Starting to lust over a modular.. Point of no return?

[jonnypowell]

I really want to start building an entry level modular synth.
Just wondering if it will consume me and I'll spend all of my time making bleeps instead of writing tracks, or will I actually find practical uses for it?
I want to expand my analogue horizons, as I feel slightly limited by the standard 2 oscillator, 2 envelope, 1 LFO set-up.
Obviously this comes down to the individual but I just want to get a general consensus from you modular users out there..??

[Alien Tech]

I have to exhibit a bit of self discipline when working with modulars. Its very easy to get lost in the sound creation process, when you should be focusing on the song. If you go the modular route, try and have an idea of what you want the sound to be, and figure your way through the patch until you achieve that sound. Otherwise you can get lost in the "What will this do? What will that do?" rut. At least thats how it is for me.

Also, once you start making a modular, you'll notice that there's always one or two more modules that you need. They can get pretty expensive really fast.

As distracting and awesomely tweakable as they are, there are a lot of cool things that you can do with a modular that you can't with other synths. You just have to generally know what kind of sound you want, or you can end up with a lot of musically useless noise.

[tribeofenki]

@ Jonny: Same Here In my case, I have 'seen' some Doepfer in action and...
I think that the starting point is when you ask yourself: What if ? If I could add a VCO or Arpeggiator and so on ??

Feeding your imagintion is a must...

@ Alien: Agree. There must be a method, some kind of path you have to follow. A modular way of constructing sounds, more for an engineer than for an artist... a technician, in an artistic sense.

[rjd2]

ive got a smaller modular(20 units or so), and i RARELY go to it when recording as a "sound source". i do, however, go it as a processing source for other things. i'd say 85% of the time i've clocked on it was as an exploratory/learning piece, i.e. twiddling knobs. its fun, but i would steer clear if you are looking for a workhorse instrument in the writing/recording dept.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by rjd2

i'd say 85% of the time i've clocked on it was as an exploratory/learning piece, i.e. twiddling knobs. its fun, but i would steer clear if you are looking for a workhorse instrument in the writing/recording dept.

I'd say this is perfect advice. There is nothing at all wrong with geeking out with a synth for fun... but if you want to just get down to making songs, sometimes a modular can be overkill / time consuming. However, I'm also of the opinion that a nice patch can lead to the creation of a whole song so...

[OurDarkness]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

However, I'm also of the opinion that a nice patch can lead to the creation of a whole song so...

Well said. This is one of the most basic and fundamentals truths in electronic music.

[monads]

It is easy to get lost, but fun at the same time experimenting. Even when you have a sense of direction, it's easy to get lost by the "what if I patch this" factor creating a different sound you like but doesn't fit in with your current song! You either have to record it, or take notes to creat the patch again. I guess I need to practice more discipline. But I can't help myself.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by OurDarkness

Well said. This is one of the most basic and fundamentals truths in electronic music.

+1
I make a new patch for each song anyway..

also it is very flexible. you can buy or sell modules, to get different functions and tones. polyphonic is certainly possible.

the new stuff from Plan B looks tasty.. mmm

[The_Crooked_Man]

Originally Posted by monads

You either have to record it, or take notes to creat the patch again. I guess I need to practice more discipline.

Polaroids/digital cameras are a synthesists best friend (I don't have a modular but I take pictures and lable my synths that don't have patch memory.)

Originally Posted by jsrockit

However, I'm also of the opinion that a nice patch can lead to the creation of a whole song so...

+1 Nearly all of my tracks start out in the sound creating process. God damn, I need a modular!

[space2012]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

I really want to start building an entry level modular synth.
Just wondering if it will consume me and I'll spend all of my time making bleeps instead of writing tracks, or will I actually find practical uses for it?
I want to expand my analogue horizons, as I feel slightly limited by the standard 2 oscillator, 2 envelope, 1 LFO set-up.
Obviously this comes down to the individual but I just want to get a general consensus from you modular users out there..??

to make songs you only need a sampler,
and grab pre mastered sounds, from every track you can get.
solo sounds from here and there.
done that, been there.
its easy, its fun, but suddently you hit an invisible wall.

to me the next step for music, was to recreate the whole process.
1000x harder.

