Are Native Instruments industry standards?

[littlejim84]

Do pros in studios actually consider the Native Instruments software packages as industry standards? Such as Kontakt, Battery, Massive, Absynth? ...they seem to be the only really complete and very high quality software packages that cover all the needs... An instrument sampler, a drum sampler, a chunky phat synth and a nice texture/atmosphere synth respectively.

There is all this software that comes out all of the time, and its easy to get wrapped up in all the bullshit, and not actually make music. But I'm trying to take things a little more seriously with my music and stuff... I'm learning Logic slowly and already use Ableton Live for my groove maker and live performer software. I want to choose a selection of third party software that I can get to know really really well... I was thinking that Native Instruments stuff would be it.

But I've been losing faith in their product range recently... Even their recent NAMM efforts have been pretty unexciting to me. They seem to be abandoning their old product range and concentrating on sound packs, Kore and new gadgets...

But these mentioned softwares are worth knowing right? That selection of stuff, as well as Logic and Live, really would be pretty much everything I could need? (but I'd like to have useful skills for later down the line too...)

I just wondered what the take of all this software is? Spending the next year getting to know all this stuff inside and out can only be a good thing for me right?

[digital 1010]

If you dig deep and learn these instruments your laughing as they really are good. You can get such an array of sounds out of them. And the quality is there as well.

I tend to use massive for messed up hard sounds and for layers that emphasize the groove.
Battery i use alongside the d16 stuff and good samples.
Fm8 for layers and ambiences and stabs
Absynth for weirdness and pads

The least used is pro53

They are great value and great quality and excellent for creating your own sounds

Ben

[Milesy303]

I have been tracking from a hardware drum machine with only 2 outputs and it very painstaking and I spend too much time bouncing stuff down as I want to apply different processing to different sounds.

I have just got Battery and I am loving it so far. Gives you a lot more time to just focus on the creativity and the music. You cant use the multiple outputs from it with Cubase 4 LE though so I need to wait till payday so I can get the upgrade to SE.

With multilple output you can be rediculiously creative to the sounds it makes, even with the standard drum kits. You can completely change the envelopes and timbres of the sounds and get something completely unique.

I love my outboard stuff, but that kind of messing about with my drum machine is just too counter productive, and Battery looks like it will keep my creative juices flowing until I get a Linndrum 2 and more inputs which wont be for a little while yet.

Most electronic stuff though is not often made in pro studios, not in the sense of the pro studios that the guys in the other forums in here use. I hear most of the techno, trance, house, and electro that is made just now and you can hear patches from all the popular soft synths in use as well. Pro studio I suppose can apply to any home studio that is being used professionally rather than just a hobby so it is hard to define, but a lot of the pro producers definately use soft synths.

[littlejim84]

Originally Posted by digital 1010

If you dig deep and learn these instruments your laughing as they really are good. You can get such an array of sounds out of them. And the quality is there as well.

I tend to use massive for messed up hard sounds and for layers that emphasize the groove.
Battery i use alongside the d16 stuff and good samples.
Fm8 for layers and ambiences and stabs
Absynth for weirdness and pads

The least used is pro53

They are great value and great quality and excellent for creating your own sounds

Ben

...its good to know.

But I just wonder if Native Instruments are gonna bother with these products anymore? They haven't really done any major updates for a looooong time (apart from the kind of recent Kontakt 3 update) and with all this other stuff they're bringing out, especially concentrating on this Kore thing and sound packs, will they continue to support and develop these products?

It might seem like a weird concern, but if I'm going to spend more (and ALOT of time) on certain products, I want to make sure they'll be supported and be there for many years to come...

Also... On my audio CV, it would be a good thing to say I'm good at these products? ... Abit like Logic, are they kind of 'industry standards'?

[Milesy303]

If you buy a drum machine or synth hardware... eventually new products come out and you upgrade... It's the way of things regardless of whether it's hardware or software. Technology moves on, home processing power increases, and people have new ideas.

[Milesy303]

Originally Posted by littlejim84

Also... On my audio CV, it would be a good thing to say I'm good at these products? ... Abit like Logic, are they kind of 'industry standards'?

If it is a skill you have picked up that you think will be useful to yourself or someone else then yeah it goes on your CV, but at the end of the day they are just the tools. It would probably be better to show what you made with the tools on your CV as well the proof is in the pudding.

[littlejim84]

Cheers for replies...

Sorry... I know this may seem like an odd sort of thread really... But I've been producing music for 6 years or so, and have been getting into other areas of general music tech - sound design, sound recording, mixing - for other people. I've been wanting to take this (and my skillls) a little more seriously. Thing is time also... Working full time, freelance outside of that, friends, family, life in general... Taking more and more time away from my productions at the moment.

I'm just wanting to select the right tools, that are perfectly capable of everything I'll ever really need, and want to choose products by decent companies who'll be supporting and developing the software in the future...

Don't know if this makes sense really? ...but maybe I should just shut up, get these perfectly capable products, and just get on and make some music!

