Side Chain compression with kick muted?

[mullet]

Can someone please tell me how to achieve side chain compression without hearing the kick..

For instance, going into a kick-less breakdown, I want to hear the side chain compressor on the pad, without hearing the kick. It seems when I lower the volume on the kick, the side chain compressor diminishes as well..

How do I achieve this? Thanks!

[andrewsc]

You can send the kick signal via a subgroup or aux send (try prefader) to the sidechain key input, then mute the kick channel. Using a copy of the kick track or a separate kick just to trigger the sidechain may be the most flexible method, then you can eq the kick to get the amplitude shape you want and eq your audible kick to taste. Also sometimes you may want to slide the kick triggering the sidechain backward in time slightly (relative to the audible kick) to adjust for the compressor attack settings and fine tune the feel.

[Johnny Wrong]

Or just double the kick channel and call the second channel SC Kick, then route that channel to "No Output" if your sequencer has that option.

[msl]

Like Johnny and Andrew, I have a separate 4/4 kick track running all the way through the song, that is set to "no output" which feeds the side chain. I have this already set up in my template so I don't need to do it every time. This way I can edit it as I want to hit or not independently of the audible kick, cause sometimes its nice to skip a 1/4 note here and there, and in break downs it adds a bit of variation.


.

[degas]

I never use a kick, I use a sharp "metronomey" sound instead.
Works better for me.

[Assistant]

like said before, use a pre fader aux send for the sidechain so you can mute the kick or lower the volume

easiest way and works fine for me

[mullet]

Originally Posted by msl

Like Johnny and Andrew, I have a separate 4/4 kick track running all the way through the song, that is set to "no output" which feeds the side chain. I have this already set up in my template so I don't need to do it every time. This way I can edit it as I want to hit or not independently of the audible kick, cause sometimes its nice to skip a 1/4 note here and there, and in break downs it adds a bit of variation.


.

Thanks for the help guys. Im still a bit confused.. The problem I'm having is that soon as I mute the kick track, the side chain is killed. How can I have a silent kick running, that still is able to pump the side chain? Sorry, I know this is probably basic stuff...

[Derp]

Originally Posted by mullet

Thanks for the help guys. Im still a bit confused.. The problem I'm having is that soon as I mute the kick track, the side chain is killed. How can I have a silent kick running, that still is able to pump the side chain? Sorry, I know this is probably basic stuff...

Just have two tracks with the same kick on them. Output one to the sidechain and the other to your master bus. When you mute the one going to the master, the sidechain one will still be running.

[crufty]

Derp and others have good ideas.

At the end of the day, you want to have three kick tracks, in essence:

one physical kick track boom boom boom for the song.
one physical kick track boom boom boom for the side chain...that feeds another track that is in turn muted.

How this is done varies by daw. for example, in logic, if memory serves, you could setup one kick as normal (track #1). Then another, track #2, w/output to a buss (track #3) that is in turn muted. Then setup your compressor to use kick track #2. Since Bus 1 aka Track 3 is muted, and all output of track #2 goes to bus 1/ track 3, you never hear the kick. But the the kick is still producing volume for the side chain compressor.

Just one of many ways to get there, probably a slicker way to do it.

[andrewsc]

A prefader aux send means that the signal sent through the aux send is not affected by the fader setting. Making a second copy of the kick sequence to create a dedicated sidechain trigger track is the most flexible method though.

[mullet]

Originally Posted by Derp

Just have two tracks with the same kick on them. Output one to the sidechain and the other to your master bus. When you mute the one going to the master, the sidechain one will still be running.

but would there not still be sound coming from the one outputted to the side chain?

[kasprouch]

Originally Posted by mullet

but would there not still be sound coming from the one outputted to the side chain?

to set it up like the others are suggesting, do it like this:


Sidechain setup:

- audio track 1 has your main kick thats heard throughout your track
- audio track 2 has the same kick thats feeding the sidechain

Routing:

- audio track 1 sent to your 'MASTER' or drum buss or wherever you usually send your kick.
- audio track 2 is sent to 'No Bus', or whatever your sequencer says.



Make sure you're routing the physical output of the track to nothing and you wont hear it.

[timbreman]

Just use Abletons built in sidechain and you only need one kick track.
You can even mute the kick track and it will still keep the sidechain goin.
I used to do all that nonsense with multiple kick tracks....waste of time. Just use Ableton.
But if you are convinced your sidechain plugin is better then just bounce the track already sidechained....problem solved.

[mullet]

got it. Thanks guys!!

[mullet]

Originally Posted by timbreman

Just use Abletons built in sidechain and you only need one kick track.
You can even mute the kick track and it will still keep the sidechain goin.
I used to do all that nonsense with multiple kick tracks....waste of time. Just use Ableton.
But if you are convinced your sidechain plugin is better then just bounce the track already sidechained....problem solved.

so basically, i've got the kick running all the way through the whole mix, but I'm going to mute the parts where I dont want to hear the kick? Thus maintaining side chain throughout..

[CircusofMind]

I like to do a copy of the kick with all midi notes on a separate channel with no output. I do this so I can nudge the sidechain trigger back a little so that the compressor starts to act slightly before the actual kick. This way the attack of the compressor slides to its most compressed right as the kick snaps.

[bleepbleep]

this is how i do it without hearing kik

[greenears]

Originally Posted by mullet

so basically, i've got the kick running all the way through the whole mix, but I'm going to mute the parts where I dont want to hear the kick? Thus maintaining side chain throughout..

only if you're using ableton!

[jude]

Originally Posted by timbreman

I used to do all that nonsense with multiple kick tracks....waste of time. Just use Ableton.

abeleton isnt perfect for everyone. some of us hate it so saying just use abelton is about as helpful as telling someone how to use the list editor in cubase when they want to know how to set up enviroments in logic

[timbreman]

Originally Posted by jude

abeleton isnt perfect for everyone. some of us hate it so saying just use abelton is about as helpful as telling someone how to use the list editor in cubase when they want to know how to set up enviroments in logic

Different Daws for different purposes. I always use Ableton for rough drafts and then render out into acid pro. Having a few different DAWs available for different purposes is just my preference.

[mullet]

well I've recently switched to ableton and I like it a helluva lot better than cubase for pretty much everything..