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How hard is Logic to learn (from a PTHD user)?
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Dirty Halo
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31st October 2008
Old 31st October 2008
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How hard is Logic to learn (from a PTHD user)?

Hey guys,

As you know, I'm putting together a mobile rig, which has led me to Logic for on the road composong (better converters available, better running DAW on native, etc)

My last hurdle of worry is...

How hard is Logic to learn?

I know Pro Tools well and don't feel like spending all my time learning a new DAW, is Logic fairly intuitive or is it a steep learning curve?


Thanks guys! (And thanks for patiently helping me through this new rig)


-Andrews
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31st October 2008
Old 31st October 2008
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I am going to be slammed by the Logic lovers but I just couldn't get it when I tried logic.
Nothing seemed to to be simple especially around the midi routing and workflow setup. I even bought books and user guides to help walk me through the setup and use but it never helped.

I moved to pro tools and was powering with it immediately. I never touched a guide book and rarely ever used the user manual except for understanding elastic audio when it came out and I upgraded to 7.4.

I guess at least it gives you an understanding of the differences in ease of use that I experienced.

I cant comment on any other products as other options as I havent tried them sorry.

Cheers
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BUMMER... I was afraid Logic was a tough learn

Quote:
Originally Posted by bukman View Post
I am going to be slammed by the Logic lovers but I just couldn't get it when I tried logic.
Nothing seemed to to be simple especially around the midi routing and workflow setup. I even bought books and user guides to help walk me through the setup and use but it never helped.

I moved to pro tools and was powering with it immediately. I never touched a guide book and rarely ever used the user manual except for understanding elastic audio when it came out and I upgraded to 7.4.

I guess at least it gives you an understanding of the differences in ease of use that I experienced.

I cant comment on any other products as other options as I havent tried them sorry.

Cheers
That's what I was afraid to hear I already know Pro Tools so well, but in building a MacBook Pro mobile version, I can't find a converter that would be the quality of the Prism Orpheus... and then PT LE doesn't seem to give you as much track count, or plug synths, etc at 24/96... if I'm wrong, I'll GLADLY stick with Pro Tools.

If you have a great interface solution, by all means!


-andrews
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31st October 2008
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I second the tough transition. I got 7 at half price when I bought a PowerBook 3 years ago, thinking I could do without PT for my potable rig - finally broke down and got M-Powered. I can get around in Logic and even upgraded to 8 for collaboration compatibility, but it is just plain awkward for me compared to Pro Tools.

I also have DP5 and will probably upgrade to 6, again for collaboration. I get along a lot better there, though still not like PT. I like to build my session as I go - hard to impossible to do in Logic. Others love Logic and/or DP and hate PT. To each their own, I guess. If I didn't have so much invested in Mac only software, I might be on a PC with Nuendo or Samplitude.
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31st October 2008
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Hey DH

Why not sign up for some tutorials at places like Grooveboxmusic.com (they have pretty good instructional videos on Logic) and see it in action? I think it's probably the best way to find out, short of getting Logic Pro to try out. Definitely beats reading the manual (Logic's manual is quite well-written though, IMHO) I remember the monthly fee being quite reasonable.

And yes...I'm yet another "tried-to-love-Logic-but-went-back-to-PT" guy. Dang, I really wish I could get my head around Logic. But to me, understanding the manual was a breeze, but really getting it to work was a total different thang.
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From what Ive seen 7 was a nightmare forcing you to use the environments thingy for the most basic stuff.

In 8 everythings much more streamlined (im on Cub4, and Logic 8 looks better layed out to me), so your move between that and PT shouldnt be too hard.

You pick up some excellent plugins too.
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Maybe I'm missing some grand features of Logic here, but I don't see it as specifically difficult at all. People were dead afraid of the Environment but I've never really used it that much. Never with Logic 8.

It's a different thing than Pro Tools, but so is everything else as well. I prefer Pro Tools, but that's just my opinion, and I wouldn't want to scare you off from Logic saying it was difficult.

