heard Groove MIDI's problem is that it uses up too much processing power of the poor old Jupiter 8's Z80 (same CPU as ZX81) - hence the Jupiter isn't quite as resonsive as it should be.

Groove MIDI isn't all bad though, one of the really interesting side-effects of it interfering with the arpeggio is that it sends the notes you play as an arpeggio out via MIDI so you can make some really, really interesting sounds if you plug it into some external devices (i.e. sampler).

Although Encore MIDI is supposed to be miles better, I don't fancy "un retro-fitting" the Groove MIDI, judging by the manual it's a very complex piece of kit.

[oldgearguy]

How are you guys driving the JP-8 clock? I have a non-MIDI JP-8 and an Encore MIDI JP-8 and I always used DIN sync. I never had a problem with that. Slave the JP-8 to a TR-808 and it doesn't wander or slow down.

I never actually tried the clock pulse input. The owner's manual doesn't specify the voltage or pulse width needed for the pulse input. As an added benefit - the slide switch above the sync inputs is active when you use the DIN sync connection.

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by Mike6581

I've heard Groove MIDI's problem is that it uses up too much processing power of the poor old Jupiter 8's Z80 (same CPU as ZX81) - hence the Jupiter isn't quite as resonsive as it should be.

Wouldn't it be possible to replace the existing Z80 with something like a Zilog eZ80, or do some of the instructions depend on the timing of the original (perhaps the arpeggiator) ?

[Mike6581]

I'm not sure it'd be that simple as I suspect you'd also have to replace the clock running the CPU to get any performance increase - which would have implications for the internal timings. Some of the other components may also struggle to run at the new clock speed.

To be honest, it's not catastrophically bad a Jupiter 8 with Groove MIDI, mine copes just fine. You just have to learn how to use the arpeggio to work around sluggish response. Having MIDI is more useful to me than the arpeggio anyway, which I consider a bit of a novelty.

[ZERB]

Hi to everybody with a groove midi retrofit.

Mine has a very strange midi behaviour and i wonder, if other jp8 groovemidi users experience the same:

The upper and lower midi cc are swapped, except VCO1 Tune and VCO2 Tune.

This affects incoming midi cc, not notes.

For example: The Midi CC for cutoff on the upper channel controls the vcf cutoff on the lower channel.

Also the preset memory and the faders are affected.

So, when i change the upper preset in split or dual mode, the VCO tune 1&2 of the lower is changed also.

VERY strange, isn't it?

please reply!

thanks

frank

[Mike6581]

I've never changed a parameter over MIDI but I have noticed that if you play the synth in split mode and you send notes to the low split that are above the split point on the synth, it plays the upper part. Bizarre!

I guess it's a bit rubbish Groove MIDI. It wasn't a deal-breaker for me, it was just the cheapest Jupiter at the time for me (by a considerable margin). Still, it's better than the MIDI on my JX-3P!

[ZERB]

Originally Posted by Mike6581

I've never changed a parameter over MIDI but I have noticed that if you play the synth in split mode and you send notes to the low split that are above the split point on the synth, it plays the upper part. Bizarre!

I guess it's a bit rubbish Groove MIDI. It wasn't a deal-breaker for me, it was just the cheapest Jupiter at the time for me (by a considerable margin). Still, it's better than the MIDI on my JX-3P!

aha! thats intresting!

could you please check if the faders of the jupiter in split mode beheave like they should? upper and lower should be swapped except vco 1&2 range (not tune, my mistake).
please also check incoming midi cc and saving presets in split mode. This should be swapped also.

many thanks & best regards

frank

do other groovemidi users experience the same?

[ZERB]

Originally Posted by claesbjo

this is how it sounds btw..amazing, except for sucky timing

the arpeggio timing on my machine is also not perfect, but it seems tighter than the mp3 you posted. try to disable midi communications in the system settings.

[Mike6581]

I tried the trick of turning off as many of the grove MIDI features as I could and it really did the job, it actually works how it's supposed to now the arpeggio! I thought it was doomed to failure.

If you wish to repeat this feat, when you've powered up the Jupiter, press "1" on the arpeggio section to bring up the MIDI receive info (I believe), click on any lights that are on the yellow arpeggio buttons or white voice assign buttons. Now press "2" on teh arpeggio section and do the same. Press 2 again to go out of Groove MIDI's menus and now select an arpeggio type and have a play. Mine was miles, miles more responsive. I also noticed that the aliasing on manually adjusting parameters was gone too.