[plaid_emu]

I've been playing synths and "makin' beets" for almost 13 years and if I were to be stranded on a deserted island (with electricity) and I could choose only one musical "instrument", it would be Reaktor. I've owned an assload of hardware over the years and I used to look down on software instruments but it was NI's Electronic Instruments 2XT that really turned me to the "dark side". Amazing capabilities in that package for $150! Soon after I bought Absynth, then the full version of Reaktor. I just recently sold most of my hardware instruments (except the Virus TI, an MPC and a few pieces of analog gear) and I seem to be crawling deeper "in the box". The more I learn about Reaktor and Absynth, the more I believe they could be all anyone ever needs to make great electronic music.

And yes, NI tools are considered "industry standards" by many folks.

[digital 1010]

Originally Posted by plaid_emu

I've been playing synths and "makin' beets" for almost 13 years and if I were to be stranded on a deserted island (with electricity) and I could choose only one musical "instrument", it would be Reaktor. I've owned an assload of hardware over the years and I used to look down on software instruments but it was NI's Electronic Instruments 2XT that really turned me to the "dark side". Amazing capabilities in that package for $150! Soon after I bought Absynth, then the full version of Reaktor. I just recently sold most of my hardware instruments (except the Virus TI, an MPC and a few pieces of analog gear) and I seem to be crawling deeper "in the box". The more I learn about Reaktor and Absynth, the more I believe they could be all anyone ever needs to make great electronic music.

And yes, NI tools are considered "industry standards" by many folks.

At the end of the day if you look at what proper paid releasing artists use it is all over the place. You may get the purist analog head who sniffs at software but their music is too complex anal and lifeless, then you may get the fruityloops nutter who gets the most amazing grooves and people blow up on the dance floor to their tunes. And vice versa kiddy tracks in fruity loops and full blown lush analog goodness from the analog dude.

What looks good on a cv i would say is the ability to come up with quality goods in the timescales to the satisfaction of the customer. Any tool that suits your workflow to achieve this is professional.

At the end if the day if you can hit a niche at the right time and people like it they wont care what you used.

Ben

[msl]

I'd say in the edm fraternity yes, Massive is industry standard. As mentioned above it is very deep and well worth the time getting into. Personally fm8 and Reaktor are amazing as well, maybe not industry standard though.

[tehlord]

I think it depends what you're looking for more than anything. Personally I wasn't that impressed with Massive. That's more to do with me not being a skilled knob twiddler and it not really fitting in with my style of music.

Absyth is useless to me for the same reason and I found FM8s sounds a bit thin.

Battery is good, but then so is GURU which I think is cheaper.

I prefer the one at a time VST purchase route as there are some gems out there. My current ones are :-

Rob Papen Predator
Lennar Digital Sylenth
Applied Acoustics Ultra Analog VA1

i'm also looking at getting u-he Zebra 2


Kontakt is possibly the best sampling package out there though, saying that I dont use samplers very much, yet.

[Agreed]

On a different note, Guitar Rig 3 has probably the best market penetration out of all of the "software only" modeling companies (a distinction which I don't very much like, since it's all software whether it's running on a little kidney-bean shaped computer or a bigger traditional desktop tower). But I don't think it's used on as many records as other software; it has great features, amazing effects and incredible routing options (like nested specific crossovers to split the signal up however you want and process each band individually and differently, then resolve it later with correct phase). But the amp models aren't the best in the industry; rather, they range from usable but unexciting, to excellent. Mostly a problem with the cabinet simulation, it's just a little bit off in Guitar Rig 3 on the whole. But their numbers are impressive. Whether those numbers represent studio professionals or just dudes buying software for their own use, that I can't say, and they certainly don't.

I do know that if all you had was Guitar Rig 3 and nothing else, you could still make great sounding recordings once you got to know it. That counts for something important.

I don't like Native's product support, though. They let bugs linger a bit too long for my tastes. And they definitely run way behind schedule on drivers, users were waiting for 64-bit Rig Kontrol drivers since fall of 2007 when they were first announced to be released soon. They finally got them done alongside Guitar Rig 3 update 3.2, the week of NAMM. Their activation process can be a headache (though it isn't always).

[littlejim84]

Again, I know this is bit of a weird thread really... But it's more of an exercise of me trying to find a decent path through all this software madness...

My own productions mainly evolve around synthesised beats, real drum breaks, subby bass, dub chords, 'real' instruments (pianos, double bass, brass), sampled/manipulated textures and effects etc...

I suppose in that vain... Battery would cover my synthesised beats (using well recorded hits from old drum machines etc.), also I can throw my drum breaks in there too, Massive could be used for sub bass and dub chords and general synesis, then armed with my vinyl deck and my digital hand recorder with Kontakt that covers my sampled effects and textures and 'real' instruments...

I'm thinking that trio of software - Kontakt, Battery and Massive - aslong as I put the time and effort in, should cover everything?

Cheers for the link to artists who use this stuff... And man... if Radiohead are using Kontakt, it can't be bad!

[digital 1010]

Originally Posted by littlejim84

Again, I know this is bit of a weird thread really... But it's more of an exercise of me trying to find a decent path through all this software madness...

