Ebay damaged item irritation...

[SWAN808]

So I just picked up an Akai MFC Filter to try with my Moog Source and P600. I got one from ebay from a seller with good feedback. Not a bad price - I made an offer of £160 and £10 postage - however one then sold after in auction for £146 which dismayed me. He offered me no insurance and sent it regular royal mail. I asked to package carefully and he said 'dont worry - I am wrapping it in bubblewrap!'.
Well thats all he did - no box - just 3 layers of regular bubblewrap and taped around.

It obviously got a bit of rough handling and it arrived with the main stereo Cuttoff knob bent at an angle. It works - but it points at an angle and 50% of its motion is quite stiff. Of course the Cuttoff is the most used control....
Its not the end of the world - but it has soured me a bit on the deal - especially as I paid a decent price on it...I have to count my pennies and I make my purchases based carefully on resell value....now I have a unit that is worth even less if I decide to sell due to the damage...

What do people think about this packaging concept? I complained and he said he has sent a Mackie 1604vlz pro before in just bubblewrap with no problems.

Well I think its BS to simply use bubblewrap...that was stupid and Im pissed off. He's told me he cant be accountable for Royal Mails handling and offered a £10 out of goodwill...Not sure whether just to take it on the chin or kick up a fuss...

Thoughts?

[Heathfinnie]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Well I think its BS to simply use bubblewrap...that was stupid and Im pissed off. He's told me he cant be accountable for Royal Mails handling and offered a £10 out of goodwill...Not sure whether just to take it on the chin or kick up a fuss...

Thoughts?

Well, he can be held accountable, thats the point of insurance. It's his responsibility to get it to you in the condition you purchased it in.

[Reptil]

yes, I agree. dumb move on his part.
request a refund and send it back (after recieving the refund)
quickest and least complicated

or... have a tech repair the knob (or do it yourself if you can) and ask a refund for the damages (send copy of invoice of repairs) - this is more complicated and will require coöperation and understanding of the seller.

best way to pack is bubblewrap box then more bubblewrap or something that can buffer heavy blows and then a sturdy outside box.

I've had heavy mixers and midi controllers (faders ! ) arrive here in just one thin layer of cardboard
some ppl. don't have any idea what will happen to a package

Royal Mail is worst IME, Dutch, German, French and Spanish mail and couriers are mostly very good, but Royal Mail is doing soccer or rugby games with heavy well packed gear. Wankers.

[Rick Sutton]

I'm stunned that ANY shipping service would accept a package that consists ONLY of bubblewrap. Am I reading this correctly that there wasn't a box around this?

[e6400ultra]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

So I just picked up an Akai MFC Filter to try with my Moog Source and P600. I got one from ebay from a seller with good feedback. Not a bad price - I made an offer of £160 and £10 postage - however one then sold after in auction for £146 which dismayed me. He offered me no insurance and sent it regular royal mail. I asked to package carefully and he said 'dont worry - I am wrapping it in bubblewrap!'.
Well thats all he did - no box - just 3 layers of regular bubblewrap and taped around.

It obviously got a bit of rough handling and it arrived with the main stereo Cuttoff knob bent at an angle. It works - but it points at an angle and 50% of its motion is quite stiff. Of course the Cuttoff is the most used control....
Its not the end of the world - but it has soured me a bit on the deal - especially as I paid a decent price on it...I have to count my pennies and I make my purchases based carefully on resell value....now I have a unit that is worth even less if I decide to sell due to the damage...

What do people think about this packaging concept? I complained and he said he has sent a Mackie 1604vlz pro before in just bubblewrap with no problems.

Well I think its BS to simply use bubblewrap...that was stupid and Im pissed off. He's told me he cant be accountable for Royal Mails handling and offered a £10 out of goodwill...Not sure whether just to take it on the chin or kick up a fuss...

Thoughts?

Just had a similar Ebay experience. 100% positive feedback seller. Rackmount format converter was wrapped in cardboard with no padding. I Left terrible feedback.

I say kick up a fuss on their ass. Ebay no longer allows retaliatory feedback from sellers, so your feedback will remain in tact regardless of the action you take.

