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Justynfromnz
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#1
4th April 2009
Old 4th April 2009
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Electronic mastering

Gday. i was just surfing around trying to find out where guys like Todd Terje and aeroplane get their mastering done? Maybe my google skills are rubbish but i couldn't seem to find an answer. Do they do it themselves perhaps? If not, who are some Mastering engineers you could recommend for lush disco type stuff? Thanks Everybody.

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#2
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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mastering is a bunch of guys ruining the artist's original works. don't get your tracks mastered.
#3
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Most electronic music doesn't need to be mastered. Just needs to mixed well and maybe a little EQ and compression on the master channel.
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#4
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Probably mastered at the cutting house most of the time.

For bigger stuff I see a lot of those kinda guys go here...
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#5
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Not sure what kinda crack rock you guys are smoking, but...

Pretty much any genre of music could benefit from a professional master.

Where do you guys come up with these half baked notions?

P.S. Most of what I do is 'electro', so please don't come back at me saying I don't understand the special nuances of electronic music. Thanks.
#6
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttown23 View Post
Not sure what kinda crack rock you guys are smoking, but...

Pretty much any genre of music could benefit from a professional master.
He's right ya know, I've been shocked at some of the "professional mastering" that's come back of mine.
#7
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Use www.discogs.com for this kind of information. For example, it tells me that Ragysh by Todd Terje was mastered by someone called Andreas (Lupo) Lubich, at Dubplates & Mastering.
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#8
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Most electronic music doesn't need to be mastered. Just needs to mixed well and maybe a little EQ and compression on the master channel.
That's true in theory but the ME may/should have better monitoring equipment and more gear than you, my local one has a Neve desk and Pultec eq's and £10,000 a pair Mid-Fields plus engineers on hand. I'd rather that than a copy of Ozone 5 a handfull of SPL/Waves plugs and pair of VXT 6's through Abletons mix bus.
#9
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Nah, I thought I didnt need to get my stuff mastered. While there was nothing really wrong with my own mastered stuff I recently got an album mastered and its a good 15% better and were not talking a placebo here.

The vocals fit better, the instruments seem better placed and it has a sheen on it I coudnt get from my own mastering which was just basically loud and sounded awesome in my studio.

But most of all my mastered album translates well on every system I have played it. My own mastered versions didn't. That wasnt down to the gear the guy was using which is quite basic, its his room. The room is everything. My album is electronic. If your doing the latest Eectro or dub step heavily compressed, sidechained job then go for it your self but even then you would benefit if you found the right mastering guy. But if you have a crap room no matter what you do or what style you play its going to sound crap. IF you use headphones you may think it sounds cool in the clubs but just wait until certain car stereos and other systems which cant take that pumping kik drum. While there are quite a few around here advocate mastering with headphones its crap. Your getting a total false sense of what your hearing and you will notice they all do electronic stuff. Ask them to mix a guitar/indie, or anything outside loud pumping electro house or dub step and I will bet you its a total mess.

My only gripe with my mastering engineer is its not loud enough. An RMS of between 11-13 just wont cut it these days. I notice it instantly next to louder tracks. This has unfortunately forced me to reconsider who to get to master my stuff because he refuses to go louder.
#10
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy View Post
My only gripe with my mastering engineer is its not loud enough. An RMS of between 11-13 just wont cut it these days. I notice it instantly next to louder tracks. This has unfortunately forced me to reconsider who to get to master my stuff because he refuses to go louder.
That's contentious. Taking a loud section of a tune, if it averages above about -8, it's practically impossible through any chain to maintain all the fidelity - no distortion, no lack of punch, etc, etc. Many guys around here who push their tracks harder than that (esp throughout the loud sections) might find me saying that annoying, but listening to any number of extremely loud electronic tracks on soundcloud will reveal this: Just about all of it could probably sound better, with a little less hard limiting/compression - bass is lacking, kick drums are tinny and small, etc, etc.

Sure, the pros and experienced mixers know how to optimise the situation (eg mixing into a limiter, etc) to get an acceptable result inspite of a vanishingly small dynamic range in the loud bits, but the fact remains that however good they can get it, it would be better again if they didn't have to squish it so much.

Now, take that in consideration with this: An extra decibel or so is not going to make you more successful. I can think of a bunch of electronic artists who are doing quite well and whose tracks average less than most electronic producers who put their tunes online. Clearly, they focus on getting it sounding good.
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1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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11-13 is fine fine fine, you do not need, or want to get caught into the idea that you need to compete on loudness, ESPECIALLY with the kind of music you are making. Anything below 10, and the pay off in sound quality isn't worth it imho.

To the OP Drop me a pm if you want, I think my work with Dikso and Wolf Music matches the style you are after pretty well?
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#12
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Umm, did anyone happen to notice the three year gap between the first and last posts of this thread? How does this happen????