My own productions mainly evolve around synthesised beats, real drum breaks, subby bass, dub chords, 'real' instruments (pianos, double bass, brass), sampled/manipulated textures and effects etc...

I suppose in that vain... Battery would cover my synthesised beats (using well recorded hits from old drum machines etc.), also I can throw my drum breaks in there too, Massive could be used for sub bass and dub chords and general synesis, then armed with my vinyl deck and my digital hand recorder with Kontakt that covers my sampled effects and textures and 'real' instruments...

I'm thinking that trio of software - Kontakt, Battery and Massive - aslong as I put the time and effort in, should cover everything?

Cheers for the link to artists who use this stuff... And man... if Radiohead are using Kontakt, it can't be bad!

If you can still get it NI Komplete synths was a good package and price

[W-W-Int]

massive is way too over the top for bass, especially sub bass.
the best tool for bass duties has to be fm-8. and that's not just from native instruments catalog that's period, end of story. if you actually program it fm-8 is insane for bass. the presets are a big let down and do nothing to show the real potential of fm-8 sonically. they all sound like random patch generators created them.

take fm-8 out of context for a secnd and you'll see where i'm heading here...
six oscillators capabale of saw waves independantly tuned
mod matrix
dual filters
unison detune
delay and reverb
sounds like a pretty bad ass jp-8000 clone doesn't it?

six fm operators
complete ability to load any dx-7 patch
delay reverb
morphing between patches
sounds like a dx-7 emulator with extras doesn't it?

we're talking about the same product here. most people ignore the extra waveforms available beyond the sines and just use it for fm. but it can actually be used as a six osc v.a. as well with unison detune after being able to tune the osc's seperately inside the patch.

[TacosWhenTwisted]

Massive sounds sound very top heavy for me. Very metallic.

[Silver Sonya]

Industry?

- c

[littlejim84]

Originally Posted by W-W-Int

massive is way too over the top for bass, especially sub bass.
the best tool for bass duties has to be fm-8. and that's not just from native instruments catalog that's period, end of story. if you actually program it fm-8 is insane for bass. the presets are a big let down and do nothing to show the real potential of fm-8 sonically. they all sound like random patch generators created them.

take fm-8 out of context for a secnd and you'll see where i'm heading here...
six oscillators capabale of saw waves independantly tuned
mod matrix
dual filters
unison detune
delay and reverb
sounds like a pretty bad ass jp-8000 clone doesn't it?

six fm operators
complete ability to load any dx-7 patch
delay reverb
morphing between patches
sounds like a dx-7 emulator with extras doesn't it?

we're talking about the same product here. most people ignore the extra waveforms available beyond the sines and just use it for fm. but it can actually be used as a six osc v.a. as well with unison detune after being able to tune the osc's seperately inside the patch.

I see... I think you are right... But I've tried FM8 and always found it completely abstract. I like to know what I'm doing, and how things are being affected, and with the FM8 I was just too confused with the power it had. Massive has a simple interface and I can think of (ok, simple) sounds in my mind and actually make them in it, which is surely what synths should be about?

But I am also using Ableton Live as my environment and I have purchased Operator. Which, in my book, is an amazingly simple and versitile little FM synth. Within no time I was making the basics I needed... Kick drums, snares, hi hats, and sub bass... It's a clean, simple, little bugger and is just enough for me to get my shit down quickly... Maybe when I'm better at this, I could move up to FM8.

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by littlejim84

Do pros in studios actually consider the Native Instruments software packages as industry standards? Such as Kontakt, Battery, Massive, Absynth? ...they seem to be the only really complete and very high quality software packages that cover all the needs...

Here is my take as a NI user since 1999 Generator and Transformator that turned into Reaktor that same year. I also use most other NI synth products, Kontakt 3 KORE2 and they compliment nicely with 9 hardware synths in my project studio.

I don't know what you mean by "pros in studios" but if you mean session synth players in a high dollar studio, it's not happening there. With NI the pros are doing the work at home. You don't want to get stuck playing with Reaktor in a $100 hour studio. However in film score studios I have seen Reaktor for many years.

At the moment, and as you said, things seem to be a bit dismal because NI's new baby is a glorified beat box while Reaktor, which I think is NI's flagship product, hasn't seen an update in years. Everyone is waiting and wondering about Reaktor. But keep in mind that you could spend your lifetime exploring Reaktor. It is that deep and you could end up tweaking and never making music if you don't set your priorities straight.

Regarding KORE, I see it as just an extension of the NI line. KORE is a very powerful tool but definitely not for everyone. NI needs to make a few changes before I integrate it any further.

As far as going with a package or buying select NI products, keep in mind the upgrade issues when purchasing a package, and also know that some of the older products and original packages were selling very cheap at Guitar Center. There is a lot of quality non-NI synths as mentioned in the above threads that are not packages.

Don't loose faith in NI just yet. They haven't been bought out by any corporation demanding higher profit margins, and some of the best people are still there from the late 90s Reaktor days.