who's doing live electronic music WITHOUT computers (on stage)?
#121
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #121
Banned
 

I won't take a laptop on stage just for issues of reliability. I've been to too many shows and watched them fall apart because their laptop crashed.
#122
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #122
Lives for gear
 
OurDarkness's Avatar
 

I wrote a paper on the advantages and disadvantages of the performance of electronic music for a University about 2 years ago.

There are lots of factors that need to be taken into account before blaming someone for using a laptop in a live performance and it's not always about reliability.

Anyway, personally speaking, I think that a live performance where everything is sequenced and the musician reads his email or plays minesweeper is not an honest performance. Of course you might get away with it and the audience that goes to see an EM concert knows what to expect more or less. Problem is that 95% don't have a clue about what instrument makes what sound - hell that even goes without saying in a "rock" band. You can say that's a sick bassline and no-one knows who the bass player is, let alone what everybody is doing on stage.

So, you might tickle a sequencer and the audience doesn't know that you might be controlling 50 parameters at once, you might play a MIDI guitar and the audience hears drums or violins, and of course they will think that the performance is fake. The reason they believe that is that

a.) they fail to make an association between what they hear and what you do
b.) they are mis-informed about the complexitities and nature of EM

So perhaps the single most important factor - from the audience perspective - is: MOVEMENT. As I mentioned, you might be adjusting parameters on a synth, but this is not visible to the audience. Even if it is, no-one knows what you might be controlling and of course no-one gets excited about your micro-movements in direct contrast to a banging drummer...

Damn, does anyone want to read my paper? Because I can go on mentioning problems forever..
#123
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #123
Lives for gear
 
wax808's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I won't take a laptop on stage just for issues of reliability. I've been to too many shows and watched them fall apart because their laptop crashed.

Man that can be painful huh....... it's like watching a really fat person try and get back on their feet after falling on the ice.



I've had a digital turntable fail be at a gig before, that was embarrassing, but at least I had another to back it up.
#124
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #124
Lives for gear
 
chrisrnps's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Damn, does anyone want to read my paper?
Umm...yeah, actually.
#125
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #125
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Does anyone want to read my paper?
YES!!!
#126
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #126
Lives for gear
 
Carey M's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ├╝berschall View Post
Which artists DON'T use computers on stage?
We don't

- CM
#127
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #127
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Damn, does anyone want to read my paper?
+1!

Cheers,
Bert
#128
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #128
Lives for gear
 
Susceptor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Damn, does anyone want to read my paper?
Yes, I would like to, you made me curious.
#129
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #129
Gear Guru
 
Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

Fans just want great music and a great show. If you can provide that with computers go for it.
#130
10th June 2009
Old 10th June 2009
  #130
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
Damn, does anyone want to read my paper? Because I can go on mentioning problems forever..
Me too, please!

Once I finish my current project, I'm going to prepare a live set using only my expanded Nord G2 and Machinedrum. I can probably do 2 or 3 small gigs and see how it comes out.
#131
11th June 2009
Old 11th June 2009
  #131
Banned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey M View Post
We don't

- CM
Damn, dude! Speed metal with synths! I like it!!!
#132
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #132
Gear interested
 

the line drawn in the sand

Between me and my friends who play electronic music, this is the hottest topic of debate!!!!

I use an mpc 1000 with midi connected to 2 synths, and use trackmute mode to make electronic music live. This gives it a more raw style... (not as raw as drunken bastard live drums dilla style) and also lets you use the mpc as what i like to call a "producer-tron 1000".

A lot of friends are using ableton and apcs with soft synths...

Heres the thing... do you want to hide behind a computer?

No... but also yes.

Using the mpc 1000 has its limitations defiantly... one of them is that its a lot easier to make mistakes that drop the beat out completely, **** the midi loop up, accidentally loop samples, even switch sequences on accident! For instance, during my last show I accidentally loaded the folder instead of project file in the middle of a set, literally overloading the memory, and causing me to have to reload... this was 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence, how embarrassing.

But the price you pay is worth the respect of not hiding behind the screen!!!

