Electronic dance music tips and techniques

[gst]

I was thinking if anyone here would like to share his/her techniques about creating dance music (techno, house etc).
Share tips and techniques not only about what compressor, effects or eq to use but your musical way of doing your music, how do you write down your ideas, your workflow and anything you want. Offcousrce all forms of dance music are welcome...

Thanls

[CircusofMind]

Originally Posted by gst

I was thinking if anyone here would like to share his/her techniques about creating dance music (techno, house etc).
Share tips and techniques not only about what compressor, effects or eq to use but your musical way of doing your music, how do you write down your ideas, your workflow and anything you want. Offcousrce all forms of dance music are welcome...

Thanls

Really? So you are asking us all to share 'anything' about 'anything' in 'any' genre of electronic music.

Maybe be a little more specific in your questions?
This entire sub-forum addresses your very general topic.

[gst]

yeah the topic is general share what you want about making dance music

[iangomes]

make LOTS of songs and try lots of things... it's made me better so far, that doesn't say a lot though.

[SWAN808]

Amazon.co.uk: Dance Music Manual: Tools. toys and techniques: Tools. Toys and Techniques: Rick Snoman: Books

[zebastian21]

Originally Posted by gst

I was thinking if anyone here would like to share his/her techniques about creating dance music (techno, house etc).
Share tips and techniques not only about what compressor, effects or eq to use but your musical way of doing your music, how do you write down your ideas, your workflow and anything you want. Offcousrce all forms of dance music are welcome...

Thanls

I would say...start buying the Future Music magazine, they come with dvd where well known producers share their way of working... I have learned so so so much by just watching those videos

[gst]

iangomes thanks for the advice i think it is true
SWAN808 thanks for the suggestion i will check the book

Let me start
I will post some points how i do things and what am liking from dance music
-I am using ableton live
-I like he deep and tech side of house and techno, deep basses, cutted chords, the usual techno hihats etc.
-When i have an idea i write it in the sequencer with a random vsti and then i change the sound to fit to the rest of the track
-I usually begin a track with kick, snare, hats and some pad or bass and i try to extend it to 2-3 minutes and not to stick to 8 bar loop
-I like to use feedback delay and i think it has a good effect on small notes that play once in a while in the loop
-I usually use simple note arragment as the music i make dont demand continuous melodies
-I think that a very important think on a loop base track is to have a good loop. The bass, the drums (especially the perc stuff) and the rest of the sound that play continiously to feet perfectly with each other and to make you move. (I need a lot of work on that).
I cant think of anything alse at the moment

[cavedweller]

Check out Tom Cosm and Index of/academy/ for some cool tutorials and inspiration.You could also just try listening to your favorite music and picking it apart and try to recreate the things you like

[gst]

zebastian21
cavedweller
thanks for your inputs i will check

[Phaidon]

Originally Posted by zebastian21

I would say...start buying the Future Music magazine, they come with dvd where well known producers share their way of working...

+1

[*iIIiCit*]

Originally Posted by gst

iangomes thanks for the advice i think it is true
SWAN808 thanks for the suggestion i will check the book

Let me start
I will post some points how i do things and what am liking from dance music
-I am using ableton live
-I like he deep and tech side of house and techno, deep basses, cutted chords, the usual techno hihats etc.
-When i have an idea i write it in the sequencer with a random vsti and then i change the sound to fit to the rest of the track
-I usually begin a track with kick, snare, hats and some pad or bass and i try to extend it to 2-3 minutes and not to stick to 8 bar loop
-I like to use feedback delay and i think it has a good effect on small notes that play once in a while in the loop
-I usually use simple note arragment as the music i make dont demand continuous melodies
-I think that a very important think on a loop base track is to have a good loop. The bass, the drums (especially the perc stuff) and the rest of the sound that play continiously to feet perfectly with each other and to make you move. (I need a lot of work on that).
I cant think of anything alse at the moment

Hi! so...what advise do u need? U know how it works!
Now practise as much u can!
What gear do u use?

greetz

G

[gst]

*iIIiCit*

I dont really want a specific advice. I just wanted to know how do you guys work to do your music, if you want to share it offcourse.

