electronic music live - how do you do it?

[matucha]

After a long time (pushed by the friends) I decided to to make some gigs with my "electronic" project. My music is influenced mostly by jazz, but just influenced... and it is somewhere between lounge music and breakbeat. Well, electronic music has one problem when played live, it is mostly a long studio work with lots of finetuning etc. So major part has to go from the record. But I don't like only to push play on MD or CD player and try to look busy, so I bought "cheap" 8-track HDD recorder (fostex D108) to be able to send things throug effects or to manipulate recored things live as well as real musicians. Drums, bass, voice, roland sh9 for leads&fx and trumpet. If it will work I'll try to use Rhodes Piano, but it is kind of heavy ;-(.

What would be a good small mixer for this (max 16channels)? Thinking about mackie or soundcraft sx (or Mseries). Is there any no-nos (I'm very naive, because I do it for the first time at this scale&level)?
How you do it? Heard or seen interesting concept that can help or inspire me?

Thanks and if you're curious about the music try this:

http://zka4t.intellygent.com/polytea_radioedit.mp3

http://zka4t.intellygent.com/eyesawr..._radioedit.mp3

http://www.intellygent.com/mp3/zka4t..._Slowflake.mp3

[doug_hti]

you should probably do stems of your "track" music so that you can mix in and out live and recorded parts. This is what even larger production tours do (that play with tracks), but to a larger extent.
I use a roland vs-1880 for playback, because it has 8 direct outs and is rock stable compared to da88s or adats and if the drummer is runnin the songs, it can sit down on a stand at eye level and has song cue buttons.

I've also used a motu 828 with a titanium. Using a computer and device like this is ideal because you can have more than 8tracks and do different automation from show to show, so you can choose what "live" parts you want to play and then route that through the available 8 outs.

The downside of this, is that it's a bit more fragile and less dependable and you have to have a computer, a external hard drive, and the interface.

Now as far as mixers. Are you going to actually control the parts yourself from the stage? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with your Fostex unit, i tried to look it up, but couldn't find it. What about a digital multirack unit that you can control a lot of your parts live? I'll sell you my Roland vs-1880, as I'm off of tours for at least 6 months. But really, something like that would be ideal that is a mixer and has the playback HD in the same unit.

If you need a small analogue mixer though, don't get one of the Mackies or other brands that have built in EQ and EFX...if you go mackie, get a 1402 or 1604. Or get a soundcraft or Allen and Heath board. The small faders on these boards though are pretty rough to use live.

[matucha]

the fostex unit is just 3 spaces high rack unit (8i/o), with 10GB HDD and 20bit converters (and adat and scsi), no mixer included, I went this way because all (inexpensive) mixer type hdd recorders lack of outputs. I went this way because of fragility of computer and it is just one purpouse machine with no studio use... and it is cheaper too.

you're right, the 65mm faders are pretty small... so mackie is out I think... however I'm not going to mix it, It has to be working when the faders are in line. I'll send everything as direct outs to the engineer... On the other hand want to effect the live instruments and vocal, so it will go to my desk and then effected to the engineers desk where he will try to keep/make it nicely sitting in the mix ;-).

[Sofine]

Hey Matucha,

Listened to your music on myspace. Lovely stuff, very nice. As it happens, I am looking to get a live set together for April of next year (things move slowly - my wife and I just had twins recently!!!) plus it is only a hobby.

But to start with, I have sold a few items in my studio in order to fund some items that I feel I need more for a live performance. I bought a MPC4000 as a live sequencer - nice for realtime manipulation and audio playback to a certain extent. Also got a radkial spectralis, nice live oriented groovebox. I have a spirit folio SX mixer for the above mentioned, where I will add in my synths, live guitar (with adrenalinn 2), live sax and vocals. I will plus a soon-to-be purchased fx unit into the send/return of the mixer too. The mpc has 4 midi outs for sync.

I know this post is quite old, have you had any developments since then. I too am new to this, so maybe we can share dangers and successes!!!

Good luck
Simon
Dublin

[MonoBrow]

How we did it: Basicaly we took our whole studio setup with us,we creating tracks on a st1040 then recording each miditrack channel by channel to our multiplayer(a 64 track hardware sequencer) and wired this unit to our synths and samplers aka.jp8000 waldorf pulse microwave and the a 3000/5000 samplers + a g4 with creamware scope in it.We can mute key tracks in the sequencer on the fly and play em on the synths or we can just let em play by midi,we had a ramsa 16 ch mixer and sended a stereo sum to the house intern mixerguy who did the compression limiting with our outboard stuff.We had lots of knobs and keys to play with.Now we want to lower the whole thing to a laptop with reaktor/maxmsp ableton, jp8000 and a midi controller keyboard.

[matucha]

I'm glad to hear that you like my music ;-)

About the live thing... I gave up, because I found out that I'm more studio geek than stage showman ;-). I didn't like so many things about it that I quit.

Your setup looks nice... but I realized that laptop suits my needs more than anything else + some kaoss pad and small mix.


Good luck.