On the flip side, to get a more computerized technique, one thing that i do is i bounce out 6 tracks at a time into logic, overdub with vocals and layer effects on the vocals... and then bounce them back to the mpc as one shots that i use as overdubs... this lets me get that quality vox sound underneath a live performance.

everyone knows the benefits of using a laptop live, but the real question is... are you man enough to take a chance? are you strong enough to risk it all?

join the battle, we are the minority, we are the last bastion of hope... soon all electronic musicians will have laptops on stage... thanks to girl talk and flying lotus making it acceptable for the masses...

join me, before its too late
#133
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #133
Gear interested
 

oh yeah

#134
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #134
Lives for gear
 
mono-poly's Avatar
 



My live/improve setup no sequencer/conputers involved.
#135
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #135
Gear Head
 



Ceephax Acid Crew. Lots of midi/din sync, onboard sequencers and on the fly mixing. Hope to see him in the U.S. when the tour finally happens.
#136
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #136
Lives for gear
 
The Architecture's Avatar
 

having done live pa twice. The second time I used my 909, x0x, and moog little phatty and an MPC. the other bands who had strictly hardware digital stuff told me they were intimidated by the sound of my setup before they started playing afterwards. I could definitely hear the difference compared to everyone elses stuff.

Thats when i became an analog nut.

besides, I still havent heard many good sounding laptop setups. Id be pissed to pay big bucks to see a guy on a laptop. at least it looks like people are doing something when they got knobs in front of them.
#137
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #137
Gear interested
 

there are def good laptop setups out there.... but i mean my setup doesnt even have the best sound, its just a 10-15 set up time, and its efficient... however i dont have a mixer yet, and that was a problem when i played a club with no pa....
#138
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #138
Gear maniac
 

"well, I don't follow trends like teh COMPUTER"

You all sound like a bunch of tools. I love hands on analog gear as much as the next slutz, but I think we are missing the point.

As mentioned before, a lot of the newer VA synth stuff is a computer, why should it matter? You are being tools by caring first about the gear and not the music. You can do things with a laptop you CAN NOT with analog gear, and that is the ONLY reason there is a mass migration to ableton. But, the same is true with hardware.

There is more freedom, more power, and yes it is CHEAPER and EASIER having kore running 100's of vst's than lugging your 4 sets of vintage roland keys or a 300 pound mpc to a gig.

If you need your computer to be in a long, red box with white keys on it rather than a small rectangular box with little black keys on it, solely because how it "looks" or that you don't want to "be part of the crowd" then seriously, stop playing, because chances are you aren't doing anything worthwhile.


Recognize the limitations of your equipment, plan for the sound and space and that is all.
#139
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #139
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaksteelmusic View Post
Between me and my friends who play electronic music, this is the hottest topic of debate!!!!

I use an mpc 1000 with midi connected to 2 synths, and use trackmute mode to make electronic music live. This gives it a more raw style... (not as raw as drunken bastard live drums dilla style) and also lets you use the mpc as what i like to call a "producer-tron 1000".

A lot of friends are using ableton and apcs with soft synths...

Heres the thing... do you want to hide behind a computer?

No... but also yes.

Using the mpc 1000 has its limitations defiantly... one of them is that its a lot easier to make mistakes that drop the beat out completely, **** the midi loop up, accidentally loop samples, even switch sequences on accident! For instance, during my last show I accidentally loaded the folder instead of project file in the middle of a set, literally overloading the memory, and causing me to have to reload... this was 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence, how embarrassing.

But the price you pay is worth the respect of not hiding behind the screen!!!

On the flip side, to get a more computerized technique, one thing that i do is i bounce out 6 tracks at a time into logic, overdub with vocals and layer effects on the vocals... and then bounce them back to the mpc as one shots that i use as overdubs... this lets me get that quality vox sound underneath a live performance.

everyone knows the benefits of using a laptop live, but the real question is... are you man enough to take a chance? are you strong enough to risk it all?

join the battle, we are the minority, we are the last bastion of hope... soon all electronic musicians will have laptops on stage... thanks to girl talk and flying lotus making it acceptable for the masses...

join me, before its too late
but just like everything else.. it seams all cosmetic..
the two biggest things i am hearing are
"hiding behind a computer screen"
lol anyone ever hear of midi controllers

and it doesn't look cool to use a computer


haha
this is just silly
their are plenty of boring live hardware, boring live bands, boring live laptops, boring live DJ's
and plenty of exciting ones too
and fakers in all areas
its just cheaper to be a faker laptop performer because you can pirate the software....

