Official REAL Rhodes Keys ?

[Infa]

Looking for a answer from you O.G.'s out there on purchasing a Real Rhodes Keyboard.

Is it best to go with a vintage old school one ? If so, which one ? MarkI, II, III, IV, etc.. ?
And why ?

Or are the middle old ones better ? If so why ?

Or are the new, new ones the best ? If so why ?

What I am looking for in the sound is maybe not a ridiculously old sound that was all muddy like... BUT I have to tell you that when I hear all these sound modules and new workstations Rhodes Keys sounds, they just don't cut it for me, so something MORE authentic and real than that.

Basically the sound of what was on records from 1975-1985 around them time frames.
Real authentic, but not too old and dirty. Something reliable and obtainable as well. Looking for a real feel as far as key action too. Wood keys NOT the plastic ones.

But when I look around, I get lost with all the choices and names, and don't know what is best. I like talking to real old school musicians, because even though there is a such thing as opinion and taste out there, there is also usually the undeniable "go to" machine that everyone can agree is the SHIZZZ'NIT... So what is that as far as getting that authentic real Rhodes Key sound ?

Don't care if it is a Vintage hard to find one, I will find one and buy it. BUT don't care if you say soft synths are doing Rhodes just fine and tell me the best one of those either.. I am open, I just want to know the undeniable go to Rhodes Keyboard for that real authentic sound...

Thanks -

[Jazzpunk]

I've got a 1973 MKI and yep, it's the 'SHIZZZ'NIT'. Sounds like you might be looking for a little later model with more the 'bell' like quality though. Start here:

Vintage Piano Models (1965 - 1984)

There's a good forum through that site as well:

http://www.rhodessupersite.com/forum/

Lots of Rhodes fanatics, sound examples, etc.

[Infa]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I've got a 1973 MKI and yep, it's the 'SHIZZZ'NIT'. Sounds like you might be looking for a little later model with more the 'bell' like quality though. Start here:

Vintage Piano Models (1965 - 1984)

There's a good forum through that site as well:

http://www.rhodessupersite.com/forum/

Lots of Rhodes fanatics, sound examples, etc.

Ahhh, thank you sir. Yes you have one beauty I see. I like that one alot too.
I forgot to mention HA, the most important thing... is, even though I want that authentic real sound, I do want one that I do not have to mic. Having that option would be fine and great, but having one that has a direct output to go to a mixer or of course Pro Tools for recording would be great.

So I don't know if that puts a certain mandatory date on it or not ? Or if they all had that anyway ? Does yours ?

Yes, true, me saying I don't want the sound to be too muddy maybe implies more "belly", BUT I also don't like that too much of a bell tinny sound either. Kinda comes off cheesy sounding. Don't they all have a little EQ or some knobs on there to control to sounds you come up with a bit ? Or no ? Would that also put a certain date on the model as well ?

Also, thanks for the links. The first one I did already find. Thats the place I got confused, and just wanted to start to ask people their own opinions as well.
But the second link I never knew existed, and THANKS for that. I will join that forum and ask around as well..

Again, thanks brah !!

[soultrane]

Originally Posted by Infa

Ahhh, thank you sir. Yes you have one beauty I see. I like that one alot too.
I forgot to mention HA, the most important thing... is, even though I want that authentic real sound, I do want one that I do not have to mic. Having that option would be fine and great, but having one that has a direct output to go to a mixer or of course Pro Tools for recording would be great.

So I don't know if that puts a certain mandatory date on it or not ? Or if they all had that anyway ? Does yours ?

Yes, true, me saying I don't want the sound to be too muddy maybe implies more "belly", BUT I also don't like that too much of a bell tinny sound either. Kinda comes off cheesy sounding. Don't they all have a little EQ or some knobs on there to control to sounds you come up with a bit ? Or no ? Would that also put a certain date on the model as well ?

Also, thanks for the links. The first one I did already find. Thats the place I got confused, and just wanted to start to ask people their own opinions as well.
But the second link I never knew existed, and THANKS for that. I will join that forum and ask around as well..

