mellotron or arp pro-soloist?

[kingdice86]

my knowledge of keys is miniscule compared to most everyone here, so let me ask:

from Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot, to Selling England By The Pound, Tony Banks made good use of some vintage sampler (strings and choir on tape) and i know that both were in his care during this time, so which is being used more and can you tell me, for example, which is being used on "watcher of the skies"?

i always thought that it was a mellotron, and if so, what did Tony use the arp for?

[Yoozer]

The ProSoloist is a pure synthesizer with constrained controls (e.g. not as many knobs as you wish for). It's also monophonic, so forget about chords . If you sign up here (it's purely so they don't suffer from bandwidth leeches - you won't get spammed!) there is an excellent review + a whole set of great sound demos for the ProSoloist, so you can get an idea of what it's used for.

The strings and choir you mention come out of a Mellotron.

[LNerell]

The opening to Watcher of the Skies was mellotron, I believe it was brass and strings with a bit of Hammond organ mixed in. The ProSoloist as mentioned was a preset synth that from my understanding was only used in concert. When in the studio and they needed a synth sound they used an Arp 2600 instead of the ProSoloist. Off the top of my head I think Selling England By The Pound might have been the first album they used a synth, but I am not at the moment 100% sure.

[kingdice86]

thanks a lot for the info!
how hard is it to get your hands on a mellotron and are the patches any good these days in terms of accurately representing the vintage tones?
it is hard to find in music these days, but there are a few places the mellotron can be heard from radiohead to porcupine tree...good stuff!

[Yoozer]

Originally Posted by kingdice86

thanks a lot for the info!
how hard is it to get your hands on a mellotron

Not, if you're willing to pay a premium. More importantly; it's not worth the hassle for what you get back for it, and a n a l o g u e h a v e n is a better choice.

and are the patches any good these days in terms of accurately representing the vintage tones?

G-Force M-Tron gives you all you want.

[santibanks]

Originally Posted by LNerell

The opening to Watcher of the Skies was mellotron, I believe it was brass and strings with a bit of Hammond organ mixed in. The ProSoloist as mentioned was a preset synth that from my understanding was only used in concert. When in the studio and they needed a synth sound they used an Arp 2600 instead of the ProSoloist. Off the top of my head I think Selling England By The Pound might have been the first album they used a synth, but I am not at the moment 100% sure.

Thats correct. Tony Banks used the Pro soloist from 1973 till 1978 (though he left it at home after the 1977 tour already).

The mellotron was also used till 1978. He took it with him on that tour but ditched it after that, replacing it with the Roland VP330 vocoder plus (for the duke, abacab, encore tours and the six of the best show), the emu emulator 1/synclavier (mama tour), emulator 2 (invisible touch tour), emulator 3rack/wavestation (we can;t dance tour) and finally the korg oasys (2007 tour)

The 2600 was used from A trick of the tail onwards but only in the studio (mostly overdubbing work, most of the sounds where still from the pro soloist). The and then there where three album was the first good appearance of the 2600 as one of tony's main lead synthesizers (togheter with the polymoog). He took it on tour that year but ditched that lineup for a prophet 5 and arp quadra. The CS80 was used a lot in the studio, along with the prophet 10 from abacab onwards, which also replaced his hammond organ.

[cornutt]

Originally Posted by Yoozer

G-Force M-Tron gives you all you want.

Yep; it even has a specific bank called "Genesis Split", which combines the two banks that Banks (er, sorry about that) used on the original "Watcher" recording: the strings in the upper two octaves, and the bass accordion in the lower octave. (Unfortunately, the upper span of the strings isn't high enough to play the whole intro; you can't get to the high A that appears in the section after the birdseye.) A Mark II Mellotron was used on the original. In later live performance, Banks played the string part on an M400, while Mike Rutherford covered the bass part on Taurus pedals.

I agree with Yoozer that that Mellotron is a mechanical monstrosity, besides being very expensive. It takes a lot of time and effort to keep a 'Tron going. You have to really be a dedicated collector to own one.

[santibanks]

Originally Posted by cornutt

In later live performance, Banks played the string part on an M400, while Mike Rutherford covered the bass part on Taurus pedals.

Dewtron basspedals actually. Mike didn't had the taurus until A trick of the tail.