i had an arp2600 "semi modular" "small modular with a matrix", and you could get lost pretty easy there.
searching for that magic sound.
i decided to sell becouse #1. repairs were eating my wallet. #2. was not 100% the sound i was looking for.
personally i dont like oscillators that are too unstable, that makes harder to create diferent personality/colored sounds,
i dont like to end up with almost the same sound every time you tweak for hours.
i like roland juno-60 that has pure&stable oscillators, when you move an slider, makes a totally diferent sound.

my advice its to hear every synth demo you can, and find the synth that makes the sound you like.

not the synth that fits your pocket.

for example moog minimoog has pure & stable oscillators but i dont like most of the sounds.

in modulars i like the Roland System-100m sounds sounds pretty stable, pure & diferent.
and the Bell Labs Hal Alles Synth too.
but thats me.
theres lots of youtube videos out there, mostly recreating the moroder - i feel love- donna summer song.

[chrisso]

Unstable oscillators has more to do with the particular synth than the model IMO.
I had a 2600 and the oscillators were fine, my 100M had unstable oscillators though.
Luck of the draw.
I also disagree with the doom laden comments about getting lost in a modular.
I used them for ten years in the fast moving process of film composing. Up against a deadline.
It's the same discipline as working with a standard analogue synth, the only difference is you are using patch chords.
So you want a bass sound? Patch a couple of oscillators into a low pass filter, add an envelope and a vca and off you go. Why would you get lost?

When composing I used my modulars as a flexible analogue mono synth.
On the days I wasn't working to a deadline I could spend hours patching, twiddling and creating. Recording or sampling the results and learning what the modular was capable of so I could find sounds quickly next time I was up against a deadline.
The biggest mistake people make is to order at great cost a 24 module system.
It's like starting a studio from scratch, buying 10 hardware synths, 10 plug-ins and a whole new DAW and computer set-up, then expecting to make great music on day two.
A basic and very usable modular system is:
2 x Osc
1 x LPF
1 x Envelope
1 x VCA
1 x LFO
1 x Audio input of some kind.
Perhaps a mixer if you aren't going the banana cable route.
I would suggest exploring that set-up for a while and adding to it with the benefit of knowledge and experience.

[Coyoteous]

That's a big question. I agree with chrisso and a lot of the other advice given. I think it really depends on what kind of music and production you are doing. A small modular makes a good universal monosynth for leads, basslines, sequences, etc.

Do you have any other analog or VA? I performed live for a number of years with an OB-8/DSX, OB-X, Mini Moog, 2 x OB SEM, and 2 x ARP 2600. My duo partner was on a 2600, Moog 12 modular and a large Emu modular. We also both play flute.

Anyway, we had a pretty good almost all analog thing going. MIDI, sampling and digital effects were relatively new and we evolved into those - DX, Emulators, drum machines, etc. having become somewhat bored with all-analog.

That changed our direction - some better, some worse. These days, 99% of those once fresh electronic sounds are beaten-to-death cliches, IMO. I still love the analog, but I have to remind myself that a lot of that is nostalgia.

OTOH, modulars are very cool and fun! You should get one if you're really interested. You'll just have to use it and see if and where you can integrate into what you're already doing, or maybe you're the next Tomita or Carlos.

You might want to spend some time with a VA modular first. The Nord modular 2 demo is a good place to start. If you have any OC, ADD or ADHD tendencies, or are "chronic collector" - maybe you should stay away.

- good luck!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Do you have any other analog or VA?

I think Jonny is pretty synth experienced.

Regarding cliched sounds, don't forget the processing power of a modular too.
Of course regular synths often have an audio input, but I find the modular architecture preferable for audio processing, at least for me.
Over the years I've recorded a ton of guitars and drums through my various modular systems.

[Haven]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Unstable oscillators has more to do with the particular synth than the model IMO.
I had a 2600 and the oscillators were fine, my 100M had unstable oscillators though.
Luck of the draw.
I also disagree with the doom laden comments about getting lost in a modular.
I used them for ten years in the fast moving process of film composing. Up against a deadline.
It's the same discipline as working with a standard analogue synth, the only difference is you are using patch chords.
So you want a bass sound? Patch a couple of oscillators into a low pass filter, add an envelope and a vca and off you go. Why would you get lost?

great post! I totally agree. My limited experience with my new little eurorack modular is, If you understand subractive synthesis it is the same. Creating a standard patch (lead, bass, etc) is fast. Doing other things can also be fast, or take a long as you want. the important part seems to be have a goal in mind and learn your modules. there are plenty of various tones avaialble and extra features or unexpected functions. it is important to learn these in your modules so you can use them later. For example, a lot of the Doepfer modules easily distort their inputs. This is by design, knowing how each module reacts to its input level can help with your sound design.

