Damn, does anyone want to read my paper? Because I can go on mentioning problems forever..
Me too, please!
Once I finish my current project, I'm going to prepare a live set using only my expanded Nord G2 and Machinedrum. I can probably do 2 or 3 small gigs and see how it comes out.
Between me and my friends who play electronic music, this is the hottest topic of debate!!!!
I use an mpc 1000 with midi connected to 2 synths, and use trackmute mode to make electronic music live. This gives it a more raw style... (not as raw as drunken bastard live drums dilla style) and also lets you use the mpc as what i like to call a "producer-tron 1000".
A lot of friends are using ableton and apcs with soft synths...
Heres the thing... do you want to hide behind a computer?
No... but also yes.
Using the mpc 1000 has its limitations defiantly... one of them is that its a lot easier to make mistakes that drop the beat out completely, **** the midi loop up, accidentally loop samples, even switch sequences on accident! For instance, during my last show I accidentally loaded the folder instead of project file in the middle of a set, literally overloading the memory, and causing me to have to reload... this was 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence, how embarrassing.
But the price you pay is worth the respect of not hiding behind the screen!!!
On the flip side, to get a more computerized technique, one thing that i do is i bounce out 6 tracks at a time into logic, overdub with vocals and layer effects on the vocals... and then bounce them back to the mpc as one shots that i use as overdubs... this lets me get that quality vox sound underneath a live performance.
everyone knows the benefits of using a laptop live, but the real question is... are you man enough to take a chance? are you strong enough to risk it all?
join the battle, we are the minority, we are the last bastion of hope... soon all electronic musicians will have laptops on stage... thanks to girl talk and flying lotus making it acceptable for the masses...
having done live pa twice. The second time I used my 909, x0x, and moog little phatty and an MPC. the other bands who had strictly hardware digital stuff told me they were intimidated by the sound of my setup before they started playing afterwards. I could definitely hear the difference compared to everyone elses stuff.
Thats when i became an analog nut.
besides, I still havent heard many good sounding laptop setups. Id be pissed to pay big bucks to see a guy on a laptop. at least it looks like people are doing something when they got knobs in front of them.
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"if your an engineer you know how important it is to have good looking knobs" Dave Pensado
there are def good laptop setups out there.... but i mean my setup doesnt even have the best sound, its just a 10-15 set up time, and its efficient... however i dont have a mixer yet, and that was a problem when i played a club with no pa....
You all sound like a bunch of tools. I love hands on analog gear as much as the next slutz, but I think we are missing the point.
As mentioned before, a lot of the newer VA synth stuff is a computer, why should it matter? You are being tools by caring first about the gear and not the music. You can do things with a laptop you CAN NOT with analog gear, and that is the ONLY reason there is a mass migration to ableton. But, the same is true with hardware.
There is more freedom, more power, and yes it is CHEAPER and EASIER having kore running 100's of vst's than lugging your 4 sets of vintage roland keys or a 300 pound mpc to a gig.
If you need your computer to be in a long, red box with white keys on it rather than a small rectangular box with little black keys on it, solely because how it "looks" or that you don't want to "be part of the crowd" then seriously, stop playing, because chances are you aren't doing anything worthwhile.
Recognize the limitations of your equipment, plan for the sound and space and that is all.
Between me and my friends who play electronic music, this is the hottest topic of debate!!!!
I use an mpc 1000 with midi connected to 2 synths, and use trackmute mode to make electronic music live. This gives it a more raw style... (not as raw as drunken bastard live drums dilla style) and also lets you use the mpc as what i like to call a "producer-tron 1000".
A lot of friends are using ableton and apcs with soft synths...
Heres the thing... do you want to hide behind a computer?
No... but also yes.
Using the mpc 1000 has its limitations defiantly... one of them is that its a lot easier to make mistakes that drop the beat out completely, **** the midi loop up, accidentally loop samples, even switch sequences on accident! For instance, during my last show I accidentally loaded the folder instead of project file in the middle of a set, literally overloading the memory, and causing me to have to reload... this was 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence, how embarrassing.