[SWAN808]

the unit still works - so Im hesitant to send it back and have to go thru the rigmarole of waiting for another unit and having to bid etc...

I was thinking I could take a refund to its now current value. I guestimate people would prob pay a little less for it say something like £120.

Repairs get so expensive so quick. Say £24 post there and back - and 0.5 hours labour £30. £54 minimum.

So can I confirm: If he does not offer insurance - he is liable according to some sort of rule?

[Reptil]

yep - seller determines way of shipping (and communicates this to potential buyers before the end of the auction) and is liable to get the gear to the buyer in the shape as advertised. You can start a "conflict" at ebay, but I'd communicate your firm demands first to the seller. If he doesn't comply, you can start the "conflict" anyway. Ebay likes when you tried. Communicate only through ebay, and have transcripts of your messages sent to you by ebay.
buyer pays shipping and transfer cost (seller cannot deal with this, some buyers are living far away, do not want to use IBAN banktransfers (because they're paranoïd or just dickheads), and this requires more €£$
seller pays ebay (advertising cost)
you can make exceptions but that's how most deals I did went through.. just three surprises in a couple of years thumbsup

is it a simple potmeter? then 20 quid would be sufficient (low cost part & labour = 20 £
I remember the Akai having midi though... open it up and take a picture, and write down the part no#
it might be a midi encoder that broke - fix it now, later is for your own account.

[chrisso]

I say take the £10 offered.

If the seller offered no insurance you should have insisted on it.
At the end of the day, Ebay is full of inexperienced people. If you are more experienced you have to lead them through every stage of the process asking lot's of questions.
If no insurance is offered, how is the sender liable?

[SWAN808]

Ive started a dispute within Paypal. My demands are either a partial refund / pay for repair or a full refund.

Mainly I want a refund for its loss in value I dont think I should pay for a bad packing job causing damage.

Thanks for the advice so far...

[chrisso]

Pay for repair is a completely reasonable request.
As to value.... who knows. There is no absolute value for used items as you saw yourself when one sold for less than you paid.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I say take the £10 offered.

If the seller offered no insurance you should have insisted on it.
At the end of the day, Ebay is full of inexperienced people. If you are more experienced you have to lead them through every stage of the process asking lot's of questions.
If no insurance is offered, how is the sender liable?

the sender is always liable. just like in any business transaction.
damaged because of negligence or plain bad luck means a "no show".
just like not paying any money would also be a "no show"
sellers know this or should've known this. ignorance is not an excuse.

Insurance is standard on most but the cheapest shipping inside europe, up to 500 euros. But it's a lot of hassle to prove that the item was damaged in transit and not before. (hint: document shipping as a habit, with photos and a log) most ppl. don't so that's why sellers are often hesitant to pay up.
plus... most of the time insurance is offered when shipping goods. (at least in my country).

I've refunded buyers from gear that was damaged and gave them a freebie for the trouble. I think that is good business. equally if it's between "private parties" or business to business

[space2012]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

So I just picked up an Akai MFC Filter to try with my Moog Source and P600. I got one from ebay from a seller with good feedback. Not a bad price - I made an offer of £160 and £10 postage - however one then sold after in auction for £146 which dismayed me. He offered me no insurance and sent it regular royal mail. I asked to package carefully and he said 'dont worry - I am wrapping it in bubblewrap!'.
Well thats all he did - no box - just 3 layers of regular bubblewrap and taped around.

It obviously got a bit of rough handling and it arrived with the main stereo Cuttoff knob bent at an angle. It works - but it points at an angle and 50% of its motion is quite stiff. Of course the Cuttoff is the most used control....
Its not the end of the world - but it has soured me a bit on the deal - especially as I paid a decent price on it...I have to count my pennies and I make my purchases based carefully on resell value....now I have a unit that is worth even less if I decide to sell due to the damage...

What do people think about this packaging concept? I complained and he said he has sent a Mackie 1604vlz pro before in just bubblewrap with no problems.