Again, thanks brah !!

there are three rhodes models generally spoken of, the mark 1, the mark 2, and the mark 5.

there are very few mark fives around, so, the real choice is between the 1 and the 2.

the 1 has a curved top, and the 2 has a flat top.

each model comes in suitcase or stage versions.

the suitcase version comes with its own speakers, hence, it has an amp and active electronics.

the stage has no speakers and has passive electronics.

the biggest differences in rhodes sounds comes from the hammers and hammer tips.

the first rhodes used piano style wooden hammers with felt tips. somewhere in the production of the mark 1, they switched the hammers.

apparently, the factory felt the piano style hammers were smashing too many tines, so they switched to a plastic hammer with a plastic tip... (which, co-incidentally, were probably cheaper to make...)

so, some purists prefer not just a mark 1 but an early rev mark 1.

this gives you that classic "bark" to the tone.

for a long time, i felt cheated because my mark 2, with the plastic hammers, couldn't bark... until i took it out to a gig and a world famous rhodes-ist sat down on my piano and played it....

sure enough, there was the sound...

so, the way i think of rhodes pianos now is like they are guitars.

assuming that the piano is well regulated and maintained, 40 percent of the sound comes from the player, 35 percent comes from the fx/amp, and the other 25 percent comes from the piano itself...

in other words, set herbie down on a mark 2 with nice fx and it will sound a hell of a lot more like the vintage headhunters sound than setting some tosser down on the actual mark 1 that herbie played on that date.

so, if you get a stage piano, get a nice preamp (i have a neve/averill d.i.), an amp simulator, and some other fx, like those eventide stomp boxes, and you should be good to go, even with a stage 2.

or, u can record it clean and then add something like the scarbee vintage keys fx in the computer. lots of tweaking available there.

(ps, there are some players who actually prefer the stage 2 to the stage 1... i've seen it on riders before... but i think it has to do with the flat top more than anything else...)

[Infa]

Cool, thanks for the input and info soultrane.

Now upon looking around more, I seen and read that the Rhodes Mark V is simply the best Rhodes made ever... Is this just a opinion ? Or more of a actual truth ?

I heard on that one they brought the wooden keys back, and supposedly a design that ended up bringing back a more "bell like tone" out of it.

As you said, yes apparently they are very hard to find. BUT what I am asking is, if you did find one, and had a choice of a Rhodes Mark I early rev, vs a Rhodes Mark V, which would you choose ? Which should we ALL choose ?

Summary, and straight question for all: Is the Rhodes Mark V really the best Rhodes piano made ?

------------

Next question... as good as alot of these "Soft Synths" are getting. Is there a soft synth rhodes plug in that is simply dead on imitating the Rhodes Pianos to a tee ? Or at least "good enough" should I say even for a purist ? Also, it seems like if there were one "good enough", it would even be better because it could have all the Rhodes Piano's in one plug in. Or at least the best most popular ones packed all into one plug in ? If so, what is the best plug in soft synth for Rhodes Keys ?

---------------

Last question.... I also have stumbled across a new looking Rhodes Site. Looks like the official Rhodes Piano Music Cooperation site. Rhodes Mark 7 - Rhodes Piano - Rhodes Music Corporation
Now how about one of them Rhodes ? Are they good ? What do they sound like ? Would it be best to buy one of those ?

Summary: Out of the three major questions above, what is the best route to take ?

1 - Buy a original older one ? If so, which one ? Is the Mark V the best ?

2- Buy a Soft Synth Rhodes Keys plug In ? If so which one is the best ?

3 - Buy a newly manufactured one from Rhodes Music Corp ? If so which one is the best ?


THANKS !!!

[sctt_stone]

Hey- I have a Rhodes. Its a 75. I got it cheap on Ebay and it has turned into the biggest pain in the ass ever.
I have put about 40 - 60 hours into working on the damn thing and on top of the 550 I spent I have put about 300 more into it.
It still is not right.

My suggestion is to call a place like Vintage Vibe and buy a refurbed piano from them. I wish I had.
For around 3,000 you will get a completely re- everything piano.

Originally Posted by Infa

Cool, thanks for the input and info soultrane.

Now upon looking around more, I seen and read that the Rhodes Mark V is simply the best Rhodes made ever... Is this just a opinion ? Or more of a actual truth ?

I heard on that one they brought the wooden keys back, and supposedly a design that ended up bringing back a more "bell like tone" out of it.

As you said, yes apparently they are very hard to find. BUT what I am asking is, if you did find one, and had a choice of a Rhodes Mark I early rev, vs a Rhodes Mark V, which would you choose ? Which should we ALL choose ?

