Creating Original Techno sounds is much more about effects than base synth sounds.

[PeteJames]

Firstly feel free to disagree....

With that in mind is in not best to get a cheapist mono with a good basic sound, and then lather your sound with quality effects chains to create original tones? Whilsy subtractive synthesis can get varied results (especially with some of you insane programmers out there) is the key to original sounds effects? In most cases i'm talking about EXTREME EFFECTS here.

Are plugin effect and excellent choice or should I be looking at hardware? If so what kind, are some guitar pedals studio quality, like boss for example? Are racks the way to go. Does it even matter?

Is it possible to get great sounding, original techno effects on a budget? What would you reccomend?

I lke the sherman filterbank but it's steep, electro harmonix memory man & hoax, and love valve distortion (like d16 decimator plugin & psp vintage warmer). Are plugins just as capable,

Is the access virus worth getting for convenience synth and effect combos? Is that why it's so popular?

I could see myself with 10 different pedals chained just playing an oscilator or guitar note or two and tweaking from there. Anyone work in this fx oriented way?

Also with a future retro xs I could feed this effected signal back into the synth. Are there any creative routing effect techniques/advice you could give?

[andrewsc]

Although effects can be very interesting and useful, putting lots of (delay based modulation or overdrive, etc) effects on a timbre can often result in a blurring of the sound in some sense, and a loss of impact and definition accordingly (such as a flanged sound having less impact than unflanged for instance). If the raw timbre is interesting in its own way, which clever synth programming or acoustic recording could provide, it may be less effects reliant and in that way have a clearer, more defined sound to it which may lead to a more intelligible or punchy mix.

[digital 1010]

ill jump in and sort of disagree
Although i think effects go a long way to making mad sounds if you ask me its all about the modulation. Especially when you get into things like the Waldorf Q with its modulation matrix. Modulating amp and filter and pitch will have far more effect on a sound than delays and phasers or reverbs.

Just my 2p and i do love effects too

Ben

[PeteJames]

But i use modulation of filter and amp and don't seem to come up with any original techno sounds. Reason thor has tons of mod possibilities though.

I know most effects are developed around delay, but are there any fx units (buy not build) which are far away from the standard reverb, echo, delay, filter, flanger, decimator?

[lcvl]

FX +1 thumbsup

[PeteJames]

What plugins / hardware fx do you find tends to lead you down more experimental paths?

[Synthnerd]

Volume and pitch are the most powerful effects. Pan is also a great effect. Seriously. Modulate these parameters with skill and watch people go crazy.

[vyedmic]

It is nowadays....Just listen to some good dubstep and you'll hear that awful reverb wash everywhere....shame

On the other note I like spending time with vocoders

[Synthnerd]

Don't get me wrong I love FX and I have a collection of them, but understanding my previous statement was an important realization for me.

As far as using crazy FX on a synth I agree it's all about modulation. Having a synth with tweakable parameters is important to me, more than having FX. YMMV. It's a personal thing.

[vyedmic]

Originally Posted by Synthnerd

Don't get me wrong I love FX and I have a collection of them, but understanding my previous statement was an important realization for me.

As far as using crazy FX on a synth I agree it's all about modulation. Having a synth with tweakable parameters is important to me, more than having FX. YMMV. It's a personal thing.

Vocoder - synthFX ?

[nonstatic]

to be frank, i think you need to spend less time asking questions and more time figuring out what you're doing.

[vyedmic]

Originally Posted by nonstatic

to be frank, i think you need to spend less time asking questions and more time figuring out what you're doing.

Bring it on!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by nonstatic

to be frank, i think you need to spend less time asking questions and more time figuring out what you're doing.

Ha, ha. Agreed.
The basis of great dance music IMO is good basic sounds. Punchy and well produced.
FX can often smear the sounds, as stated earlier.

Many of my favourite tracks are pretty raw and dry.
It's about finding interesting synth and drum tones from the source, not about putting up a bunch of blah sounds quickly and piling the fx on.
You can do a lot on a dance track with a simple delay, and a short reverb.
the rest is down to good basic sounds and thoughtful writing.

[lcvl]

processing. layering. resampling.
then repeat the whole sequence.
that's the key for me (and for many others asell).

I love filtering, mod fx, delays and reverbs (all hw, usually), but anything goes, really.

[STJ]

The value of both hardware and plugin effects will always vary from user to user. Although hardware effects will tend to sound better in general and my come loaded with amazing presets, they usually tend to have some limitations, particularly with I/Os associated with the unit. Software has come a very long way. The quality is extremely impressive when you run a session at 88.2k and above which most users do not take advantage of due to a lack of system resources ect. Furthermore, the ability to automate all the parameters allows for great production value. For example, increasing the level of the reverb over time or varying the delay time from bar to bar ect. All in all, they are both amazing but their true value will depend on the desires and requirements of the specific user.

[PeteJames]

Originally Posted by lcvl

processing. layering. resampling.
then repeat the whole sequence.
that's the key for me (and for many others asell).

I love filtering, mod fx, delays and reverbs (all hw, usually), but anything goes, really.

What's the purpose of resampling? Why repeat the sequence? I've heard producers do this repetitively and keep 'chopping things up' but why?

I do ask too many questions but it's good to have input from expereinced people, when you are trying to work out what to spend a limited bit of money on.

Yeah, plugin's are certainly more workflow friendly with in/out limitations. You'd think a piece of hardware would be more beastly but maybe it's all a cosmetic illusion.

What do the prodigy use to produce these days? They are FKin raw, heavy and sick!

[digital 1010]

Originally Posted by PeteJames

What's the purpose of resampling? Why repeat the sequence? I've heard producers do this repetitively and keep 'chopping things up' but why?

I do ask too many questions but it's good to have input from expereinced people, when you are trying to work out what to spend a limited bit of money on.