all methods of live performance have their benefits and draw backs

to do or not do something based on what other people think it lame
be true to your self and the rest is easy..

i'm in the beginning stages of putting together a live PA battle
at Aces Lounge in Austin Texas on August 8th

i'll come back and post a link when i get started on the web promo
but for now if anyone is interested you can contact me through my bands site
Lux Divon
(all the prizes are probably going to be software things though.. Livid, Ableton, Dubspot, Treakteam Audio, U-he)
#140
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #140
Gear interested
 

cosmeticness ...

yes its true, my argument is purely cosmetic.

i think thats what is important.

for me its not so much about to sound, its about the performance.

a good song can be played with shitty gear and its still a good song,
but when a laptop is used for live purposes, all the things like memory and hard drive get taken for granted. Personally, hardware like the mpc forces me to be intuitive and find ways to use limited memory and hard drive space.
With a computer that also doubles as a dvd player, internet browser, world of warcraft game station, and luxury porn viewing suite, it begins to be less about the computer as an instrument and more about the "software".

This disgusts me because a computer is a powerful tool that can do many things, however hardware albeit less powerful and versatile, shows the dedication of the musician to play electronic music in a more natural way, (ex, no mouse pointer) and to use the machine for its single purpose, to create music.

the bane of electronic music is live performance (when your solo), and unless your maybe playing guitar at the same time (i would like to do this, but when im using the mpc there is too much going on) there is no computer setup ive ever seen that allows you to "groove" and dance while playing it.

dont get me wrong, even the mpc has song mode where you can "cheat" and have it play out, but whats the point of that.

and for full disclosure, my side project will consist of me playing guitar and synth while another uses ableton and the apc lol
#141
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #141
Lives for gear
 
Xero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tridact View Post


Ceephax Acid Crew. Lots of midi/din sync, onboard sequencers and on the fly mixing. Hope to see him in the U.S. when the tour finally happens.
ahh <3 ceephax

but acid is one of those genres where live performance and some 101/202/303/606/707/808/909 is the whole game...
#142
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #142
Lives for gear
 
Acid Hazard's Avatar
 

My set up has changed a bit. I was almost violently anti-laptop. But i now use Ableton to augment my sets, and i couldn't be happier. Since i no longer have an 808/909 or my Machinedrum, i choose to use Ableton as basically my drum machine(s), using Drumazon, Nepheton and Nithonat. It's also my sampler, effects unit, mixer and MIDI sequencer. I still bring out all my hardware units as well. But Ableton is central hub. If it crashes, i'll just use the 707 as the main clock and drum machine. Just won't be as exciting =o]
#143
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #143
Lives for gear
 
Dubtek71's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstatic View Post
shawn rudiman does an amazing live techno set with no computers: shawn rudiman on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

daniel bell did his DBX live tour last year with no computers.

it can be done, i saw myriads of live sets in the early 90's before laptops were powerful enough..
Very true. I do believe Mr.Rudiman is currently building his own hardware sequencer.
I think in the "techno " community there is some black lash towards laptop performances by some people. Others are fully using computers into what they are doing. Personally I like people like monolake with the monodeck II. Guess it depends on the approach.
#144
3rd July 2010
Old 3rd July 2010
  #144
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaksteelmusic View Post
yes its true, my argument is purely cosmetic.

i think thats what is important.

for me its not so much about to sound, its about the performance.

a good song can be played with shitty gear and its still a good song,
but when a laptop is used for live purposes, all the things like memory and hard drive get taken for granted. Personally, hardware like the mpc forces me to be intuitive and find ways to use limited memory and hard drive space.
With a computer that also doubles as a dvd player, internet browser, world of warcraft game station, and luxury porn viewing suite, it begins to be less about the computer as an instrument and more about the "software".