Summary, and straight question for all: Is the Rhodes Mark V really the best Rhodes piano made ?

------------

Next question... as good as alot of these "Soft Synths" are getting. Is there a soft synth rhodes plug in that is simply dead on imitating the Rhodes Pianos to a tee ? Or at least "good enough" should I say even for a purist ? Also, it seems like if there were one "good enough", it would even be better because it could have all the Rhodes Piano's in one plug in. Or at least the best most popular ones packed all into one plug in ? If so, what is the best plug in soft synth for Rhodes Keys ?

---------------

Last question.... I also have stumbled across a new looking Rhodes Site. Looks like the official Rhodes Piano Music Cooperation site. Rhodes Mark 7 - Rhodes Piano - Rhodes Music Corporation
Now how about one of them Rhodes ? Are they good ? What do they sound like ? Would it be best to buy one of those ?

Summary: Out of the three major questions above, what is the best route to take ?

1 - Buy a original older one ? If so, which one ? Is the Mark V the best ?

2- Buy a Soft Synth Rhodes Keys plug In ? If so which one is the best ?

3 - Buy a newly manufactured one from Rhodes Music Corp ? If so which one is the best ?


THANKS !!!

[peteblues]

Originally Posted by Infa

1 - Buy a original older one ? If so, which one ? Is the Mark V the best ?

2- Buy a Soft Synth Rhodes Keys plug In ? If so which one is the best ?

3 - Buy a newly manufactured one from Rhodes Music Corp ? If so which one is the best ?


THANKS !!!

1. you can buy an old Rhodes that's still in a good, playable condition. I have a Rhodes that I bought about 2 years ago, for $500. It just took a little tune up, which I did myself, so basically I didn't spend any extra $$ on it.
I guess I could improve things here and there. Some dampers are sluggish, the keybed could be have a little less wiggle. But as it is, it plays, and has an awesome sound.
The Mark V is supposively the best, with an improved action over the older ones (MK1 and 2), overall lighter, but it's also ridiculously expensive (you occasionally see them on ebay for $3500+)

2. Going the soft synth route can be a good option for a lot of people. Some of the emulations come really close. Lounge Lizard makes a pretty good emulation, MrRay is also a very good one (a lot of people say it's the best emulation out there), and there's some sample library (forgot the name), which is apparently really good too.
On the hardware side, you can also try the Nord stage or electro. The Stage has weighted keyboards, which is nicer to play Rhodes than using a waterfall keyboard (electro), but the stage is also much pricier.

3. The new ones look tasty, but I have some skepticism. They went from a rugged Rhodes (mk1 - 5), that includes it's own flightcase, to some glossy, scratch prone plastic, which makes it lighter, but it's still Rhodes heavy and takes either a dolly or 2 people to move around. Aside from the plastic shell, they seem like really nice pianos, apparently modelled after the Mark V, and improved upon. They also offer active models, that have tremolo, which is nice to have. The passive models require a preamp, so you can't just plug them into your soundcard and record tutt

[Infa]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

Hey- I have a Rhodes. Its a 75. I got it cheap on Ebay and it has turned into the biggest pain in the ass ever.
I have put about 40 - 60 hours into working on the damn thing and on top of the 550 I spent I have put about 300 more into it.
It still is not right.

My suggestion is to call a place like Vintage Vibe and buy a refurbed piano from them. I wish I had.
For around 3,000 you will get a completely re- everything piano.

Thanks alot for sharing your experience and therefore warning and input on this matter sctt_stone. I will definitely be taking that into consideration now. Plus it seems like a very good point.

Originally Posted by peteblues

1. you can buy an old Rhodes that's still in a good, playable condition. .........READ ORIGINAL REPLY ABOVE........

Yo Mr. Pete man Blues -- Great knowledge to share man, really appreciate it. As far as the soft synths, I did know about Lounge Lizard, but you definitely hipped me to that MrRay joint. I checked/read it out and it looks really nice.

So now I will be thinking alot. I actually been finding alot of Mark I's and II's around on my local craigslist and eBay. But now as I think about it more, and as I learned more information and knowledge about all the Rhodes Piano's, it might be wise for me to go with either a Mark V, or a new Mark 7 for the weight factor and for the upkeep factor. Plus I have learned them 2 units actually sound great if not better than the older units !! They simply were the 2 versions that knew to bring back the real true old school flavor and nuances of the original ones, BUT they improved on them even !! So they seem win win to me.. (someone please correct me if I am wrong).