But the price you pay is worth the respect of not hiding behind the screen!!!
On the flip side, to get a more computerized technique, one thing that i do is i bounce out 6 tracks at a time into logic, overdub with vocals and layer effects on the vocals... and then bounce them back to the mpc as one shots that i use as overdubs... this lets me get that quality vox sound underneath a live performance.
everyone knows the benefits of using a laptop live, but the real question is... are you man enough to take a chance? are you strong enough to risk it all?
join the battle, we are the minority, we are the last bastion of hope... soon all electronic musicians will have laptops on stage... thanks to girl talk and flying lotus making it acceptable for the masses...
join me, before its too late
but just like everything else.. it seams all cosmetic..
the two biggest things i am hearing are
"hiding behind a computer screen"
lol anyone ever hear of midi controllers
and it doesn't look cool to use a computer
haha
this is just silly
their are plenty of boring live hardware, boring live bands, boring live laptops, boring live DJ's
and plenty of exciting ones too
and fakers in all areas
its just cheaper to be a faker laptop performer because you can pirate the software....
all methods of live performance have their benefits and draw backs
to do or not do something based on what other people think it lame
be true to your self and the rest is easy..
i'm in the beginning stages of putting together a live PA battle
at Aces Lounge in Austin Texas on August 8th
i'll come back and post a link when i get started on the web promo
but for now if anyone is interested you can contact me through my bands site Lux Divon
(all the prizes are probably going to be software things though.. Livid, Ableton, Dubspot, Treakteam Audio, U-he)
for me its not so much about to sound, its about the performance.
a good song can be played with shitty gear and its still a good song,
but when a laptop is used for live purposes, all the things like memory and hard drive get taken for granted. Personally, hardware like the mpc forces me to be intuitive and find ways to use limited memory and hard drive space.
With a computer that also doubles as a dvd player, internet browser, world of warcraft game station, and luxury porn viewing suite, it begins to be less about the computer as an instrument and more about the "software".
This disgusts me because a computer is a powerful tool that can do many things, however hardware albeit less powerful and versatile, shows the dedication of the musician to play electronic music in a more natural way, (ex, no mouse pointer) and to use the machine for its single purpose, to create music.
the bane of electronic music is live performance (when your solo), and unless your maybe playing guitar at the same time (i would like to do this, but when im using the mpc there is too much going on) there is no computer setup ive ever seen that allows you to "groove" and dance while playing it.
dont get me wrong, even the mpc has song mode where you can "cheat" and have it play out, but whats the point of that.
and for full disclosure, my side project will consist of me playing guitar and synth while another uses ableton and the apc lol
My set up has changed a bit. I was almost violently anti-laptop. But i now use Ableton to augment my sets, and i couldn't be happier. Since i no longer have an 808/909 or my Machinedrum, i choose to use Ableton as basically my drum machine(s), using Drumazon, Nepheton and Nithonat. It's also my sampler, effects unit, mixer and MIDI sequencer. I still bring out all my hardware units as well. But Ableton is central hub. If it crashes, i'll just use the 707 as the main clock and drum machine. Just won't be as exciting =o]
__________________ Synths: Octatrack . Analog Four . TT-303 . uWave II . Monotribe . Monotron . Monotron Delay
daniel bell did his DBX live tour last year with no computers.
it can be done, i saw myriads of live sets in the early 90's before laptops were powerful enough..
Very true. I do believe Mr.Rudiman is currently building his own hardware sequencer.
I think in the "techno " community there is some black lash towards laptop performances by some people. Others are fully using computers into what they are doing. Personally I like people like monolake with the monodeck II. Guess it depends on the approach.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smaug
I wasn't going to do this use a quote for your signature thing, but then I saw this...
for me its not so much about to sound, its about the performance.
a good song can be played with shitty gear and its still a good song,
but when a laptop is used for live purposes, all the things like memory and hard drive get taken for granted. Personally, hardware like the mpc forces me to be intuitive and find ways to use limited memory and hard drive space.