Discussing about something like that i thing always make everyone better or at least learn something new.

As for the gear, i use ableton live with soft synths. I dont have any outboard toys yet.

[msl]

don't read GS too much!
practice, practice, practice
collaborate, collaborate, collaborate
make your own samples, resample yourself
DON'T copy that popular bassline!
go out and listen to new music every week
be careful you don't catch loopitis or justiceitis!
make friends with DJ's, listen to their opinions
buy the best monitors you can
move to Berlin....

[*iIIiCit*]

Originally Posted by gst

*iIIiCit*

I dont really want a specific advice. I just wanted to know how do you guys work to do your music, if you want to share it offcourse.

Discussing about something like that i thing always make everyone better or at least learn something new.

As for the gear, i use ableton live with soft synths. I dont have any outboard toys yet.

heya!

i know, but everyone has its own way to work, like for example a painter.

i do it similar to u, first the "base" (kik, bass, percussion) till the loop is running and running and running and......
than i start to get some mood in there, athmos, fx, effected percussion...)
than i stard programm the melody (like u) switch the presets at the synth, when i found something i like, i advance the sound to my tast. i always record the instrument dry (save the midichannel) than i add reverb or whatever.
so i create a "BuiltUp"

my friend creates a loop first, adds all percussion sound and synths. than he fills the sequencer and mutes out the parts that does not fit into the tune!

What kind of music do u produce?

greetz

[gst]

msl

Thanks for posting. About the last one i'm thinking moving to berlin seriously
Good points here. Especially the collaboration, will be really good experience

[gst]

*iIIiCit*

Cool, your friends method sound good too
I like to produce mainly tech house, techno. Very influenced by the ''German'' sound, if there is such a thing.

[*iIIiCit*]

Originally Posted by gst

*iIIiCit*

Cool, your friends method sound good too
I like to produce mainly tech house, techno. Very influenced by the ''German'' sound, if there is such a thing.

Try out, u´ll see how u can work the most effectiv way!
Send me a link (if u want) with some tunes (even when they are not finished)


have a graet weekend you slutz

[7161]

hmm, good topic. My tip is about noobs entering the game with a pc and s/w and a synth or 2 etc and 'not getting it'

if you want to learn to make club music, the best way imo is to start by getting a mixer.. say 16 channels. idaly you want some hardware in this mix such as a hardware sampler or some hardware synths and your pc outs (the more outs the better)

create a 16 bar loop in the sequencer.. drums, bassline, pads, synthy parts, percussion and noise parts etc

send each sound into the board and mute all the channels except the kik

press play and mix it... mix it for hours, bun a few spliffs and mix it and mix it and mix it... work that mix, bringing stuff in and out, changing patterns in the drums from time to time (as you would back in the day with TR/TB/SH etc units, and mixing on the board

imo this is what'll get a noob to understand the roots of dance music creation, and unless you get that you usualy have problems 'getting it'

it allows the user to work the mix like a deejay and it's as close as you'll get to old skool classic live peformance and old-skool studio mix protocol.. changing drum & sequencer patterns on the fly, mixing on the fly etc.

I find the biggest stumbling block for noobs wanting to make club music is that they come to the table thinking like a musician and that doesnt work... you need to think more like a deejay, creating a linear mix out of components as if you had 16 turntables.

make sense? noobs go to it thinking like a 'musician' and it usualy comes out sounding like electronic music, not club music

[gst]

7161
Thanks for your post. Really great advice. The problem with me i think is to get the elements of the track fit together to make a strong base of the track.
The way you suggested its going to help me improve that by trying different things in and out of the mix.