I think either way I choose, I plan on getting a few Rhodes Keys soft synths. But the choice just MIGHT be to only go with the soft synths.. Still thinking about all pros and cons in this new world of space vs authentic sound, etc..

[soultrane]

Originally Posted by Infa

Cool, thanks for the input and info soultrane.

Now upon looking around more, I seen and read that the Rhodes Mark V is simply the best Rhodes made ever... Is this just a opinion ? Or more of a actual truth ?

I heard on that one they brought the wooden keys back, and supposedly a design that ended up bringing back a more "bell like tone" out of it.

As you said, yes apparently they are very hard to find. BUT what I am asking is, if you did find one, and had a choice of a Rhodes Mark I early rev, vs a Rhodes Mark V, which would you choose ? Which should we ALL choose ?

Summary, and straight question for all: Is the Rhodes Mark V really the best Rhodes piano made ?

------------

Next question... as good as alot of these "Soft Synths" are getting. Is there a soft synth rhodes plug in that is simply dead on imitating the Rhodes Pianos to a tee ? Or at least "good enough" should I say even for a purist ? Also, it seems like if there were one "good enough", it would even be better because it could have all the Rhodes Piano's in one plug in. Or at least the best most popular ones packed all into one plug in ? If so, what is the best plug in soft synth for Rhodes Keys ?

---------------

Last question.... I also have stumbled across a new looking Rhodes Site. Looks like the official Rhodes Piano Music Cooperation site. Rhodes Mark 7 - Rhodes Piano - Rhodes Music Corporation
Now how about one of them Rhodes ? Are they good ? What do they sound like ? Would it be best to buy one of those ?

Summary: Out of the three major questions above, what is the best route to take ?

1 - Buy a original older one ? If so, which one ? Is the Mark V the best ?

2- Buy a Soft Synth Rhodes Keys plug In ? If so which one is the best ?

3 - Buy a newly manufactured one from Rhodes Music Corp ? If so which one is the best ?


THANKS !!!

the idea that the mark 5 is the "best" rhodes piano around is not really confirmable. i'm sure the few mark 5 owners think theirs is the best. some people think the bell like tone is too pronounced in it, moving it closer to dx7 "crystal piano" type sound... which is not what many people are after.

for what its worth, whenever i play a rhodes simulation that has a mark 1, mark 2, and mark 5 on it, the mark 5 sample is always the one i like the LEAST.

its kind of like steinway pianos, in a way. some say the new ones are junk, some say the new ones are the best ever, some say the ones during the cbs era were the worst, but vladamir horowitz, who could have had any piano he wanted, had a model d from the cbs era.

so, you might find a really tasty mark 1, mark 2, or mark 5. the trick is to be able to play it for yourself before buying it.

as far as the simulators... i have never found one that i liked... or, more to the point, i never heard one that sounded much like a rhodes...

this includes the evp plug in in logic, the lounge lizard, clavia nord electro, etc...

think of it like this; suppose someone came up with a dead on telecaster emulation for your computer....

it mght sound like a telecaster, but would you actually PLAY it, with a mouse or some midi keyboard, like a real telecaster was meant to be played?

if you want a telecaster, get a telecaster.

same with a rhodes... part of what makes a rhodes great are the imperfections within the rhodes... the key letup being picked up by the amp, etc...

and of course, the action on a rhodes is why you play the rhodes the way you play it... its sloppy and imprecise, the exact opposite of, say, a motif or a nord stage...

there's nothing "computer" or "virtual" about a rhodes...

is as real as it gets.

as for the new rhodes, i know some of the guys behind that effort, and they've had it in their minds to produce a new rhodes since before i met them, over 10 years ago.

three years ago at namm, they showed some old pianos in new cases, and they keep "getting closer" to actually doing it.

of course, that was before all the credit for business development dried up.. i guess what i'm saying is, if you want the classic rhodes sound, don't wait for the mark 7, don't worry about a mark 5, just search craigs list and find some old lady who's got a mark 1 or mark 2 that her husband left her thats in good condition, grab it, love it, and pass it on to your kids.