Is East West Goliath the best variety sample library?

[rids]

I'm looking to get some sample libraries. I was looking at getting Kirk Hunter's Orchestra library, but was thinking I might enjoy the variety I get from something like Goliath. Are there are any other good libraries like Goliath or that might be better. Kind of looking for a mix of traditional instruments like guitars, strings and bells along with additional exotic hybrid type sounds. Any suggestions?

[Digital Send]

I have the Miroslav Vitous libraries. Link: click me

They are expensive but very good.

My only problem with this library is that there is so many options which takes me ages to find the exact stlye of violin/oboe etc.. that i am after.

I literally mean hundreds upon hundreds!!


cheers
DS

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by rids

I'm looking to get some sample libraries. I was looking at getting Kirk Hunter's Orchestra library, but was thinking I might enjoy the variety I get from something like Goliath. Are there are any other good libraries like Goliath or that might be better. Kind of looking for a mix of traditional instruments like guitars, strings and bells along with additional exotic hybrid type sounds. Any suggestions?

Without any doubt - Yes it is the very best by a Long Stretch !

[tribeofenki]

Other libraries as RA and ORIGIN are in the same bunch of Goliath..

[rids]

Miroslav seems quite nice, but I think I want something to work in EXS24 with Logic. I think I heard the quality is really good in Miroslav compared to Kirk Hunter.

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Without any doubt - Yes it is the very best by a Long Stretch !

Really, by a long stretch? I would've thought there would be something else comparable from another company.

I'm not familiar with and couldn't find/google the RA or Origin libraries.

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by rids

Miroslav seems quite nice, but I think I want something to work in EXS24 with Logic. I think I heard the quality is really good in Miroslav compared to Kirk Hunter.



Really, by a long stretch? I would've thought there would be something else comparable from another company.

I'm not familiar with and couldn't find/google the RA or Origin libraries.

Well if its a big variety of high quality sounds across the spectrum of instruments including a nice selection of classical orchestral too then Goliath is the Daddy. RA is also an east west plug but for more ethnic instruments ( that unless thats you bag you're probably never going to use )

The reason that this is such a good deal is that it combines elements form other best selling East west products including their QLSO, Choirs, Brass, Stormdrum, etc etc - High quality sounds and a superb interface that means you don't need to use your EXS24 as the Goliath interface does its own thing and will work with Logic. Very simple and easy to learn.

Great value too !

[Digital Send]

Originally Posted by rids

Miroslav seems quite nice, but I think I want something to work in EXS24 with Logic. I think I heard the quality is really good in Miroslav compared to Kirk Hunter.

Open up a new EXS24 instrument and on the top right hand corner click 'options'.

There is a very useful conversion function for Akai, SoundFont, SampleCell, DLS & Giga that i found a life saver!!!


If only it did Roland conversions i would have saved about 6 days of my life........

Hope that helps

cheers
DS

[barbital]

Trouble is they're typical sample libraries that recreate articulations using prerecorded samples triggered by keyswitches and such.

They are merely recordings of an instrument, and as such are not the instrument in the human sense. In human sense I mean playability and expressiveness.

I've tried for years to make tracks done with samplelibrary instruments sound halfway realistic and have thus far failed miserably.

You are better off waiting for the next round of instruments which will use either physical models or a hybrid approach (like SampleModelling) or some sort of specific synthesis (WIVI) to recreate the instrument's sound.

About the only use for sample libraries is for percussion instruments. Drums, etc, are great when done with detailed sample-based instruments. But for everything else, my previous paragraph highlights the need for something a little more sophisticated to get anything close to real-sounding.

Sorry to say but sample libraries are fast going the way of the dodo. They are becoming redudant as we speak. There are developers who are working on electric guitar and bass, there are guys working on physically modelled keyboards, acoustic guitars and banjos, and Garritan is supposedly working on orchestral strings which will include the morphing technology used in their solo violin and cello which were amazing instruments in that they overcame the limitations of sampling and allowed the player to recreate a very realistic performance.

With typical sampled instruments you are merely playing back prerecorded performances and are thus stuck with them. At least with drums and percussion they sound realistic enough to pass (even sampled drums have subtle differences to drums recorded in a real room but they do sound good enough to fool 99.9% of listeners), but for everythig else, they fail to convince.