Also, its important to put the tron trough a low spinning leslie with slight overdrive and after that some spring reverb. I'm still not sure how banks put it trough. I guess that he did that with a send/return as the mellotron wasn't always going trough the leslie at that time (and he ditched the leslie at the a trick of the tail tour)

[maxbackstrom]

Originally Posted by kingdice86

how hard is it to get your hands on a mellotron and are the patches any good these days in terms of accurately representing the vintage tones?

it is hard to find in music these days, but there are a few places the mellotron can be heard from radiohead to porcupine tree...good stuff!

Please feel free to listen to my Mellotron-whannabe, a thing I call "Mini-magitron".
I think the mellotronsounds in theese soundfonts are pretty nice:

YouTube - Mini-Magitron - is it a Mellotron? Its all there - a cover, played by MaxB.

Here all the different mellotron-whannabe-sounds here:

YouTube - Mini-Magitron - is it a Mellotron?

I like to use the mellotronsounds when I make music:

Mellotroner on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

[electro]

AM Music Technology - VST plugin - Pro SoloVst Home page

[Simonator]

Another virtual option for your consideration:
SampleTron

[Anaon]

Hi!

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I think it'd be great to keep going the discussion about Tony Banks sounds...

There's a list of his equipement through the years here

From Genesis to Revelation (1969)
Piano
Farfisa Organ

Trespass (1970)
Piano
Hammond L-122 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
Hohner Pianet N
Mellotron Mk II - hired from King Crimson

Nursery Cryme (1971)
Piano
Hammond L122 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
Hohner Pianet N
Mellotron Mk II - hired from King Crimson

Foxtrot (1972)
Piano
Hammond L-122 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
Hohner Pianet N
Mellotron Mk II - hired from King Crimson

Selling England By The Pound (1973)
Piano , notably 'Firth of Fifth'
Hammond T-102 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
Hohner Pianet N
Mellotron M400 - with the 3 violins, 8 voice choir and brass tape sets. The flute set is used on "The Battle of Epping Forest"
ARP Pro-Soloist (monophonic preset synthesizer)
RMI Electric piano

The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (1974)
Steinway Piano
Hammond T-102 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
RMI Electric piano
Mellotron M400 - with the 3 violins, 8 voice choir and Brass tape sets
Elka Rhapsody (string synth)
ARP Pro-Soloist

A Trick of the Tail (1976)
Piano
Hammond T-102 tonewheel organ -> Leslie speaker
RMI Electra 368 Electric piano -> Fender Blender fuzz effect and MXR Phase 100 phaser
Mellotron M400 - with the 3 violins, 8 voice choir and Brass tape sets -> Echoplex tape echo and MXR 10 band EQ
ARP Pro -Soloist -> Echoplex tape echo and Leslie Rotating Speaker (on Robbery Assault and Battery)
ARP 2600 (analogue synthesizer) -> Echoplex tape echo

Wind and Wuthering (1977)
Piano
Hammond T-102 tonewheel organ -> MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
RMI Electra 368 Electric piano -> Fender Blender fuzz effect and MXR Phase 100 phaser
Mellotron M400 - with the 3 violins, 8 voice choir and Brass tape sets -> Roland RE-201 space echo and MXR 10 band EQ
ARP Pro-Soloist -> Roland RE-201 space echo
ARP 2600 -> Roland RE-201 space echo
Roland RS-202
Fender Rhodes electric piano
Note: The MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus were used to replace the Leslie speaker. The RS-202 was mainly used to replace the Mellotron, though not used live.

...And Then There Were Three... (1978)
Piano
Hammond T-102 tonewheel organ -> MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
Yamaha CP-70 Electric Grand piano -> Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
Mellotron M400 - with the 3 violins, 8 voice choir and Brass tape sets-> Roland RE-201 space echo and MXR 10 band graphic EQ
ARP Pro-Soloist -> Roland RE-201 space echo
ARP 2600 -> Roland RE-201 space echo
Roland RS-202
Moog Polymoog (polyphonic analogue synthesizer) -> MXR Distortion+ and MXR Phase 100

Duke (1980)
Acoustic grand piano (studio only)
Yamaha CP-70 (through Boss CE-1 Chorus)
Yamaha CS80 (through Boss Chorus)
Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 -> MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
ARP Quadra (through MXR Distortion+)
Moog Polymoog (studio only)
Roland VP330 (through MXR 10-band EQ and Boss Chorus)
Hammond T102 organ through MXR Phase 100 Phaser and Boss CE-1 Chorus)
The CS80 was used a lot on the album as well as the CP-70 piano. Tony used the Prophet 5 and Quadra on just a few occasions on the album. But the Quadra especially was used a lot as a polysynth and lead synth on the Duke tour. The Prophet 5 was used more for string like sounds as well as the flutes on Duke's Travels (last bars before Duke's End kicks in) and Cul-De-Sac.