Don't think Justyn is going to see your replies.... hasn't been active on GS for a while....
#13
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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haha, no I guess we didn't....In my own defence it was Simonator who asked me to post, and I have man flu.
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#14
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy View Post
My only gripe with my mastering engineer is its not loud enough. An RMS of between 11-13 just wont cut it these days. I notice it instantly next to louder tracks. This has unfortunately forced me to reconsider who to get to master my stuff because he refuses to go louder.
that's a shame man - I bet it sounds awesome though at that level - with a quick turn of the volume knob .....hey presto punchy master

I really wish we could drop the insane levels of today - it's impressive for like 1 minute, then i end up turning it down, or off, which is not the intention of the Artist.

I level match a lot of 80's tracks with modern ones and it really opens your ears/eyes? - the modern one is usually congested and brittle sounding, the older track has punch and excitment and an open sound.
#15
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Umm, did anyone happen to notice the three year gap between the first and last posts of this thread? How does this happen????
Nah I didn't .

Someone bumped it for reasons only they know, then I just assumed it was new. The topic still comes up a lot (here and elsewhere).
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1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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This has to be stupidest revival of a thread ever. Congrats.

Now go self master all your shit with your cracked copies of Ozone

.
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#17
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy View Post
.

My only gripe with my mastering engineer is its not loud enough. An RMS of between 11-13 just wont cut it these days. I notice it instantly next to louder tracks. This has unfortunately forced me to reconsider who to get to master my stuff because he refuses to go louder.
I spose that's why they have level controls on mixers? :P
#18
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
This has to be stupidest revival of a thread ever. Congrats.
.
What's the issue with a thread getting revived? Often people find things by using the search engine. It doesn't matter whether the OP is around, or whether someone has said it all before. When your browsing the archives as a reader it doesn't hurt to have comments 3 years apart. Often someone will come back years later and say something significant. Maybe not, but there is no harm.
#19
1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceacademy View Post
My only gripe with my mastering engineer is its not loud enough. An RMS of between 11-13 just wont cut it these days. I notice it instantly next to louder tracks. This has unfortunately forced me to reconsider who to get to master my stuff because he refuses to go louder.
peak levels are ...?
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1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
That's contentious. Taking a loud section of a tune, if it averages above about -8, it's practically impossible through any chain to maintain all the fidelity - no distortion, no lack of punch, etc, etc. Many guys around here who push their tracks harder than that (esp throughout the loud sections) might find me saying that annoying, but listening to any number of extremely loud electronic tracks on soundcloud will reveal this: Just about all of it could probably sound better, with a little less hard limiting/compression - bass is lacking, kick drums are tinny and small, etc, etc.

Sure, the pros and experienced mixers know how to optimise the situation (eg mixing into a limiter, etc) to get an acceptable result inspite of a vanishingly small dynamic range in the loud bits, but the fact remains that however good they can get it, it would be better again if they didn't have to squish it so much.

Now, take that in consideration with this: An extra decibel or so is not going to make you more successful. I can think of a bunch of electronic artists who are doing quite well and whose tracks average less than most electronic producers who put their tunes online. Clearly, they focus on getting it sounding good.
Not really. Its kind of pop electronic influenced and when I compare with just about any commercial pop tune the difference in volume is especially noticeable. Those pop records seem to be at around -9 -10 and they sound fine to me. Its not just that. The kids who flick through tunes on Beatport will automatically equate louder with better. WHen I compare with some Dub Step and Electro...well, its like half the volume in comparison. They dont sit their adjusting their volume or ever consider raising the volume of the mix when their mixing becasue often they cant as the gains or main outs are hitting 0db anyway (it wasnt always like that). And, when your dj'ing if your master which is at -13rms will not sound louder than the one after it which has been mastered at -9. Start trying to up the gain on the mixer and all you get is distortion. So theres a bit more to it than that. Maybe I should get on the mic and explain to the punters before I play my song that yes its quieter, but trust me its better...Yeah their really going to buy that one
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1st May 2012
Old 1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
peak levels are ...?

I dont know, the average is -13 and I have no doubt there are some peaks which are louder but overall the tracks are quieter. IM not a volume fanatic, I like the sound of what hes done I just wish they were a couple of DB louder so I can compete with the rest of the dirge out there

Regardless though its going out at that level. Im not getting the album remastered.


But what this industry badly needs right now is a standard level
. Something like no louder than -12rms. I doubt it will happen though, especially with all the bedroom plugin warriors. But plugin companies ( The limiter manufactureres) have to take some responsibility as well.
#22
1st May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I spose that's why they have level controls on mixers? :P

ANd again I wish you people who never DJ understand that the mixers are already at maximum 0db. Sometimes the gains are even glued so they cant be moved. You have no room to manoeuvre except with EQ, but you cant get louder with that unless you smash the basss right which will just make the limiter on the system go crazy and destroy the sound. And thats another thing. Just about every club has a limiter on the system, some are set so low its killing the dynamics of the tracks so the DJ tries to up the gain only get distortion. OH, and their not using good limiters. Were talking cheap shite. I had it out with one guy at a club who set the limiter threshold so low (I think -25 rms) the sound was completely lifeless. He said he was sick of blown cabs. Fair enough, but set the bloody amps and mixer correctly and set the limiter at a reasonable level like -5rms so you dont get blown cabs.

He was just out of college what would you expect really..
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