On the other hand I'm nuts. I think there's something cozy about digging into the operation manual as soon as I get a new software that I'm interested in.
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I moved to Logic 8 and didn't find it as difficult (although i am still learning) as people make it seem. In fact, I feel very comfortable with it in a short period of time. If you go to youtube and search for "sflogicninja" one can find many great free tutorials in order to learn faster. IMO when most people say that a DAW "sucks" is because they don't know how to use it thoroughly and haven't made the effort to read the manual. It's kind of like taking a test in school, the ones who prepared will find the test easy. And the one who didn't study will find the test hard. All DAWs basically do the same thing so the hardest part to learning them is finding out where specific functions are located and keeping an open mind to other ways of doing things. Logic 8 is the best $500 dollars I have ever spent in audio.
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to me logic is the most illogical bit of software i have ever used fuuck

i can make my own wavetable synths in reactor, but i cant figure out how to do all the basic MIDI shit in logic that is a breeze to do in cubase. so for me logic is one of those apps ive tryed but will never buy
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31st October 2008
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i went from pt to logic 8 without much hassle.
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i started with logic 8 on mac, after using nuendo on pc

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkmana View Post
Logic 8 is easier to use than previous versions IMHO, and really not hard to learn at all.. though you can get deep and complex if you want to. There are excellent tutorials available over at MacProVideo, and I would in particular recommend buying the Core Logic 8 tutorial if you are thinking of going to Logic -

macProVideo.com - Download Tutorial Video & DVD Training for Logic 101: Core Logic 8

i watched part of the 101 video. it takes a long time to watch that whole thing so I haven't finished it yet.

I found myself skipping backwards sometimes to re-hear instructions after I would pause to try something out/investigate what i just learned. I ended up just going into the manual because it was quicker. Then I realized the video was almost verbatim from the manual... (with the exception of some of the tips / pointers from their personal experience)

MacProVideos are very good tutorials, and I do like how they are making a lot of separate tutorials for the different tools within logic 8

Now I have the manuals within reach of where I sit. The manuals are massive BUT well written and well organized.

still learning and not an expert by any means.
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It will be easier if you either take my class at UCLA Extension or hire me privately.
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Andrews,

Don't hesitate to get into Logic 8. I switched from BlowTools LE after 9 years. I learned Logic 8 fairly easily. It is a great program and I am SOOOOO happy I made the switch. Go for it, you wont regret it...
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Dirty Halo
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31st October 2008
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Thanks guys...

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Sounds like 'd be in for some version of a learning curve, I was secretly hoping that if I know Pro Tools as well as I do, Logic would basically be the same , uh, logic, when it comes to how audio is set up, midi is set up, etc.

Most of you seem to express some level of difficulty, but sounds like it is worth it... the bummer part is, I'm much more interested in diving in and making music, then re-educating myself on just another piece of software.

But, thank you guys! Very helpful, as always!


-Andrews
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I just did almost exactly what you are doing & it's not that bad a learning curve.

It took me a couple of sittings to 'get' Logic 8 basics but you are def 9/10 of the way up the curve by being a power user of protools. Also depends if you want to be as deep on it as protools - I just use it as a sketch pad/& mostly got it for my wife (an ex dj) who finds protools + outboard + mixer + modular synths etc. a bit too daunting.

One tip is buy it from the people you buy your laptop and ask for it pre installed. The software with all the content takes about a day to load from DVDs otherwise

:J
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something usefull:

watch some logicninja videos on youtube from time to time. he is pointing directly to the important things if you allready are an advanced user.

YouTube - SFLogicNinja's Channel
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Andrews


i'd be glad to get you started on logic. only thing is :I'm in the netherlands.
So If you're get the chance: stop on by. In a few months , the toft would also be there.
So you could feel at home a little bit.

greets
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It´s not any harder to learn than any other daw IMHO, and it shares alot of the concepts like mix and edit view etc. The biggest differences lies in some of the editors which can be ignored if you want to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy No View Post
I just did almost exactly what you are doing & it's not that bad a learning curve.

It took me a couple of sittings to 'get' Logic 8 basics but you are def 9/10 of the way up the curve by being a power user of protools. Also depends if you want to be as deep on it as protools - I just use it as a sketch pad/& mostly got it for my wife (an ex dj) who finds protools + outboard + mixer + modular synths etc. a bit too daunting.

One tip is buy it from the people you buy your laptop and ask for it pre installed. The software with all the content takes about a day to load from DVDs otherwise

:J


What computer are you using? It took about 55 minutes to install on a quad PPC 2.5 G5. Which is about 3 or 4 years old.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Sounds like 'd be in for some version of a learning curve, I was secretly hoping that if I know Pro Tools as well as I do, Logic would basically be the same , uh, logic, when it comes to how audio is set up, midi is set up, etc.