Well I think its BS to simply use bubblewrap...that was stupid and Im pissed off. He's told me he cant be accountable for Royal Mails handling and offered a £10 out of goodwill...Not sure whether just to take it on the chin or kick up a fuss...

Thoughts?

give a negative feedback and learn from it.

[nofi]

I'd just go for sending it back, and get my money returned. then wait for another to show up and buy that.


if you can't repair it yourself then 10 pounds won't cover repair, and with a bent knob it's worth way less than what you paid for it.

[golden beers]

if you can live with it and the low re-sell than keep it.

if you can't, go for full refund.

[fanriffic]

That's totally fair-you should not have to pay,in money or damaged goods for this.

I'd be screwing if I got something like that just wrapped in bubble wrap..what was the guy thinking..??

Price up full cost of repair-(+ shipping)-to get it back to the condition you bought it in..and give the guy the choice-full refund or full cost of repair..keep it polite but firm.

....I once got a Logan melody string machine-which I bought in mint condition-shipped to me wrapped in...just...wall paper.

Its got a kind of built in hard case,like many of the keyboards from that era did-so it wasn't quite the same..but I still weren't best pleased-not when I'd paid a premium for its condition.

Luckily it was fine.

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Ive started a dispute within Paypal. My demands are either a partial refund / pay for repair or a full refund.

Mainly I want a refund for its loss in value as Im F*cked if I should pay for a pathetic packing job causing damage. I think by the sounds of it as a buyer you have quite a bit of clout on Ebay these days so I might as well use it - as this is a reasonable case.

Thanks for the advice so far...

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by fanriffic

That's totally fair-you should not have to pay,in money or damaged goods for this.

I'd be screwing if I got something like that just wrapped in bubble wrap..what was the guy thinking..??

Price up full cost of repair-(+ shipping)-to get it back to the condition you bought it in..and give the guy the choice-full refund or full cost of repair..keep it polite but firm.

....I once got a Logan melody string machine-which I bought in mint condition-shipped to me wrapped in...just...wall paper.

Its got a kind of built in hard case,like many of the keyboards from that era did-so it wasn't quite the same..but I still weren't best pleased-not when I'd paid a premium for its condition.

Luckily it was fine.

well in the end we rigorously discussed via a Paypal conflict and managed to come to an agreement of a refund of £30 which was what I asked for and thought was fair.

However he would NOT agree with me that wrapping studio equiptment only in bubblewrap was a bad idea. He refused to admit it prob would not have happened if he put it in a box. It was pretty annoying to be honest - as part of the reason I took unbridge was because he was so nonchalant.

He also claimed to not be able to see the damage in the picture. Stupid bastard was in COMPLETE DENIAL!

AHHHHH!

Well now its over. He agreed to pay up to end the dispute - and I did not leave bad feedback despite the fact due to this - which was difficult because the stubborn bitch will probably live another day to use bubblewrap. Thanks for the support.

SWAN

[sameal]

good god tell me about it. the shipping apes have raped many a unit on its way to my house.

the worst, was a vintage carvin tube amp i purchased. it was a little rough, nothing i couldnt deal with, in the photo's. i got it and the amp head was smashed so that the side of the head box blew out, smashing two of the tubes, and two of the other tubes fell out and rolled safely into a corner. the blow was so heavy it dented the cabinet packed in the same box underneath the head.

me: you broke my f%^ing amp!

ups: we can refund you the price if you give us the amp

me: it was a vintage piece! i got a deal! i cant do this again!

ups: oh well.

bastards. what can brown do for you? f&ck yo shit up! im 100% fed ex. this is just one experience with that company.

[kazper]

Originally Posted by sameal

good god tell me about it. the shipping apes have raped many a unit on its way to my house.

the worst, was a vintage carvin tube amp i purchased. it was a little rough, nothing i couldnt deal with, in the photo's. i got it and the amp head was smashed so that the side of the head box blew out, smashing two of the tubes, and two of the other tubes fell out and rolled safely into a corner. the blow was so heavy it dented the cabinet packed in the same box underneath the head.

me: you broke my f%^ing amp!

ups: we can refund you the price if you give us the amp

me: it was a vintage piece! i got a deal! i cant do this again!

ups: oh well.

bastards. what can brown do for you? f&ck yo shit up! im 100% fed ex. this is just one experience with that company.