Ben

[rids]

I wonder if Goliath is able to be sold and transferable if I wanted to sell down the line. I really would like a nice sample library like this, but if something else came out, I could see myself wanting to try the new thing.

Originally Posted by barbital

Trouble is they're typical sample libraries that recreate articulations using prerecorded samples triggered by keyswitches and such.

They are merely recordings of an instrument, and as such are not the instrument in the human sense. In human sense I mean playability and expressiveness.

I've tried for years to make tracks done with samplelibrary instruments sound halfway realistic and have thus far failed miserably.

You are better off waiting for the next round of instruments which will use either physical models or a hybrid approach (like SampleModelling) or some sort of specific synthesis (WIVI) to recreate the instrument's sound.

Good points. I would have thought these libraries would have more realistic expression by now. But I would think Goliath would be better than a Rompler like a Korg M3 or Yamaha Motif XS huh? I basically have tons of synths and no bread and butter, so I need something.

When do you think the next round of instruments will be coming?

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by barbital

Trouble is they're typical sample libraries that recreate articulations using prerecorded samples triggered by keyswitches and such.

They are merely recordings of an instrument, and as such are not the instrument in the human sense. In human sense I mean playability and expressiveness.

I've tried for years to make tracks done with samplelibrary instruments sound halfway realistic and have thus far failed miserably.

You are better off waiting for the next round of instruments which will use either physical models or a hybrid approach (like SampleModelling) or some sort of specific synthesis (WIVI) to recreate the instrument's sound.

About the only use for sample libraries is for percussion instruments. Drums, etc, are great when done with detailed sample-based instruments. But for everything else, my previous paragraph highlights the need for something a little more sophisticated to get anything close to real-sounding.

Sorry to say but sample libraries are fast going the way of the dodo. They are becoming redudant as we speak. There are developers who are working on electric guitar and bass, there are guys working on physically modelled keyboards, acoustic guitars and banjos, and Garritan is supposedly working on orchestral strings which will include the morphing technology used in their solo violin and cello which were amazing instruments in that they overcame the limitations of sampling and allowed the player to recreate a very realistic performance.

With typical sampled instruments you are merely playing back prerecorded performances and are thus stuck with them. At least with drums and percussion they sound realistic enough to pass (even sampled drums have subtle differences to drums recorded in a real room but they do sound good enough to fool 99.9% of listeners), but for everythig else, they fail to convince.

Ben

All I can say is that you have either failed to learn how to arrange orchestrally or have not learned how score using these libraries ( nor heard a professional arrangement scored using them )

If I score a line for section violin 1 desks in which I have short staccato notes followed by a fast run of spiccato runs followed by an accented Fp sustain to slow vibrato - I can keyswitch between multiple banks of variations for Each of these articulations and trigger them when I want creating the perfect take. Guess what ... If I hired the live musicians and got them to play the same line the recording would be the same as the bows and expressive content would be the same. ( obviously not identical but similar )

The whole point of having large sample libraries is that they ARE real instruments playing in the styles and articulations that make using them sound real !

[strave]

Goliath is EXTREMELY useful. I have almost every East West library and I still use goliath all the time for the pop brass and storm drone type stuff

[rids]

Is Goliath useable/suitable for orchestral stuff? I'm wondering if I go for it, if I'll want better orch stuff.

[Beermaster]

Rids, you need to decide what it is you actually want.tutt

Your original post stated that you wanted a wide spectrum of sounds that span across many genres of music. If now, you really just want a quality orchestral library then you have many options to choose from ( East West QLSO Gold being a superb starting place )

You're obviously not going to get the absolute complete and best orchestra package included in a product that offers everything else too. But depending on what you aim to use it for you'll have the most essential elements for most types of music.