This disgusts me because a computer is a powerful tool that can do many things, however hardware albeit less powerful and versatile, shows the dedication of the musician to play electronic music in a more natural way, (ex, no mouse pointer) and to use the machine for its single purpose, to create music.

the bane of electronic music is live performance (when your solo), and unless your maybe playing guitar at the same time (i would like to do this, but when im using the mpc there is too much going on) there is no computer setup ive ever seen that allows you to "groove" and dance while playing it.

dont get me wrong, even the mpc has song mode where you can "cheat" and have it play out, but whats the point of that.

and for full disclosure, my side project will consist of me playing guitar and synth while another uses ableton and the apc lol
why is a laptop associated with touching it during performance
midi controllers get you away from that
when i perform i do not need to even touch the computer and i barely need to see it..
i play double bass, didgeridoo, sing, loop, trigger, mix, play percussion, synths. edrums and i want to start bringing out my guitar
plus the other member of my band sings, plays keys, recorder, flute, loops, efx, triggers samples....
we are at the wall of what on mac book pro can do and i'm constantly having to stream line... let alone lugging all my gear to a show
(sometimes we do live pa sometimes we do full set with double bass, triton le, drum kat)

its lots of work and planning.. plus we do it all live
i use different styles of play depending on the track...
i'm in improv player from way back so its important to me
to keep that ability.... plus i love what we are doing it so much fun

its silly to think that a laptop means mousing about .. that is very lame to watch... so is watching some one mess with a 909 for an hour too lol
that was my point

i need to go but i'll drop some vids later
#145
4th July 2010
Old 4th July 2010
  #145
Gear interested
 

i think years ago orbital didnt use computers and their gigs were great , they use ableton now i think and they still seem great...



underworld are another example of sounding great "despite" using computers on stage its added to by mixing, dj decks , guitars . they look really busy on stage so i doubt their show would be possible without computers.

simian mobile disco sounded good , i dont recall if its got a computer running but they move around their gear a lot so is not just 2 blokes nodding their heads moving sliders (which reminds me of gigs with autechre , boards of canada , b12 , recoil , ).

recently i thought delphic were good live , no obvious uses of computers but theres a sequencer running in some form.

its more important for me to hear good music , hopefully tweaked/remixed live , i dont have any issues with how its done. i have an interest in what theyre doing and how theyre doing it, but ultimately i'm jumping about .
#146
4th July 2010
Old 4th July 2010
  #146
Lives for gear
 
pinkerton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofi View Post
6) real time timestretch - ability to tempo change things on the night to pull things down or push them up again. can't do that with loops in a sampler.
#147
4th July 2010
Old 4th July 2010
  #147
Gear interested
 

I do 100% hardware liveshows with my band Jesse (www.myspace.com/haistakaa). 4 guys on the stage with lots of synths and 2 mpcs as the main sequencers. I find it a lot more fun to us and also the audience seems to be pleased. I want to have the "danger" of the live situation when I play. We might go anywhere in one second if we want and I don't see that happening in laptop sets. I also don't see the point of doing songs live the exact same way they were on the record. What's the use of live then? Laptops fit to some styles of electronic music, but most of the time I think people could do so much better if they tried.

Some videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9rw7...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CH3uo6ksL4
#148
5th July 2010
Old 5th July 2010
  #148
Gear maniac
 
EMP3's Avatar
 

Plenty of people now with big modular live rigs clocking off a dotcom Q960 or MAQ16.

TD in the mid 70's created electronic music that people can today only aspire to.

No computers.
#149
6th July 2010
Old 6th July 2010
  #149
Gear maniac
 

I think most audiences and fans realize that most electronic music nowadays is essentially "laptop music." Of all the electronic shows I've seen nearly all of them were acts running Macbook Pros. Never once have I heard "this is so lame, they are playing tracks off a laptop." I think what makes a live show boring is if it's obvious they are just pressing play and checking e-mail veruses tweaking stuff with interesting MIDI controllers. My APC40 seems to keep people fairly interested...You can re-arrange tracks and create really interesting live shows with Ableton in ways you couldn't with hardware sequencers back in the day which is another reason why I think people have respect for current live electronic trends. Sure some hardware adds some eye-candy for concertgoers but it's really just another thing to lug around. If you live in places like NYC having a huge setup isn't even an option anymore anyways, so all hail the laptop! Just make sure you have something ready if it freezes. I resample tracks with my kasspad so if something goes wrong I can pull up a sample and tweak that while I secretly want to throw my computer into a brick wall
#150
6th July 2010
Old 6th July 2010
  #150
Lives for gear
 
L-feld's Avatar
 

La Roux

I'm sure everyone on this forum hates them, but La Roux perform everything live. They even have a drummer playing electronic drums.

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