Moog Phatty: Build Quality Sub-Par?

[sleepwalker]

I've owned the Phatty and Voyager. The Voyager is heavy in every way and is the exact opposite of cheap in every way. The phatty didn't feel cheap when I had it. The keys were VERY light, but it was more of an action thing than the build quality. I liked it, but sold it when a voyager showed up for $1800.

That said, it could be the fact that it's a GC demo. My Phatty was near new when I had it and it felt nice. I could imagine it starting to feel "loose" if it was used a ton. I can't imagine what you'd have to do to a voyager to make it "loose"

Originally Posted by Kamurah

I apologize in advance if this is offensive to anyone.....BUT....

I was in GC a few days ago...had never played a Phatty before so I decided to give it a whirl.

Holy Mother does this thing FEEL CHEAP! I have had many synths over the years, everything from a JP6, to old Ensoniqs, to Korgs, to newer boards like the Virus and Novation stuff.

This is absolutely the cheapest build quality I have ever felt on a "professional" synth!

The pots wobble and are inaccurate. The mod and pitch wheels are shaky and feel like they are going to fall out (I do like the rubber coating though)

And the keybed feels spongy and ....well....just craptastic.

I was so disappointed....I cannot imagine anyone feeling comfortable using this thing in a live environment....I would be terrified either I would break it or it would just break on its own.

Am I the only one that feels this way?

I haven't had a chance to try a Voyager....are they built as shoddy as the Phatty? Please say no. Please let me know that 3K buys you a solid synth?

Cheers

[KTAISA]

i think the key word there was Guitar Center.
you got 100's of kids spinning knobs and banging keys all day

i have a phatty and voyager and while i would admit that the voyager feels alot nicer in terms of build qaulity i would have to say i disagree with it being a cheap peice of shit.

was it the limited edition bog moog series or the stage series?

i have the bob series, maybe there is a difference i dont know?

[triez]

I have had all of the newer U.S synths in for repair over the last few years, the Voyagers are solid units, the Little Phatty is more fragile but still better than a lot of new gear.

The Prophet 08, Evolver are to me studio instruments only, I would never take them live. Unfortunately the modern manufacturing method of mounting tiny pots onto a PCB with no strain relief that some machines use is a double whammy - the pots have a tiny footprint and are mechanically weak, and they are not bolted to the top panel, and so will snap off if bumped. To put them in a foam lined road case, the foam would have to be cut so that the top panel was supported on either side so that the knobs could never contact the foam.

The keyboard on the Phatty is very light, but no lighter than, say a Korg Triton LE. If you are used to old synths that had big pots bolted to the front panel, and metal and plastic keys, then the new machines will feel very fragile to you.

[Kamurah]

It seems perfectly reasonable that this was just a GC trashed demo unit....which is why I was asking the question.

It was a stage edition...not the signature.


BTW the pitch and mod wheels actually wobbled from SIDE TO SIDE....does that sound normal to you guys? It was as if someone had broken both of them loose from whatever was holding them so they just flopped inside the chassis.

Cosmetically, the unit looked in good condition. No scratches, dings or anything else. The knobs had ZERO resistance to them. ALL the knobs. This is what made me think it must be the general build quality. Why would anybody be tweaking the Volume knob repeatedly LOL?

For reference:

Right beside it was a MicroKorg (that looked and felt beat to sh!t), and a SH-201 (that looked super cheap but actually felt MUCH better all around than the moog).

The Virus TI that was there looked horrible (big scratches and a piece of wood missing from the side) but the keybed, knobs, and switches felt first rate.

Good to hear the Voyager is built solid!

[analogbass]

You're kidding, right? Why wouldn't hundreds of kids over months and years abuse the volume knob lol The wheels wobble from side to side and you think they made it that way ROFL

They're well-made. The rack of the Voyager and eventually the LP i'll prefer, because racks by their simpler nature and design get abused even less.

[whinylittlerunt]

I had a Phatty, and I agree the keyboard sucked, but the rest of it seemed pretty solid. I bought mine as a GC demo also though... But I have heard complaints about the keys before so I'm guessing they used a cheaper keybed to lower costs at best.

[Mortal Engines]

I played around with the limited run, Signature edition of the Little Phatty in a local GC over a year ago. I went back some time later and the Stage edition was on display. If i remember correctly, it was 100 dollers cheaper, and while it definitely had a kind of "toy" keyboard feel to it, it sure sounded good. It was in fine shape too, I have been back since and I haven't noticed any real deterioration in the condition either. I am surprised that the GC would leave a model out there in the kind of condition as they sure as hell aren't gonna sell many Phattys that way.