[Sofine]

Hi Matous,

Well, I've had experience playing live music before in bands (as a guitarist in a pop-indie band and drummer in a rock band) but its always a bit of a pain trying to coordinate 4/5 more people. So, I am kind of looking forward to playing on my own, maybe with a singer too (as I cant sing for sure). I may very well find out that I prefer the studio (which is hard to beat!) in due course, we shall see.

My solo music to date has been a mix of pop and dance (house) and I have done quite a few remixes for various labels, some of which have done reasonably well in Ireland and the UK.

However, for the last few months I have set my sights on producing (and ultimately playing live) a similar music to you, jazz breaks, lounge / breakbeat - think The Dining Rooms, Thievery Corporation, Parov Stellar, Some of the costes / st. germain type- complilations, De-Phazz, Herbaliser. I have started to get some ideas together. At the moment, I have 4 tracks on myspace, but they would be indicative of the wide range of older stuff Ive been doing to date! It includes house, pop, a flamenci remix and r'n'b! I've even just finsihed 2 folk / country songs for a business contact of mine! Variety is the spice of life.... Have a listen though - http://www.myspace.com/sifimuzic

Where can I buy your EP. I think your music is very good and would like to support a fellow artist!!! On your website it didnt seem to give me an option...

Keep groovin'

Simon


TO FLUXPOD: Thanks for your info matey. That would be way too much hassle for me to bring all that gear to a gig (on my own!!!). I think I would record some audio tracks / loop audio / midi seq smaples from the MPC and overdub live instruments at various parts / mute tracks / mangle shit with FX for the live feel. So far, I envision bringing the following along:

Les Paul Guitar
Adrenalinn 2 FX unit
Shark Bass guitar (maybe)
Sansamp bass DI (maybe too! see above!)
Roland V-Synth (with VC2 card for mad fx - and pretty good VA too)
Radikal Spectralis
MPC4k
Spirit Folio SX
Korg Kaoss 3 (soon to be bought)
Behringer FCB1010 (control adrenalinn and maybe Spectralis)
Korg Kontrol 49 - midi controller
big mates for security!

All this could easily fit in a car.

[MonoBrow]

Hey You are right it is waay to much! We had trouble fitting everything into one car(a kombi tho) now we take a laptop with audiofiles 2 keyboards and maybe 1 sampler with us.A few little gimmicks maybe a guitar sometimes

[Sofine]

Going the Kraftwerk route hey!!!! They played here in Ireland recently, but I was away and missed them :(

[matucha]

Originally Posted by Sofine

However, for the last few months I have set my sights on producing (and ultimately playing live) a similar music to you, jazz breaks, lounge / breakbeat - think The Dining Rooms, Thievery Corporation, Parov Stellar, Some of the costes / st. germain type- complilations, De-Phazz, Herbaliser. I have started to get some ideas together. At the moment, I have 4 tracks on myspace, but they would be indicative of the wide range of older stuff Ive been doing to date! It includes house, pop, a flamenci remix and r'n'b! I've even just finsihed 2 folk / country songs for a business contact of mine! Variety is the spice of life.... Have a listen though - http://www.myspace.com/sifimuzic

;-) it has a lot of '90 sound to it... it is too pop(ey) to my taste, but it sounds good ;-)

Originally Posted by Sofine

Where can I buy your EP. I think your music is very good and would like to support a fellow artist!!! On your website it didnt seem to give me an option...

This is nice of you, but I don't think it is possible, because the label that released my CD wasn't able to make it in any wold distribution. So everytime someone wanted to buy my CD, I've sent one for free (because money transfer fees would be greater than actual price of the cd and there were no other means of payment at that times). And now I'm out of cds ;-).

[Reptil]

cool stuff! I dig your music.

I use a mackie vlz 1404, in a nice case.
the case is pretty important. IMO

DON'T get a behhringger! They tend to crap out on you during the worst moment.

[FilmDingo]

strange but true - I have had more mackies die on me than behringer...but I would still say get a mackie because they sound better and are stronger for road use.

I had an Allen and Heath Mix Wizard that was the best sounding console I have ever owned - but very heavy.

I done shows with a whole PA and band, but I had more fun with a simple setup :CD player, Roland XP30 and Boss GT3 for FX and vocals. All into a $50 Behringer mixer (whatever the little one was)

- I got to focus on just playing, and frankly it sounded better.

I try and play with a DJ scratching and we still fit on a 6in2out mixer.

I have not played live in a couple of years, but I just bought a laptop to go back out.

New rig = Laptop -> Saffire -> 8 out to mixer + USB keyboard + microphone into Saffire

I would like to get a Kaoss next and use it as assignable fx on the mixer.

[gsilbers]

PRESS PLAY ON ITUNES!

[cdog]

Ableton Live
Motu Traveler
Onyx 1202

[Meriphew]

If you're using laptops, what software programs are you using? I'm prepping my live show, and I'm using (all hrdwr) 3 drum machines, 3 synths, a hrdwr sequencer (all of this in a 27 space anvil shockmount rack - huge), plus guitars/amps/pedals. I'm wanting to simplify as much as possible, but still keep the live feel. I also struggle with the idea of using pre-recorded tracks (even though that's essentially what I'm doing when using my hrdwr sequencer).

