MIDI question

[NWSooner]

Hi everybody. I'm trying to get my home studio set up and I have a MIDI problem that I'm not exactly sure how to solve. When I change programs on an effects processor one of my synths also changes programs.

The MIDI-related part of my setup:

Windows XP SP2
Pro Tools 8 LE, Digidesign 003
MOTU MIDI Express 128 (connected to the computer via USB)
Roland Fantom G6 (connected via USB)
Access Virus TI Desktop (connected via USB)
Line 6 Pod X3 Pro (connected via USB)
TC Electronic Powercore 6000 (connected via USB)
Alesis Andromeda A6 (connected to MOTU in and MOTU out)
Dave Smith Mopho (connected to MOTU in and MOTU out)
Kurzweil Rumour (connected to MOTU in and MOTU out)
Bricasti M7 (connected to MOTU in and MOTU out)
Novation ReMOTE 25SL (connected via USB)

I generally use the 25SL as my controller, though occasionally I will use the Fantom or Andromeda. I'm able to control all of the synths via the 25SL. I have "MIDI Thru" turned on in Pro Tools in order to be able to control the other synths remotely.

Here is my problem: I have the non-USB stuff connected to the MOTU via both the ins and outs in order to control them remotely as well as capture sysex data/program changes (or to use the Andromeda as a controller). However, when I change programs on the Rumour the Mopho also changes programs, so apparently what is happening is that the Rumour is sending a program change via MIDI out to the MOTU which passes it to Pro Tools, and Pro Tools has MIDI thru turned on so it turns around and sends the program change out again via the MOTU, and the Mopho sees this program change and switches patches.

I want all of these devices to transmit program changes (so I can record them in Pro Tools to set up my songs), but I don't want those to be sent to other devices via MIDI thru. When I transmit a program change from Pro Tools it goes only to the device that is supposed to change patches, which is fine. What do I need to do with my setup in order for these devices to still transmit program changes, but not pass them on to other devices via MIDI thru? I don't want to have to turn MIDI thru off every time I want to switch patches on these outboard devices, then switch MIDI thru back on.

Is there a way in Pro Tools 8 LE to filter what data gets re-transmitted via MIDI thru? Is there some other way I should be settings these devices up?

Thanks!

[benmate]

I'm no MIDI expert, but isn't that what separate MIDI channels are for? Are the Rumour and Mopho on the same channel?

[FeatheredSerpent]

This is a good one to get the teeth into.

I'm on cubase but principles will be the same (lovely setup by the way).

First thoughts are, program changes are only going to be sent and received on that units global channel, so have you tried looking to see if the global channels are the same for those two units?

It's not a solution though because if they are on their own discrete midi ports they shouldn't be seeing each others' messages anyway. There are no physical thru connectons right? Just in and out to each synth on the different pairs of ports?

Have you set up seperate global midi tracks for each synth or are you recording the program changes onto actual part tracks?

I'm just thinking aloud here.
The way I would check would be to make a midi track for each of those 2 particular synths, label each one global+synth/device name and assign them the same channel, say 16 for each one.
Set each device's global channel to 16.
Do you have midi monitoring in protools?
If so, enable the monitor for just the Rumour's global midi track and send a program change.
If you don't have midi monitoring, do whatever you do to activate the input for that midi track (selct it or whatever) and then send the message.
Is the mopho changing now?
If it is, change the global channel on the mopho track and on the unit itself to a different value (say 1 on track and 1 on unit) then do the same thing again.
What happens now?

Another thing - I just looked at the specs for the motu 128 and it says it has 8 in but 9 out. This phantom 9th port out could be an extra one over usb, so maybe that's your rogue port and it's responsible for the behaviour.

Let me know if any of that helps anyway.

[NWSooner]

Thanks, I figured it was something really simple. Out of curiosity, if I had more than 16 external MIDI devices instead of 4, or a bunch of plugins instantiated that respond to MIDI program changes is there a solution?

[FeatheredSerpent]

Plug-ins are slightly different in that every time you fire up an instance, it automatically gets assigned its own virtual port with 16 channels, doesn't matter if it's only a single stereo out plug, or can only respond to 1 midi channel, every instrument gets its own port, and because midi thru doesn't apply to virtual instruments, you can take them out the equation.

So then you're left with 16 modules and 8 midi in/out, which is fine, you jjust make a hardware midi thru connection for each pair of modules. Theoretically you could daisy chain 128 devices from one midi port but you would get either a bottleneck and the midi stream would choke, or timing would suffer too much to be useable.

But 2 on one port would be fine. Normally in that scenario you would set the first device in each chain to ignore data on channels reserved for the second device and vice-versa.
So for example on port 1 you've got 16 channels coming in to the first synth, but it is set to only respond to channels 1-8, then all 16 channels come out the thru to the second device, which is set to only respond to channels 9-16.

[W-W-Int]

the simple solution is do not change patches or programs from the front panels of your synths and effects racks. select a midi port and channel in protools, then send patch changes inside pro tools to the corresponding device.

you should be doing this anyway as when you reload a song in pro tools then the appropriate patches get loaded for that song and you don't have to sort out what you had going in the past.

what's happening is that all midi data is being sent from the rumour including patch change info. that is being passed thru to another midi port (either virtual over usb or virtual thru a soft synth/effect or an actual midi port on the motu) which is being picked up by whatever device is on that port at the time.