Abacab (1981)
Piano (studio only)
Yamaha CP-70 (through Boss CE-1 Chorus)
Moog Polymoog (studio only)
Yamaha CS80 (studio only) (through Boss CE-1 Chorus and MXR Distortion+)
ARP Quadra (through MXR Distortion+ and Lexicon Digital Delays)
Sequential Circuits Prophet 10 -> MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
Roland VP330+ Vocoder (through MXR 10 band EQ)
NED Synclavier 2
There are rumors that the EDP Wasp was used.

Genesis (1983)
Yamaha CP-70 electric grand piano -> Boss CE-1 Stereo Chorus
ARP Quadra polyphonic analogue synthesizer
Sequential Circuits Prophet-10 polyphonic analogue synthesizer -> MXR Phase 100 phaser and Boss CE-1 stereo chorus
NED Synclavier II digital synthesizer (FM and Additive, no sampling option)
E-mu Emulator early digital sampler
Roland VP-330 Vocoder and string/choir
Some equipment put through MXR and Lexicon digital delays

Invisible Touch (1986)
Yamaha CP-70 electric grand piano (with Kenton MIDI retrofit)
ARP Quadra synthesizer/string machine
Sequential Circuits Prophet-10 synthesizer (with Kenton MIDI retrofit)
NED Synclavier II digital synthesizer (FM and Additive, no sampling option)
E-mu Emulator II digital sampler (with analog SSM filter and VCAs)
Yamaha DX7 digital FM synthesizer
AKAI S900 12-bit Digital Rack sampler
Roland MKS-80 analogue rack synthesizer
Yamaha TX816 digital FM rack synthesizer - 8 DX7s in a rack
Korg DVP voice processor - vocoder
Equipment put through Yamaha REV7 digital reverb and Lexicon digital delays

We Can't Dance (1991)
Korg Wavestation digital vector synthesizer
Roland JD-800 digital synthesizer
Roland Rhodes MK-80 digital piano / mother keyboard
Roland Rhodes VK-1000 digital organ / electric piano
Ensoniq VFX digital synthesizer
Yamaha CP-80 electric grand piano- (88-key version of CP-70)
E-mu Emulator III digital 16 bit sampler
Equipment put through Yamaha SPX1000 and SPX90 effects plus Roland reverb unit
The Roland JD-800 was responsible for the distinctive percussion sounds on the title track.

The Way We Walk (We Can't Dance Tour) (1991–1992)
Korg Wavestation digital vector synthesizer
Roland JD-800 digital synthesizer
Roland Rhodes MK-80 mother keyboard
Ensoniq SD1 digital synthesizer - More reliable sibling of VFX
Sequenced by Alesis MMT-8
Tony used these synths to also control his 2x 20HE rack units with the following gear:

E-Mu Emulator III digital 16 bit sampler in rack form
Kurzweil 1000PX digital piano module
E-Mu Proteus/2 XR sample playback modules (four units with Tony's own samples, one with Proteus presets)
Voce DMI-64 MkII digital organ module (two units)
Yamaha TX7 synth module DX7 in a rack
All of the above are mixed into two Roland M480 mixers and put through Yamaha SPX90 effects and a Roland SDE3000 reverb unit. All midi routings done by two MidiTemp MMP88 patchbays. Audio routings from the mixer through the effect units done with the Yamaha PLS1 line switcher which is also used to extract the Roland JD-800 audio and send it to the main PA desk.

Also used was a MIDI Gate unit (brand unknown) which is used for the song Mama which they performed 5 times in the USA leg of the WCD tour.