Then again, call it a hunch but, I don't think that the GC really stocks too many Phattys to begin with, as I don't ever see much of a price reduction on those, or the Access Virus, or any of their other premium keyboards. My understanding is that they don't make very much money on those as it is. Of course, that is why I should probably be looking for a keyboard some place other than a retail outlet that makes its bread and butter from selling a ton of guitars and amps......Hmmmm....where is the nearest "Keyboard Center" outlet? I can't find one in the Yellow Pages.....Damn!

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[Stiff]

Originally Posted by Kamurah

I haven't had a chance to try a Voyager....are they built as shoddy as the Phatty? Please say no. Please let me know that 3K buys you a solid synth?

I haven't tried the LP, but the Voyager is very well built. I think it weighs about twice as much as the LP...

[shaft9000]

my TE is very solid. Two years of daily use and the keyboard still plays like new.
I'll probably NEVER sell the little ****er...

[kodomo]

it is definetly the gc s unit
knobs do not wobble on the unit
mod and pitch wheels are really solid too
the pots or wheels do not move shakily even when I push them to do (I did try just now)

[modistylee]

I've had a LP Stage since the summer of '07.

First thing to mention is that these keyboards are assembled in the good old US of A.
So I think that says something not only about the build quality, but also how easy it is to send them in for repairs and deal with customer service, which is excellent.
There's also something that makes me feel good about buying American made products in this day and age and economic climate.
This obviously doesn't apply to you Europeans and others, but I'm sure you could relate to something similar.

I've never had any issues with shaky pitch wheel or loose encoders and I actually really like the keyboard action from a players perspective.
The only issues I've had are that sometimes the buttons can get a little sticky and it takes two or more pushes to change the selection,
especially on the filter section which I seem to use the most. Also, since the rotary encoders have hard start/stop points,
I could see that if you slammed them too hard over long period of time they might start to get damaged.

Finally, there's the noise issue with the top octave on some patches, that was fixed on the LP MkII,
I don't think its a big deal in regards to a musical context and I will probably get it fixed on mine eventually,
but if that's an issue for you, you should probably go for the MkII version.

Moog themselves have said that the LP does not have the same build quality as the Voyager, and you can feel the difference when using it.
But I think that's fine considering the differential in price vs. functionality.

I've always sort of considered the LP to be the modern equivalent to the Source with some extra features, and those have held up fairly well over the years.
I think its unfair to compare these boards to VAs like the SH201, virus etc.
considering the difference in sound, components and design that go into making a truly analog synth.
There's a reason all of the big manufactures do not make analog gear any more, as its all about profit margins for them.

[Tibbon]

I always figure that what's on the GC floor is actually a pretty good test of what it would be like if you bought it 'new' but played it for 10 years. Generally something like a LP is going to have a lot of people screwing around on it and abusing it. And when I say abusing you should see stuff people do to those things on the sales floor. Everything from people's kids screwing with them to god knows what.

The LP isn't poorly built. It isn't built the same as the Voyager for sure. The pots are different, as are most of the physical parts. The keyboard isn't bad on it at all, and I actually like it. The voyager's keyboard however is a dream for me... just right.

The LP they did build to a cost spec, whereas the Voyager was basically built without specific cost in mind. I remember asking Amos one say, "What would you change on the Voyager to make it better it money was zero object" and he had almost nothing that he could change. The LP isn't bad at all, but people wanted a "cheaper Voyager" so that's what they got. Corners had to be cut, but by all means its a reliable and stable beast.

I'd personally like to get a LP so I could have something that I can abuse a bit more carefree onstage, whereas my Voyager Signature wants to stay at home and avoid flying beer bottles and being knocked over by a feisty guitarist (or me) onstage.

And seriously, even if something breaks, these things are all repairable. The parts are available, and Moog is very helpful. I saw a LP on CL the other day for $700 and if I wasn't just laid off my dayjob I'd have it sitting right here at the momnent

[F5D]

As many have pointed out, it must have been because it was a demo unit. I noticed the same at a local musicstore when I demoed a Prophet 08 keyboard. The unit that I finally purchased home is much tighter regarding the knobs. However, the Moog LP Stage and Voyager that I tried at the same store, both had very tight knobs, not wobbling in any way alghough they had been demo units for some time.