Yeah, plugin's are certainly more workflow friendly with in/out limitations. You'd think a piece of hardware would be more beastly but maybe it's all a cosmetic illusion.

What do the prodigy use to produce these days? They are FKin raw, heavy and sick!

They use a hit making sick sounding special synth only 1 ever made called a Liam Howlett!

[msl]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Ha, ha. Agreed.
The basis of great dance music IMO is good basic sounds. Punchy and well produced.
FX can often smear the sounds, as stated earlier.

Many of my favourite tracks are pretty raw and dry.
It's about finding interesting synth and drum tones from the source, not about putting up a bunch of blah sounds quickly and piling the fx on.
You can do a lot on a dance track with a simple delay, and a short reverb.
the rest is down to good basic sounds and thoughtful writing.

+1
mind you a bit of sugarbytes effectrix goes a long way.

[d1rtynyc]

Good thread topic.

Originally Posted by digital 1010

if you ask me its all about the modulation.

I agree. The sounds that I really admire in techno all have really slick modulation.
The effects are important, but the source tones are the meat of sound IMO.

[aeonsound]

it also really depends on what music you are making.

if it's hypnotic minimal tech which relies on heavy saturated percussive loops then your FX usage might be quite different from an instrument-laden psychill track.

some genres are pretty much based around extraordinary use and abuse of effects. there are times when an analogue mono is all you need, and there are times when you might have applied 20 different types of FX processing to a sample, not to fix it or clean it or restore it, but to bend it to your creative will.

is it important to start with as good an original source as possible? of course... but this doesn't mean you can't get useful sounds through the creative application of extreme FX processing, no matter what the source...

one track i'm working on now has a science podcast vocal sample run through the following:

Bitter:sweet (transients) > Livecut (audio mangling) > Filterscape (er, filtering) > Ricochet (delay) > Corkscrew (pitch) > EQ > Comp > Verb

the result was then rendered, deployed in the track, then a copy was reversed, and run through another instance of reverb; another was pitched down into a pad sound and run through reverb again, etc. etc... often one small sample will provide an awful lot of the finished track.

the appeal of resampling (or rendering / bouncing) for me lies in flexibility and further manipulation. of course offline processing makes this a lot easier...

the attraction of the Virus? crisp digital sounds, audio-over-USB, Total Integration, monstrous multitimbrality (including FX-per-part)...

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by digital 1010

They use a hit making sick sounding special synth only 1 ever made called a Liam Howlett!

lol

In my opinion and music FX for synth sounds dont count for much. Maybe some good drive and the occasional chorus or modulation (phase/flange)...reverb and delay are mainly a mix decision for me.

Good post from Aeon reminds me that I do go overboard on FX for vocals sometimes. But not so much for synths.

Crazy synth sounds are made from carefully made modulation routings...hence the more modulation routings available the more potential for sound design...

[digital 1010]

Did we mention overdrive/distortion yet ? A touch of that goes a long way

Ben

[grantlandau]

it's all in the sample set.

[andrewsc]

what do you mean by it all being in the sample set? sounds kind of vague.

[PeteJames]

Originally Posted by digital 1010

Did we mention overdrive/distortion yet ? A touch of that goes a long way

Ben

I ****ing love distortion

[Reptil]

emm
I'm patching effects into my modular all the time. (before the filter for example)

whatever works thumbsup

[PeteJames]

Originally Posted by Reptil

emm
I'm patching effects into my modular all the time. (before the filter for example)

whatever works thumbsup

Cool what do you use? You could put quite a unique twist on things that way, that's the kind of approach I was thinking would be cool.

[Reptil]

a little reverb on a raw oscillator

some delay on a gate signal

stuff like that

A-187-1
Z5000: Voltage Controlled Digital Signal Processor

[Entrainer]

This may be a little odd, but I'll answer in the way I think about writing music.

Everything is an effect.

I know what you speak of, and when I started making music many years ago, fx processing was the most immediate, instant gratification, rewarding experience. At that time, I had little knowledge of music theory, or little knowledge in general. But I could play a single note a couple of places in a sequencer, throw a 4 on the floor behind it, and bury it in effects and say "holy shit!".

I learned a hell of a lot about fx and synthesis over those first 4 or 5 years. A good mentor of mine was speaking about music theory, and said "it's just another effect". It took a while for that to set in with me, but I get it now. In fact, after writing a couple hundred songs, releasing 30 some 12", and working my way thru 40-50 synths, and countless effects, I think of everything as an effect.

Every oscilator, sample, modulation, fx, note, chord, bridge, breakdown, eq, etc...
changes the soundscape, the space. When people ask what instrument I play, I tell them "The Speaker".

Sometimes an original sound is the whole, sometimes it's one instrument. Literally a representation of every form of synthesis exists on the computer today. There's arguments about quality, but you can learn it all and step up to higher levels.

I'm trying not to set any rules, as there truly are none, but stacking 10 fx more often than not, sounds like a mess... (unless you really know what you are doing).

Regarding what to mess around with... I say YES. Try it all. No rules. All analog is an effect. Hybrid is an effect. All digital is an effect. Everything is unique and creates an impact, has a texture. But try it one or 2 at a time, until you really master them. Otherwise you scratch the surface and can get overwhelmed.

Cool cheap things are Reaktor, Guitar Pedals, Cheap Lexicon Rack Effects (MPX-1 + Voretex), Sound Toys, U-He, Nebula, Camel Audio Alchemy, Omnisphere.

This stuff with your Future Retro would be pretty cool.

[Entrainer]

Just wanted to add that the first thing I do with any synth, be it ROMpler, VA, or Plug-in, is disable the fx on the preset. It's generally shit. Sculpt sound with them off, route to other FX to vary texture.