Only downside is that it doesn't seem to remember you've done this once it's been switched off so you have to do it every time you want to use the arpeggio.

I'll have a try for the MIDI issues tonight Zerb and see what happens!

[ZERB]

Originally Posted by Mike6581

I tried the trick of turning off as many of the grove MIDI features as I could and it really did the job, it actually works how it's supposed to now the arpeggio! I thought it was doomed to failure.

If you wish to repeat this feat, when you've powered up the Jupiter, press "1" on the arpeggio section to bring up the MIDI receive info (I believe), click on any lights that are on the yellow arpeggio buttons or white voice assign buttons. Now press "2" on teh arpeggio section and do the same. Press 2 again to go out of Groove MIDI's menus and now select an arpeggio type and have a play. Mine was miles, miles more responsive. I also noticed that the aliasing on manually adjusting parameters was gone too.

Only downside is that it doesn't seem to remember you've done this once it's been switched off so you have to do it every time you want to use the arpeggio.

I'll have a try for the MIDI issues tonight Zerb and see what happens!

cool.
thanks for checking!

i think you can save midi-setup presets. check the manual
http://www.lintronics.de/manuals/Groove_JP8.PDF

[Don Solaris]

I'd like to help you guys. But... i didn't turned on my Jupiter 8 for about a year.





(runs and hides)

[claesbjo]

Originally Posted by Don Solaris

I'd like to help you guys. But... i didn't turned on my Jupiter 8 for about a year.

It must be broken then? Can´t see my self not turning on my JP8 less than everyday

[Don Solaris]

It's in perfect order. I just bought a lot of stuff lately and i'm exploring Andromeda - liking it more and more.

[Shabfish]

Can anyone help ?

I have a 'Roland Jupiter 8' with a Kenton Retrofit.

I am trying to get the Arpeggio to work in sync with Logic 9.1.5

But every time in put the Apreggio into 'EXT' Mode no sounds come out of the synth ?

If i play the Apreggio on the "INT" mode on the synth, it plays but it's out of sync to the project tempo.

The JP8 is sending and receiving 'MIDI' from logic as i can play and record in 'Normal' sounds but when you put it in 'Apreggio - EXT MODE' nothing comes out ........ ;-(

I have had this issue for many months now and haven't been able to get it to work !?!?

Could someone please help as it would be greatly appreciated....

[oldgearguy]

Originally Posted by Shabfish

Can anyone help ?

I have a 'Roland Jupiter 8' with a Kenton Retrofit.

I am trying to get the Arpeggio to work in sync with Logic 9.1.5

But every time in put the Apreggio into 'EXT' Mode no sounds come out of the synth ?

If i play the Apreggio on the "INT" mode on the synth, it plays but it's out of sync to the project tempo.

The JP8 is sending and receiving 'MIDI' from logic as i can play and record in 'Normal' sounds but when you put it in 'Apreggio - EXT MODE' nothing comes out ........ ;-(

I have had this issue for many months now and haven't been able to get it to work !?!?

Could someone please help as it would be greatly appreciated....

Can you verify that Logic is sending MIDI clock out the correct port? The Kenton manual says if the JP-8 is in EXT mode (and no other cables are plugged into the arp/sync port!) and nothing happens, it is not receiving MIDI clock.

My guess is that you have to enable MIDI clock send in Logic somewhere.

[Shabfish]

Thanks for the quick reply,

I have gone into Logic menu and done the following as i believe this will 'enable' the midi clock.

Synchronization - General - Sync mode - Internal

and

Synchronization - midi - Midi clock - transmit midi clock - JP8

[Jauqq]

I'm pretty sure the Kenton midi mod can not receive midi clock.... ? Cant see it mentioned here
Kenton JP8 Midi manual

You'd have to clock the JP8's Arp via the clock/trigger in or Din Sync in, while Logic is sending via midi the notes to be arpeggiated.
To send din sync from Logic you could use a midi clock to din sync box etc

[Shabfish]

Thanks for the quick reply,

My JP8 is the 12 bit version with no DCB so i have had the Kenton Retrofit installed.

[Shabfish]

The Kenton manual says if the JP-8 is in EXT mode (and no other cables are plugged into the arp/sync port!)

[Shabfish]

I have tired this to 'Enable' the midi clock in Logic and to send from the Port to the JP8.

Synchronisation - General - Sync Mode - Internal

Synchronisation - Midi - Midi Clock - Transmit - select Port

But it still not working ;-(

Are there any other settings i need to apply in logic ?