[cosmos]

i had a voygaer once and tested my freind LP last night, the voyager is by far better build from LP, the one i tested was solid as well, the knobs felt little loose and not always followed fast tweeking with the lights on the front panel, the kays were fine, they dident felt cheap or anything but nothing like the voyager build or feel.
overall The LP is a GREAT little synth, sounds beautifull, me very like.

[The Architecture]

remember too, the LP is 3 times cheaper in price than the Moog Voyager. It should feel "cheaper" than a voyager considering that factor. I have a dot com and other synths, and I find the knobs to be just fine.

[alexp]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

remember too, the LP is 3 times cheaper in price than the Moog Voyager. It should feel "cheaper" than a voyager considering that factor. I have a dot com and other synths, and I find the knobs to be just fine.

Considering how cheap feeling the Voyager is, it must be bad.


alexP

[The Architecture]

The cheapest ones I have are the ones on my AX-60, nothing feels cheap after working with that machine for soo many years.

eh, im plotting to buy a macbeth relatively soon, just as soon as I find a US distributor that carries them. then I'll know what expensive feels and looks like.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

The cheapest ones I have are the ones on my AX-60, nothing feels cheap after working with that machine for soo many years.

eh, im plotting to buy a macbeth relatively soon, just as soon as I find a US distributor that carries them. then I'll know what expensive feels and looks like.

mmm what happened to the other plan?
on my "to get in 2009" list is still a jack modular, Oakley/Motm/Moon sort of thingy. what has got you gravitating towards the macbeth?
(I know it DOES sound very nice, but so does the other stuff)
maybe you know something I don't

[Tibbon]

Have you guys ever played an ARP 2600 (or ARP 2500)? They are GREAT synths, but I don't really consider them roadworthy. Just the designs overall don't seem to be made for longterm use. Even the ARP Odyssey felt filmsy with the long taper faders instead of pots. Yet, these are all considered amazing and great synths.

The LP is a nice beast for the road (or the studio). I feel pretty confident that it could survive quite a bit of damage before it stopped working.

[Mike6581]

The one I demoed in PMT (the shop formally known as Sound Control) seemed perfectly solid to me. It'd take some going to do some serious harm to that little thing. Shame I wasn't too keen on the sound, but that's a whole different argument.

The Prophet 08 isn't as bad as it's made out to be if you ask me. It's a fairly sturdy frame and the knobs don't seem that fragile to me. I can see that they'd probably not survive being knocked off a stand head first, but I've never done anything like that with a synth yet so I should be alright! Famous last words!

[sleepwalker]

That's got to be a joke. I sold my voyager because of space constraints, but it felt like an heirloom. Something that can't be said for my 2600, Pro5, MPG-80, and Jupiter6.

Originally Posted by alexp

Considering how cheap feeling the Voyager is, it must be bad.


alexP

[The Architecture]

the ARP synths I will admit, look hideously cheap! I mean, if you want something that looks cheap but sounds good, ARP is your pick. Looking at the odyssey, id be afraid to breathe on those sliders the wrong way, they look super fragile.

word of mouth gots me gravitating towards a macbeth, everyone seems to be jizzing their pants over them. I got a dot com, and it does sound good, i just wonder how much better the macbeth sounds.

[sleepwalker]

Yep. My 2600 feels cheap. I can't even imagine what it would look like after 6mo on the GC showroom. It would make me cry. Really, same goes for the old Roland stuff.

I'm just still confused someone could ever think a Voyager felt cheap. That thing was the most expensive feeling synth I've ever touched. I can understand not liking the sound or design philosophy, but turning those knobs just felt like radio dials on a nuclear sub.

Originally Posted by The Architecture

the ARP synths I will admit, look hideously cheap! I mean, if you want something that looks cheap but sounds good, ARP is your pick. Looking at the odyssey, id be afraid to breathe on those sliders the wrong way, they look super fragile.

word of mouth gots me gravitating towards a macbeth, everyone seems to be jizzing their pants over them. I got a dot com, and it does sound good, i just wonder how much better the macbeth sounds.

[Necron 99]

I myself just recently tested a LP at a local GC and I must say that I was disappointed in the build quality. I own a Voyager and two Moogerfoogers. All of which the build quality is incredible and all have metal pots. The LP I tested was missing a knob and I could clearly see that it was a plastic pot. This is the only Moog product that I have seen that was this cheap build quality wise. Even the Minitaur has metal pots. I understand that things need to be sacrificed to cut costs, but how much money could have possibly been saved in putting plastic pots on this thing. Don't get me wrong, the LP sounded great, but those plastic pots really turned me off from ever purchasing one.