Calling All Stations (1997)
Korg Trinity digital workstation synthesizer
Korg Wavestation digital vector synthesizer
Roland JD-800 digital synthesizer
Roland JV-1080 digital rack synthesizer
Yamaha CP-80 electric grand piano

Calling All Stations Tour (1997–1998)
Korg Trinity Plus digital workstation synthesizer
Roland A-90 MIDI mother keyboard
Roland JD-800 digital synthesizer
These are then linked into 2 Opcode Studio 5 LX MIDI processor and 2 custom-made MIDI mixers and used to control these rack units:
Two E-mu Emulator]] 4 digital 16-bit rack samplers
Two Korg Wavestation SR digital rack vector synthesizer
Korg Wavestation A/D digital rack vector synthesizer and vocoder
Korg 01R/W digital rack synthesizer
Roland JV-1080 digital synthesizer
Three E-mu Proteus/2 XR digital sample playback modules
E-mu Proteus/2 XR Orchestral digital sample playback module
E-mu Proteus/1 digital sample playback module
Two E-mu Vintage Keys digital sample playback modules
Yamaha TX7 synth module - Yamaha DX7 in rack
All of the above are mixed into a Mackie LM3204 line mixer then put through Yamaha SPX1000 effects processor (four units) and Roland SRV-2000 effects processor. A Yamaha PLS1 line selector sends this to a Chiddingford Mixer for his Shure SM600 transmitter to his ear monitor.

Turn It On Again Tour (2007–present)
Korg OASYS digital workstation synthesizer
Korg Wavestation digital vector synthesizer (master keyboard only)
Roland A90 (master keyboard only)
E-MU Proteus1 (Customised with samples of Tony's vintage keyboards) - 4 units (only 2 in use)
E-mu E4
Korg Wavestation SR
Roland JD990 - 2 units
Yamaha TX7
Alesis MMT-8 sequencer
2 Mackie LM-3204 rack-mounted mixers (only 1 in use)
Miditemp PMM-88 (Patchbay)
Yamaha SPX-2000 (Effects) - 2 units

Anyone did ever try to reproduce his sound on "The Return Of The Giant Hogweed", the Pianet with fuzz sound?

[santibanks]

Originally Posted by Anaon

Hi!

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I think it'd be great to keep going the discussion about Tony Banks sounds...

There's a list of his equipement through the years here



Anyone did ever try to reproduce his sound on "The Return Of The Giant Hogweed", the Pianet with fuzz sound?

Yes with samples. However, I think that most modern fuzz algorithms (digital effects) don't sound very nice. Somehow, its a bit shrill.

I had much better results creating his RMI sounds.

[Anaon]

Hi!

I bought some RMI samples to try to play with the Carpet Crawlers sound or the lead fuzz sound but the built in fuzz is not very good. I found a free fuzz plugin without many success...

[playstation]

Here's a preset called "Watcher of the half-speed mellotron" from M-Tron pro.

Watcher.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[massimo]

The Manikin Memotron also comes to mind, no (or somebody already mentioned this one in this thread and I missed it...)? From the information one gathers, looks like its creation was a labor of love by a guy that is a genuine Mellotron freak. The sound demos on their site are definitely impressive, they took sounds from different "vintages" of original Mellotron tapes, and there is some uncommon stuff that sounds very interesting to my ears. And I believe there is also that accordion/violins stack.
That said:
1. I have fond memories of the Nursery Crime tour in 1972, I was sitting right behind Banks in this small club in Rome. Most memorable bits: (a) the "Fountain of Salmacis" Hammond intro with the ramping up Mellotron (the one with double-extension keyboard), exactly as in the record; (b) Banks switching something in order to distort the Hohner sound for the Giant
Hogweed intro; (c) Banks switching off and on his Hammond in order to bend the note pitch for "Stagnation" (from Trespass)
2. I remember the Foxtrot tour in 1973, and that "Watcher of the skies" intro was played back by a tape.
3. I always thought those synth sounds (later did I learn it was an Arp) on "Selling England" sounded very cheap. I think I read somewhere that Banks really did not want to jump on the Moog bandwagon, and was a reluctant synth user at the time. I believe it shows.
4. While I like the Mellotron sound in general, I am in no way an expert or purist - I have never had one. Only based on feel, I think the Mellotron samples in the Emulator 3 library, and played through the E3, give a very good impression of the sounds I used to love from some of my favorite records of all time. If I did not have the E3 I would probably buy a Manikin.

best regards
Massimo