Most of you seem to express some level of difficulty, but sounds like it is worth it... the bummer part is, I'm much more interested in diving in and making music, then re-educating myself on just another piece of software.

But, thank you guys! Very helpful, as always!


-Andrews
Although logic may be a bit of a transition, once you get it, and once you browse through some of the advanced key commands and functions, you'll start to say to yourself: "wow, I can do THAT? COOL!". At least that's what happened to me...
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first let me say that i'm a logic user and am editing and mixing an album in it atm

i think more than anything you need to decide if you want to invest time, etc in logic knowing that apple is behind it

if you don't mind waiting 8 months to a year for an update and maybe several years for a significant upgrade then go for it knowing that this is indeed the case

as logic stands at the moment, it seems the guys are trying very hard to get it into a good state and there have been massive improvements but there are still significant issues that remain unfixed and you really have to wait a long time before they release something that fixes it. note that many of these issue were new to V8

i love their stuff but to be honest i'm losing faith in apple especially after them removing FW from the (not so entry level price wise) macbook
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I use both DP and Logic8. I personally think that DP is a lot easier if you're coming from PT particularly in the sound editing area. I will say that I now feel comfortable going back and forth between L8 and DP. This was NOT the case with previous versions of Logic which I found maddeningly convoluted and, dare I say it, illogical.
So all that being said I would have to go with Logic at this point for the go to on the road composing tool since it has all of the instruments and plugins built in. Be prepared to have an external drive to install the full boat of loops etc. that come with L8 unless you have a really big internal HD on your Macbook.

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What I found about Logic was it took me quite a while to learn to set up things in terms of routing and external instruments. Once I had my templates set up the way I wanted them, things got much easier. But that initial setup was a headache in comparison to the other DAW I use (Live).

-D
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I will say that Logic 8 now has a bunch of different templates that you can choose (for electronic, hip-hop, recording specific...), so you don't have to waste much time for internal synths. For midi parts, once you learn how to make a midi connection, it's easy. And that takes about a minute or two.

The great thing about Logic is that those templates actually have different pages that are optimized for specific tasks, allowing you to really concentrate on recording, mixing, writing midi parts, and a bunch of really awesome views.

If anyone has used Protools, Logic shouldn't be that much harder. It's way more flexible in the midi dept.

Can we ask for people who have difficulties to post what their problems actually are, that is making Logic difficult to use. I'm just curious and interested to hear. Maybe we can help too.
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DH,
I cannot tell you how happy I am that Digi is finally bringing the midi in PT up to par. I'll be launching Logic much less often now. My only regret is that I didn't sell Logic before Apple slashed the price in half!

As you already know though, the bummer with PTLE is that you're severely limited in the quality of interfaces to choose from for your mobile rig.
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What's the difference... ?

Thanks for the input guys.

Someone recommended buying a computer with it pre-installed... what is the mai difference between Logic Pro and Logic Express?

From what I've tried to read, it is just the lack of MainStage and something else... I'm just writing and recording tacks for electronica (no live performing, etc.)... are there any significant loses with Express in that case? Less synths, plugs, etc?

Thanks all!

-Andrews
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If you can use an HD system then you will be able to use Logic without much trouble.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Thanks for the input guys.

Someone recommended buying a computer with it pre-installed... what is the mai difference between Logic Pro and Logic Express?

From what I've tried to read, it is just the lack of MainStage and something else... I'm just writing and recording tacks for electronica (no live performing, etc.)... are there any significant loses with Express in that case? Less synths, plugs, etc?

Thanks all!

-Andrews
Make sure you get the full Logic Pro because it has many more plugins and additional features that make it worth it.
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Logic Express - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can't see why one wouldn't go with full version...

I have never used ProTools. But, Logic 8 is pretty easy to use.

Things that are hard:
multi timbural AU (still)
Mapping midi (converting incoming CC XYZ to outgoing CC ABC on a per track basis)
Per track midi learn (assign CC to cutoff on AU VI 1 and sometimes it will still control cutoff on AU VI 2 if you use the same knob for both au etc)
Sometimes bouncing to mp3 just doesn't work--actually, frequently
Patches for outboard midi are a pia

Something else that is a pia:
playing back in realtime: uses all cores
bounce: uses one core

But, setting up AU + x outboard midi, recording playback = dead easy. Automation REALLY easy.

Setting up new presets, adding things to media lib etc...easy
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