''they come to the table thinking like a musician and that doesnt work''. So true
thanks again really helpfull

[SonOfSteven]

Originally Posted by 7161

hmm, good topic. My tip is about noobs entering the game with a pc and s/w and a synth or 2 etc and 'not getting it'

if you want to learn to make club music, the best way imo is to start by getting a mixer.. say 16 channels. idaly you want some hardware in this mix such as a hardware sampler or some hardware synths and your pc outs (the more outs the better)

create a 16 bar loop in the sequencer.. drums, bassline, pads, synthy parts, percussion and noise parts etc

send each sound into the board and mute all the channels except the kik

press play and mix it... mix it for hours, bun a few spliffs and mix it and mix it and mix it... work that mix, bringing stuff in and out, changing patterns in the drums from time to time (as you would back in the day with TR/TB/SH etc units, and mixing on the board

imo this is what'll get a noob to understand the roots of dance music creation, and unless you get that you usualy have problems 'getting it'

it allows the user to work the mix like a deejay and it's as close as you'll get to old skool classic live peformance and old-skool studio mix protocol.. changing drum & sequencer patterns on the fly, mixing on the fly etc.

I find the biggest stumbling block for noobs wanting to make club music is that they come to the table thinking like a musician and that doesnt work... you need to think more like a deejay, creating a linear mix out of components as if you had 16 turntables.

make sense? noobs go to it thinking like a 'musician' and it usualy comes out sounding like electronic music, not club music

Interesting point of view, makes complete sense to me. when I produce music thinking this, most of the time the tune will naturally work muuuuch better on the dancefloor. Other times over thinking a tune and trying to be to complex musically just doesnt work out the same, for me atleast

[kraku]

My tip would be that there are four important things in dance music:
- rhythm
- groove
- sound design
- arrangement

99% of the dance music tracks take a short cut in the arrangement part of production, which is a shame, but you'll get OK stuff if you get those four things right. Also realize that if you actually have a good SONG which you turn into a dance arrangement/production, you'll get a really nice end results. Depending on the actual dance music genre, you might want to consider working on the actual melodies and chord progressions first and then start working on the sound design etc.


Here's a quickly produced dance track (a couple of evenings), made as a joke:
http://www.krakulandia.info/Music/mm...et%20Lovin.mp3

It's not anything special, but listen how the same bassline goes on and on throughout the whole song without changing in anyway, except that it's lowpass filtered occasionally. This makes it much less boring. It's a common trick in the dance music genre.

[kraku]

Originally Posted by 7161

noobs go to it thinking like a 'musician' and it usualy comes out sounding like electronic music, not club music

I partly disagree. Good dance stuff usually has a good arrangement/structure. Most of the dance stuff is boring because not much attention has been given to these things of the track. Traditional music writing emphasizes arrangement/structure alot and for a reason. The same applies to dance music also, but you don't necessarily make the exact same choices as when you were writing a song for a rock band. If you know how to create tension/relese type of things in one music genre, it still applies in techno/house/trance type of genres.

A dance track which has a good arrangement/structure lasts for years. Otherwise it's just something you'll listen to a couple of times and forget it after that...

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by msl

don't read GS too much!
practice, practice, practice
collaborate, collaborate, collaborate
make your own samples, resample yourself
DON'T copy that popular bassline!
go out and listen to new music every week
be careful you don't catch loopitis or justiceitis!
make friends with DJ's, listen to their opinions
buy the best monitors you can
move to Berlin....

haha classic!

I start with a 4/4 kick spanned over 4 bars and then it pretty much goes anywhere from there. Every time I build something interesting I drop it onto another midi track and start with the basic 4 bars again (kick, some bleeps, effects etc). I use a lot of bleeps and sounds to create a nice driving rhythm but don't crowd the mix, rather on the sparse side in fact. At the end I arrange all my favourite bits how I like and start mixing. Although I do make minimal so I guess it depends what you're into....

[rhythmtech]

Originally Posted by kraku

A dance track which has a good arrangement/structure lasts for years. Otherwise it's just something you'll listen to a couple of times and forget it after that...

exactly. too many amateurs making fillers when they should be aiming for killers.

if you base your tracks solely on dancefloor dynamics you'll end up with boring generic toss. the true test is to write songs that still work on the dancefloor. arrangement can definitly make a track but without substance behind it, it means nothing.