With a computer that also doubles as a dvd player, internet browser, world of warcraft game station, and luxury porn viewing suite, it begins to be less about the computer as an instrument and more about the "software".
This disgusts me because a computer is a powerful tool that can do many things, however hardware albeit less powerful and versatile, shows the dedication of the musician to play electronic music in a more natural way, (ex, no mouse pointer) and to use the machine for its single purpose, to create music.
the bane of electronic music is live performance (when your solo), and unless your maybe playing guitar at the same time (i would like to do this, but when im using the mpc there is too much going on) there is no computer setup ive ever seen that allows you to "groove" and dance while playing it.
dont get me wrong, even the mpc has song mode where you can "cheat" and have it play out, but whats the point of that.
and for full disclosure, my side project will consist of me playing guitar and synth while another uses ableton and the apc lol
why is a laptop associated with touching it during performance
midi controllers get you away from that
when i perform i do not need to even touch the computer and i barely need to see it..
i play double bass, didgeridoo, sing, loop, trigger, mix, play percussion, synths. edrums and i want to start bringing out my guitar
plus the other member of my band sings, plays keys, recorder, flute, loops, efx, triggers samples....
we are at the wall of what on mac book pro can do and i'm constantly having to stream line... let alone lugging all my gear to a show
(sometimes we do live pa sometimes we do full set with double bass, triton le, drum kat)
its lots of work and planning.. plus we do it all live
i use different styles of play depending on the track...
i'm in improv player from way back so its important to me
to keep that ability.... plus i love what we are doing it so much fun
its silly to think that a laptop means mousing about .. that is very lame to watch... so is watching some one mess with a 909 for an hour too lol
that was my point
i think years ago orbital didnt use computers and their gigs were great , they use ableton now i think and they still seem great...
underworld are another example of sounding great "despite" using computers on stage its added to by mixing, dj decks , guitars . they look really busy on stage so i doubt their show would be possible without computers.
simian mobile disco sounded good , i dont recall if its got a computer running but they move around their gear a lot so is not just 2 blokes nodding their heads moving sliders (which reminds me of gigs with autechre , boards of canada , b12 , recoil , ).
recently i thought delphic were good live , no obvious uses of computers but theres a sequencer running in some form.
its more important for me to hear good music , hopefully tweaked/remixed live , i dont have any issues with how its done. i have an interest in what theyre doing and how theyre doing it, but ultimately i'm jumping about .
6) real time timestretch - ability to tempo change things on the night to pull things down or push them up again. can't do that with loops in a sampler.
I do 100% hardware liveshows with my band Jesse (www.myspace.com/haistakaa). 4 guys on the stage with lots of synths and 2 mpcs as the main sequencers. I find it a lot more fun to us and also the audience seems to be pleased. I want to have the "danger" of the live situation when I play. We might go anywhere in one second if we want and I don't see that happening in laptop sets. I also don't see the point of doing songs live the exact same way they were on the record. What's the use of live then? Laptops fit to some styles of electronic music, but most of the time I think people could do so much better if they tried.
I think most audiences and fans realize that most electronic music nowadays is essentially "laptop music." Of all the electronic shows I've seen nearly all of them were acts running Macbook Pros. Never once have I heard "this is so lame, they are playing tracks off a laptop." I think what makes a live show boring is if it's obvious they are just pressing play and checking e-mail veruses tweaking stuff with interesting MIDI controllers. My APC40 seems to keep people fairly interested...You can re-arrange tracks and create really interesting live shows with Ableton in ways you couldn't with hardware sequencers back in the day which is another reason why I think people have respect for current live electronic trends. Sure some hardware adds some eye-candy for concertgoers but it's really just another thing to lug around. If you live in places like NYC having a huge setup isn't even an option anymore anyways, so all hail the laptop! Just make sure you have something ready if it freezes. I resample tracks with my kasspad so if something goes wrong I can pull up a sample and tweak that while I secretly want to throw my computer into a brick wall
we play live with a very simple setup. Machinedrum UW´s single outs into a small mackie mixer and effects, like Line 6 GuitarPod, Boss DD-6, Flanger, Chorus ... that´s it.
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