[sleestack]

What sample library has a choir that sounds like a Tim Burton movie soundtrack? You know those bending boy choir. I've heard Elfman used a real choir but there must be something

[Digital Send]

Originally Posted by sleestack

What sample library has a choir that sounds like a Tim Burton movie soundtrack? You know those bending boy choir. I've heard Elfman used a real choir but there must be something

Spectrasonics is the company for all your needs: Spectrasonics - Libraries


Symphony of Voices will be right up your street.


cheers
DS

[rids]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Rids, you need to decide what it is you actually want.tutt

Your original post stated that you wanted a wide spectrum of sounds that span across many genres of music. If now, you really just want a quality orchestral library then you have many options to choose from ( East West QLSO Gold being a superb starting place )

You're obviously not going to get the absolute complete and best orchestra package included in a product that offers everything else too. But depending on what you aim to use it for you'll have the most essential elements for most types of music.

Yeah, you're right. I thought that's the answer I'd get because it makes sense, but I just wanted to double check. I think I will get Goliath and a Orch. library down the road.

[Entrainer]

Are you looking for authentic emulation or rompler based synthesis? If you are looking to get creative with sampled waveforms and filters, Emu's X3 with the expansions looks cool.

Problem with the EWQL Play libraries is that they aren't easy to edit and layer. I know because I bought them all during the sale last year.

Emu X3 looks cool because all Emu Romplers (sans Morpheus) are available. In addition, you can extract Akai CD-Rom libraries. The Z-Plane filters have always been great.

I agree that physical modeling/ sample modeling will only get better. I've been riding that disappointing ride since Korg Prophecy though, and Mr. Trumpet/Sax aren't as immediately playable as VSL Sax with keyswitches.

Oh yeah... VSL smokes EWQL for certain instruments.

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by Entrainer

Oh yeah... VSL smokes EWQL for certain instruments.

Yeah I agree but It takes a lot of bloody sweat and tears to make VSL sound right acoustically

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Yeah I agree but It takes a lot of bloody sweat and tears to make VSL sound right acoustically

The new libraries have a Play type engine with keyswitches that improve the usability.

[rids]

Originally Posted by Entrainer

Oh yeah... VSL smokes EWQL for certain instruments.

Like which instruments? VSL doesn't offer any variety pack like Goliath right?

I am indeed looking for authentic emulation. I think if I wanted a rompler I'd go with the Motif XS or M3. Isn't that Emu stuff pretty dated? I don't think I'd want old proteus soundsets.

[Beermaster]

Originally Posted by rids

Like which instruments? VSL doesn't offer any variety pack like Goliath right?

I am indeed looking for authentic emulation. I think if I wanted a rompler I'd go with the Motif XS or M3. Isn't that Emu stuff pretty dated? I don't think I'd want old proteus soundsets.

VSL have a couple of options - one was called 'Opus' but there are other newer options too that combine bread and butter sounds from their main library into a compact smaller package.

Bearing in mind VSL is aimed at the hardcore orchestral/straight composer this does mean that you really really REALLY need to have a lot of understanding of orchestration and how these various playing techniques and articulations, what they mean and how to make use of them in an arrangement to make a single line of music played on one instrument sound real. This could be a big a outlay of cash if this level of complexity is not needed nor understood. ( a hard drive full with 300,000 violin section samples when you may only ever use 100 may be a waste of space too )

How deep do you want to go ?

[The MPCist]

For doing simple composing/arranging on a laptop, you could also consider Kontakt. Kontakt also comes with a library including a few simple prests from VSL as well.

[rids]

Well I'm wondering myself how deep I want to go. I don't want to get bogged down with flipping through samples and searching for what violin samples fit together. Although, from reading about VSL Opus, it seems like it has more in the articulation dept., which I like. Though this is my first dip into Orchestration so...

Opus looks like it's just Orch samples. Or maybe I read a bunch of old stuff on the net and I'm missing something? Where do you buy or find a price for Opus? The VSL website makes it confusing and I can't even find Opus on there. Actually one site said you can't buy it anymore. EWQL Gold seems like a pretty good library too, from what I've read on the net. But a lot of stuff I looked up was discussion from 2004/5.

I know I do want a variety of samples (which Goliath seems like the best) and later I'll probably add one of these other Orch. libraries.

To clarify my question if I wasn't clear (or maybe I'm misunderstanding), I was wondering if there is any other libraries like Goliath that has a variety of samples, like bells, guitars, basses, Orch., etc. that covers a broad range?

