Stretch tuning VS. Equal Temperament Rhodes.

[sctt_stone]

OK so I am trying to really get my Rhodes in tune and it is making my head hurt.
Its almost perfect across the middle three octaves but there are a couple of notes that when I play chords spread across octaves make me cringe even though they should be in tune.
Then I read something about Equal Temperament and that made my headache much worse.
Anyone have advice on tuning one of these puppies properly?
Stretch tuning? Equal?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

Stretch tuning? Equal?

I think it's best to just tune your Rhodes so every note correctly tunes to a simple guitar tuner.
It may be advanced to think about equal temperament and stretch tuning, b ut you can't really go wrong if the keyboard is intune with a guitar tuner at a multitude of pitches.

[Bob Olhsson]

Only synthesizers are really equal tempered. Stretch tuning is the classic solution for pianos that will be played with other instruments.

[AnalogBrain]

I have been tuning my Rhodes this week as well. I decided to go with the stretch tuning. it does sound much better with other instruments. I have noticed that the bottom octave pulls pretty sharp when you strike a note and let it sustain. I understand this was is a common problem. it don't bother me much because I only play the bottom octave staccato for bass lines.

Have checked out this site?
The Super Site - FenderRhodes.com

Here is some info on the tuning...
Service Manual

Hope that helps!
-Neil

[Justynfromnz]

I had a similar tuning Conundrum with a cp70...ended up just staying away from the extreme octaves...would stretch tuning have helped me out? i have a peterson, could i have tuned it myself? We had 2 Piano tuners come in and it was still funky...cheerio

[sctt_stone]

So did yo just tune octaves then?

Originally Posted by AnalogBrain

I have been tuning my Rhodes this week as well. I decided to go with the stretch tuning. it does sound much better with other instruments. I have noticed that the bottom octave pulls pretty sharp when you strike a note and let it sustain. I understand this was is a common problem. it don't bother me much because I only play the bottom octave staccato for bass lines.

Have checked out this site?
The Super Site - FenderRhodes.com

Here is some info on the tuning...
Service Manual

Hope that helps!
-Neil

[rjd2]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I think it's best to just tune your Rhodes so every note correctly tunes to a simple guitar tuner.
It may be advanced to think about equal temperament and stretch tuning, b ut you can't really go wrong if the keyboard is intune with a guitar tuner at a multitude of pitches.

that's what he did, and it did go wrong.

i do rhodes(and anythign else, acoustic piano, harpsichord, etc) like this: take the octave from C2 to C3. do this to 440. basically, do the rest of the instrument by octaves/beats or dissonance, however you like to see it. done. good luck.

also, you know that you can tune the lower 1/3 of a rhodes by physically pulling the tine above the tone fork and sliding the wire manually, r ight? saves time.

[sctt_stone]

Hey thanks for the feedback. I have been taking the harp upright and tuning from there. I spent a couple of hours on it this morning tuning chords by ear.
Its really like tuning a guitar with crap intonation you have to tune chords to get it to sound right. Or at least I do but I am super picky about pitch. Funny thing is the F# notes in two octaves were on pitch according to the tuner but in fact were flat in relation to the rest of the notes in there respective octaves, I had to adjust the notes accordingly.
Also the pitch changes when the harp is in position and struck by the hammer as opposed to up and plucked by hand.
Damn thing is a PAINNN. But it sounds so sweet when it is right!!
I have a 75 Mark 1. First two months that CBS owned them. The hammers are half wood, half plastic.
Oh yeah the one area I can not get in tune is the lowest two octaves the notes all have a funky beating oscillating thing that makes it hard for me to hear the pitch. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by rjd2

that's what he did, and it did go wrong.

i do rhodes(and anythign else, acoustic piano, harpsichord, etc) like this: take the octave from C2 to C3. do this to 440. basically, do the rest of the instrument by octaves/beats or dissonance, however you like to see it. done. good luck.

also, you know that you can tune the lower 1/3 of a rhodes by physically pulling the tine above the tone fork and sliding the wire manually, r ight? saves time.

[Quince]

Originally Posted by sctt_stone

Oh yeah the one area I can not get in tune is the lowest two octaves the notes all have a funky beating oscillating thing that makes it hard for me to hear the pitch. Any suggestions?

Thought I'd ring in here... The Rhodes Super Site is a really usefull tool for finding out what exactly can be modded and bettered with your Rhodes... If you're really into the instrument I suppose a novice can spend weeks perfecting it. Considering you have the patience

But anyway, the beating oscillating thing... As far as I get it, the stretch tuning is supposed to take care of the beating, so maybe you should play around with the tuning a bit more to get it right. However, I do beleive there's certain other aspects of the Rhodes at play here that could be the cause of your trouble. For example the allignment of the tines, and the action of the Rhodes can cause problems like the one you're describing as well... I'm not a real expert in this field, but it might be worth checking if you can fix any allignment problems, try tuning it again, and maybe you'll be able to get it right.

Be sure to check out the Rhodes Super Site (FenderRhodes.com - The Rhodes Super Site) as it has a LOT of info on both subjects, as well as a 'chart' for stretch tuning your Rhodes.

I've got an equal tuned Rhodes, and I'm really curious what a stretch tuned one sounds like, so if there's anyone with some audio... PM me or post it here!

Thanks!

Oh and by the way, I'm batteling some double striking problems at the moment but after that I'm thinking of stretch tuning my Rhodes... If I'm going to, I'll be sure to post some before-after stuff here

[lain2097]

Stretch tuning is a compromise between having wide fifths and keeping the unison harmonics in reasonable check. The longer the string length the more "true" its even (and odd) harmonics get. In general smaller grands are almost always tuned to stretch. Even to the point that larger ones like over 2m are still tuned that way as to not confuse.

Technically guitars too are not really true equal temperament because it's mostly dependent on the fret / build quality.

I doubt a Rhodes would sound much deferent because there's no string tension or body resonance to work against and shift the harmonics around. It's a tine after all. Something like a CP-80 would be interesting.

[golden beers]

this is how i tune all my gears

ps in advance: i'm so sorry....

[lain2097]

Man some ppl have ballz

[kafka]

Originally Posted by lain2097

Stretch tuning is a compromise between having wide fifths and keeping the unison harmonics in reasonable check. The longer the string length the more "true" its even (and odd) harmonics get. In general smaller grands are almost always tuned to stretch. Even to the point that larger ones like over 2m are still tuned that way as to not confuse.
...
I doubt a Rhodes would sound much deferent because there's no string tension or body resonance to work against and shift the harmonics around. It's a tine after all.

This matches my understanding of the situation. One doesn't desire to use a stretch tuning; it's a compromise that enables the harmonics of lower notes to match up with either the harmonics or the fundamentals of higher notes. It's a "stretch", because the effective length of the string is shorter for the harmonic is higher than the fundamental, and so the harmonics are slightly higher pitched than they should be.

It surprises me that this would be an issue on a Rhodes, because there aren't any strings. Of course, I'm speaking entirely from a theoretical understanding of the subject, so I may be totally wrong on this. There may be practical reasons for stretch tuning a Rhodes (such as matching a real piano), or just because our ears have become accustomed to it on keyboard instruments. There may be something about the physics of the tines that I don't understand. Given that it's free on one end, though, and that they tend to have a fairly limited spectrum, I'm surprised that this is an issue.

I just find it odd, given my understanding of the origins, that one would have to apply stretch tuning to a Rhodes.