[tombak]

In the old days I would use my Alesis MMT8 midi sequencer and an EMU E64 Sampler plus what ever other gear ie; TR909, TR606, SH101, TB303, Juno 60, rack effects, etc.

I have a gig in Jan that I will be pulling the MMT8 out of retirement.

The UK techno group Orbital were using multiple MMT8 sequencers for their live shows forever. They were doing quite complex sequences on them. I think they would use four of them!

I second Ableton Live, it's an amazing tool.

Though I'm not using it because I feel watching someone performing with a laptop is visually annoying.


Check out this midi eye sore.
Though I prefer the black ones, they're got more funk.

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by initialsmm

Though I'm not using it because I feel watching someone performing with a laptop is visually annoying.

I get a bit hung up on that as well. I use a Yammie Rm1x for sequencing.

[littledoodler]

anyone using looping station to play live with. thinkin' about getting an rc-50 for this.

[Sofine]

Check this out - http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=3266

some of its a bit naff, but gives you ideas of how you might integrate this into your live set......

[Methlab]

im going to have this issue im afraid..im using elctronic drums a lot in my productions and am going to need a guy who can play this stuff live..

[firby]

Get all of your tracks put on dub plates and then spin them. If that is too boring hire some hot chick to dance around half naked.

[Methlab]

I have a cute chic singer..so thats handled. The turntable idea is actually not bad.I love having a real drummer, but this is electronica after all.

[robd]

I like live looping, and I have been waiting on getting a new looper because the rc-50 turned out to be kind of a dissapointment. It has a whole lot of features that I would never use, and is missing a couple of key features that even last generation loopers had that I would never buy a looper without. (namely feedback control and, especially, the ability to emulate a tape looper by slowing something down and simultaeoulsy lowering its pitch proportionally. I can't beleive they spent all theeir time on crappy midi synch features and forgot the basics. If it had those, I would have bought one months ago.)

[Sofine]

Check out the Kaoss pad 3 for looping. It now integrates SD external storage too. I know its not its main strength, but I've seen some YouTube footage and the looping is quite powerful and creative. And of course, its interface is very inspiring.

[mvollrath]

I once saw a guy do a short set that consisted of him pressing play and tweaking knobs while Reason or his hardware sequencer played a song through the PA. And you know, I really didn't mind that he wasn't doing anything musical up there. Maybe it's just me.

[Reptil]

not trying to be a wiseguy here, but, and I failed sometimes too I guess,
the important and cool thing of a live set is IMO that there's some interaction going on
the musician is doing something, not playing a routine, so I think it's necessary to include that in a setup. without it, you can jump around a lot (like moby ) but ah...

of course that is a perfect situation, and sometimes it's a lucky shot everythings working right.

[lowkey]

Originally Posted by mvollrath

I once saw a guy do a short set that consisted of him pressing play and tweaking knobs while Reason or his hardware sequencer played a song through the PA. And you know, I really didn't mind that he wasn't doing anything musical up there. Maybe it's just me.

i agree, its the music that matters to me. if its 100% live and improvised and crap...its still crap!

i'm playing live tomorrow night at a big outdoor festival...www.earthcore.com.au

my setup is:
Me, occasional vocals
Clare, a total babe, doing spoken word/poetry
iBook G4 1.33Ghz running Cubase
Novation Nova Synth for fx, vocoding, synths
Novation X Station for fx, synth, audio interface
Motu Ultralite for mic pre amps
dbx 266xl for mic compressor gates
behringer mixer
apple ipod [if everything crashes as backup]
2 Shure Beta 57 mics for vocals

it all fits in a suitcase with wheels and is easy to travel with.

the set is programmed as an hour long cubase song. because we do vocals in our tracks we cant change the arrangement of the tracks much...the chorus and verse are set in place. i tweak the vocal fx and filters and play synth parts.

it really helps to have an engaging person up front. i can hide behind the technology and make sure she sounds as good as she looks!

[Jay Selway]

Originally Posted by cdog

Ableton Live
Motu Traveler
Onyx 1202

Ratify

I use...

Ableton Live
Moto 828 mk2
Virus B
Midi controller

[jude]

well i'll dig up an old thread then

Emma-Leigh & i use

rm1x, phantom x6, S2000, DM1000 and a lappy (running Live)

the basis of the tracks are run as 5 stereo stems to the DM1000. 4 channels from the phantom, 2 from the S2000 and 2 from the Rm1x. a lot is pre-programed in abelton but using the "sync2" i can improvise a lt with the rm1x.

[cable]

We're talking about doing a show with the current project im working on (industrial/electronic stuff...vdrums + guitarist + vocalist + keyboardist) We're likely going to buy a vsr880 and use it with a roland vm3100 we have sitting around. The idea is to have the backing tracks come out of the vsr880 through the vm3100. we have an alesis 12 channel mixer we're going to use for the vdrums / synths / vocals (submixed into the vm3100.) i hate lugging a lot of keyboards around so im thinking about buying the larger axiom, sampling whatever patches i want to play live and using that in conjunction with kontakt on my thinkpad.

the main thing im worried about now is how to deal with click tracks / in-ear monitoring /etc on the cheap...