[kraku]

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

exactly. too many amateurs making fillers when they should be aiming for killers.

if you base your tracks solely on dancefloor dynamics you'll end up with boring generic toss. the true test is to write songs that still work on the dancefloor. arrangement can definitly make a track but without substance behind it, it means nothing.

Amen!


A tip for better dance floor stuff:
"Use as few elements in your music as possible; your mix wont get crowded and the dynamics and sounds work better on dance floor. Also, if the song doesn't work well with just drums, bass and lead-synth/singing, it probably isn't a very good/catchy track/song."

The above also works on most of the other music genres.

[zebastian21]

The way I work is :
I preach the same thing to everyone I collaborate with and work for:
Make a default start up template of your sequencer, put in there the plug ins or samples that you know you will be using .
For example in my case I work with Logic pro, I have a start template where I spent time to configure 6 busses FX and 6 buss compression . I set up the plug ins I will use the most like Stylus Rmx and Virus Ti plug in.
So I configured each Stylus Rmx so each channel has a different element for me to play right away..CH-1-Kicks. Ch 2-Snares-Ch-3 HiHats..etc.
same goes for Virus.
the make an 8 Bars loop and start layering as much as I can, making each element "talk" to eachother".
Once I have 15 or more basic elements of the groove I start thinking about arrangement

[msl]

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

exactly. too many amateurs making fillers when they should be aiming for killers.

hahaha quote!

So where do they sell this 'substance' you talk of, does it come as a native plugin?

[iangomes]

sorry, you need brain dsp to run it

[Shim]

Substance isn't just for the studio. If you're on the dance floor, a little bit of substance use tends to make everything sound better.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by 7161

hmm, good topic. My tip is about noobs entering the game with a pc and s/w and a synth or 2 etc and 'not getting it'

if you want to learn to make club music, the best way imo is to start by getting a mixer.. say 16 channels. idaly you want some hardware in this mix such as a hardware sampler or some hardware synths and your pc outs (the more outs the better)

create a 16 bar loop in the sequencer.. drums, bassline, pads, synthy parts, percussion and noise parts etc

send each sound into the board and mute all the channels except the kik

press play and mix it... mix it for hours, bun a few spliffs and mix it and mix it and mix it... work that mix, bringing stuff in and out, changing patterns in the drums from time to time (as you would back in the day with TR/TB/SH etc units, and mixing on the board

imo this is what'll get a noob to understand the roots of dance music creation, and unless you get that you usualy have problems 'getting it'

it allows the user to work the mix like a deejay and it's as close as you'll get to old skool classic live peformance and old-skool studio mix protocol.. changing drum & sequencer patterns on the fly, mixing on the fly etc.

I find the biggest stumbling block for noobs wanting to make club music is that they come to the table thinking like a musician and that doesnt work... you need to think more like a deejay, creating a linear mix out of components as if you had 16 turntables.

make sense? noobs go to it thinking like a 'musician' and it usualy comes out sounding like electronic music, not club music

sorry but I would not recommend much of this route personally.

I love the 'bun a few spliffs' advice - as if that would get you to the roots of dance music lol! That will most probably lead you to achieve nothing. If you look at all the successful dance music producers - its easy to tell they have their game tight. You dont have a tigh game if your busy 'bunning spliffs'...

I agree it is useful to analyse the structure of the type of dance music you are looking to make - however for a noob (or a 'pro') I woundnt recommend buying a load of hardware....as a way of getting your head around dance music. I would say almost all dance music is ITB these days.

There is a real difference between listening to dance music and really analyzing it. For example when you are getting into a track you are rarely critically listening to how much reverb there is on the clap for example...or what key the bassline is in and what chords are with it. How much lead in there is for mixing etc etc...

break tracks you like down into the constituant parts and work out what they are doing.

Start by imitating bits that you like from different producers - then start building your own sound as you get more confident.

Dont try to throw too much melody at the dancefloor - look at some of the biggest dance tracks and its basically 1 or 2 really good ideas looped. Look for quality in your sounds over quantity.

Practice practice practice