Figuring that UPS smashed it up it's not worth the price you paid anymore and the settlement is probably a deal anyways.

I've always wondered if you sent a carton of eggs insured for $10K and they get broke is it worth $5 or $10k when you deal with them.

My guess is what ever it takes to replace them as long as it's under the 10K.

[F5D]

My JD-800 took some hit during the shipping too. The seller had something like 99.8 % good feedback and promised to pack it well. There was bubble wrap and some clothes inside the box. The right back corner was damaged and I had to glue the plastic pieces together. Of course it does not look like a new corner anymore but luckily my stand is positioned in such a way that I cannot see that corner. There were also some other things that needed fixing. One key did not work, volume pot was scratchy, half of the panel LEDs were dead and all of the microswitches on the front panels were dead. I took the whole synth apart and cleaned & changed all necessary parts. Now it is in very good shape but in the future, I will definitely think twice before purchasing anything this large. Only rack equipment or similar size for me from ebay...

[analogbass]

No offense but you were stupid to accept the package without insurance for full value. That has to be automatic and costs pennies. Doesn't matter whether the auction specified insurance, you have to INSIST on on it or no deal. Otherwise you're not covered and you're the one who will get burned again.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by analogbass

No offense but you were stupid to accept the package without insurance for full value. That has to be automatic and costs pennies. Doesn't matter whether the auction specified insurance, you have to INSIST on on it or no deal. Otherwise you're not covered and you're the one who will get burned again.

well you say that - but in the uk my experience so far with couriers is that if you pack small-medium size items well - you do not have any problems.

Insurance for items the majority of the time I view as an unneccessary tax on fear they levy on you - to do the job they should do anyways. WHy should I pay them extra to deliver an item? Insurance schemes and services like warranty are huge money makers these days and IMO a lot of them are complete bullshit.

I would say this being the first time in 3 years of ebay trading I have had a problem - that I have saved much money (more than any claim I have had to make) from not spending on insurance and simply packing well. After all - Insurance is a business and the shipping companies are making money from their own ineptitude. This is a model I have a problem with paying for. I'd rather pack well and use shipping companies who dont damage items.

Of course - you cannot always rely on the seller to pack well. Although again - this is the first idiot I have come across. I do hear many more horror stories from over your side of the pond tho - but maybe thats simply due to more trading.

HOWEVER. On something like a vintage synth or other expensive and fragile item - I do find insurance to be appropriate.

THis incident does make me think. However - in my dealing in the past with insurance companies - they will do their very best to **** you over even if you did take out insurance with them - and weasel out of the deal. Getting money out of them is like getting blood out of a stone.

IMO better to do an awesome packing job or simply not send items that are very big or fragile...

[golden beers]

Originally Posted by analogbass

No offense but you were stupid to accept the package without insurance for full value. That has to be automatic and costs pennies. Doesn't matter whether the auction specified insurance, you have to INSIST on on it or no deal. Otherwise you're not covered and you're the one who will get burned again.

it depends on the situation and the item eg:

if you're importing from USA into the UK it's really a ratio of risk vs reward.
if you value, say a brand new UAD-2 QUAD as $100, well you only pay TAX for that value (all inc between £20-£30!). the UAD box is huge and full of foam. very small chance of damage to the card.

if you (not you personally analogbass) want to turn your nose up at saving £300-£500 on pointless tax in this case. go ahead and get insurance.

Legal disclaimer: everyone should pay tax no matter how stupid it is.

[chrisso]

Insurance isn't pointless if your equipment arrives damaged.
I agree, insurance costs pennies and is worth it every time just for peace of mind.
Sometimes packages go missing completely and never arrive.

[RussMaGuss]

send some BAD BAD feedback his way.

complain to e-bay that he shouldn't have shipped in in just bubble wrap. that's ridiculous. and before doing this, i'd take the 10 pounds as well, haha