[Beermaster]

The simple answer as before is: no - nothing compares.

Kontakt3 ships with a pretty big library of bread n butter sounds ( not a patch on the content of Goliath tho )

Logic 8 ships with a big core library - good for a lot of stuff too ( not a patch n Goliath tho except on the loop front )

Another thing to be aware of withe VSL instruments is that each individual instrument needs a separate instance of the VSL Software to make it work and instance eats up a lot of CPU and RAM so if you're running a song with loads of plugs and other sounds VSL is not going to give you much unless you're running it on a separate CPU using the Vienna Ensemble software

Keep it simple and If you're making your first attempts at orchestration then I'd say get Goliath which contains a load of sounds from the main QLSO library as well as all the other stuff you need... then once you're absoultely sure you really need the extra articulations and sounds you can add say QLSO Gold or Platinum to it under the same PLAY engine hood. My guess is that you'll have your hands more than full with the standard Goliath package !

Beer

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

The simple answer as before is: no - nothing compares.

Kontakt3 ships with a pretty big library of bread n butter sounds ( not a patch on the content of Goliath tho )

Logic 8 ships with a big core library - good for a lot of stuff too ( not a patch n Goliath tho except on the loop front )

Another thing to be aware of withe VSL instruments is that each individual instrument needs a separate instance of the VSL Software to make it work and instance eats up a lot of CPU and RAM so if you're running a song with loads of plugs and other sounds VSL is not going to give you much unless you're running it on a separate CPU using the Vienna Ensemble software

Keep it simple and If you're making your first attempts at orchestration then I'd say get Goliath which contains a load of sounds from the main QLSO library as well as all the other stuff you need... then once you're absoultely sure you really need the extra articulations and sounds you can add say QLSO Gold or Platinum to it under the same PLAY engine hood. My guess is that you'll have your hands more than full with the standard Goliath package !

Beer

Yes, I agree. Bang for buck, usability out the box, quality = Goliath


Can't wait until Vista 64 is supported by everyone so we can move beyond this 3gb cap. I do currently have a farm.

[rids]

Originally Posted by Beermaster

Keep it simple and If you're making your first attempts at orchestration then I'd say get Goliath which contains a load of sounds from the main QLSO library as well as all the other stuff you need... then once you're absoultely sure you really need the extra articulations and sounds you can add say QLSO Gold or Platinum to it under the same PLAY engine hood. My guess is that you'll have your hands more than full with the standard Goliath package !

Beer

Good advice! KISS is always the way to go in the beginning or else things can be a turn off. I think I'm going to buy Goliath. Now I just have to figure out how to organize my Apple libraries and Goliath on the hard drive. I have a 1TB drive and was thinking of dumping it all on there, but I wonder with that big of a drive and all those samples if it searching through stuff would be slowed down more than normal from a smaller drive.

Just to be clear on Opus, it's just an Orch library right? And it doesn't look like it's being sold anymore, at least I can't find it anywhere.

One last question. When I do put all these samples on my external drive, would saving my Logic song on the same drive be ok, or would that preset any problems?

[Beermaster]

Okay - here's the low down,

VSL - is an orchestral library - tho it does have guitar.

Opus is discontinued and is now replaced by the Vienna Special Edition - this is a set of different downloads with the basics from each of the different sections of the orchestra ( pulled from the monster full editions ) - so you can download Strings ( standard or extened SE versions - or both ) for about $130 (standard) so round about $600 for the all four sections of the orchestra to form a standard SE set )

A 1Tb drive should not be a problem. All of the component files that make up the Goliath package come in simple blocks that all stay in one place. Using Logic on a separate drive is not a problem as most people do this - I myself do this in both my studios. - So simple so easy to use. No messing, great sounding !

Beer

[rids]

Do you think it would be a problem to store sample libraries and my Logic songs (basically all my Logic files) all on my 1 TB drive?

Thanks for the help and info! I feel a lot more confident about how I will go about this mission.

[Beermaster]

Nope dude, It won't be a problem.

[tribeofenki]

@ Entrainer:

The Z-Plane filters have always been great

I've heard that Z plane hype in the past... could you please explain me?

Thank you, Stefano