You don't have to use the modular as part of the writing process if you find it distracting, you could use it for final sound design after the music is written with soft synths for example.

Just keep in mind there is a wide variety of tones in each module type, VCO, VCF, VCA will sound different per manufacturer, and per module. If you want a particular sound do lots of research before buying. Just because a filer is "Moog ladder based" does not mean it sounds like a Moog. If the manufacturer says it is a near exact clone of the Moog 904 (MOTM) filter, then it sounds like a Moog filter.

Also, for me once I got a modular I started to realise it is pointless for me to buy any more mono synths. Why bother when I could spend the money on modules and create any tone I want? do I want the Arp filter sound with 3 CEM 3340 oscilators (Pro-One, SH101 etc)? then its STG Post Lawsuit Lopass with 3 Doepfer A-111. what if I want a Moog filter sound instead? MOTM-1490 will do the trick. want snappier envelopes? VCA's with nice distortion? VCA's with no distortion? see how people start buying lots of modules?

On the inverse, without a modular, that is a lot of mono synths, each for their individual special trait, but forever forced into using their VCO, or VCF etc.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I think Jonny is pretty synth experienced.

Regarding cliched sounds, don't forget the processing power of a modular too.
Of course regular synths often have an audio input, but I find the modular architecture preferable for audio processing, at least for me.
Over the years I've recorded a ton of guitars and drums through my various modular systems.

- not forgotten. In fact, that's probably the main rational reason I have my analog modular(s). My newer system is to the point that I'm going to start selling off my vintage gear - all listed above plus another parts 2600, 2 more parts SEM's, P5, Xpander, Sonic 6 and several other lesser pieces.

You can see I'm OC, ADD and a "chronic collector." I'm keeping my sequencers and a SEM or two. I'll be VCO and polyphony light, but okay, otherwise - should pay my mortgage for a while, too. The polyphony thing seems like the hard nut to crack these days - VA? I dunno...

Don't get me wrong about cliched sounds. I think any meaningful discussion of elemental sounds and synthesis techniques should be in the context of form, which itself can just as easily fall victim to repetition of any number of historical overuses - sorry to hijack. Oh, and I'd suggest two envelope generators.

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Unstable oscillators has more to do with the particular synth than the model IMO.
I had a 2600 and the oscillators were fine, my 100M had unstable oscillators though.
Luck of the draw.
I also disagree with the doom laden comments about getting lost in a modular.
I used them for ten years in the fast moving process of film composing. Up against a deadline.
It's the same discipline as working with a standard analogue synth, the only difference is you are using patch chords.
So you want a bass sound? Patch a couple of oscillators into a low pass filter, add an envelope and a vca and off you go. Why would you get lost?

When composing I used my modulars as a flexible analogue mono synth.
On the days I wasn't working to a deadline I could spend hours patching, twiddling and creating. Recording or sampling the results and learning what the modular was capable of so I could find sounds quickly next time I was up against a deadline.
The biggest mistake people make is to order at great cost a 24 module system.
It's like starting a studio from scratch, buying 10 hardware synths, 10 plug-ins and a whole new DAW and computer set-up, then expecting to make great music on day two.
A basic and very usable modular system is:
2 x Osc
1 x LPF
1 x Envelope
1 x VCA
1 x LFO
1 x Audio input of some kind.
Perhaps a mixer if you aren't going the banana cable route.
I would suggest exploring that set-up for a while and adding to it with the benefit of knowledge and experience.

I already have a Jupiter-8,Moog Source & Mopho, so I already have that basic set-up at my disposal..
I basically want to create a more esoteric system, but nothing I'm going to get bogged down in.
I'm swinging heavily towards a dotcom system.
The only problem is - I have a VERY addictive personality, so this could be a dangerous step to take!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

My newer system is to the point that I'm going to start selling off my vintage gear -

Originally Posted by Haven

Also, for me once I got a modular I started to realise it is pointless for me to buy any more mono synths. Why bother when I could spend the money on modules and create any tone I want?

Yes, I lightened my load once I decided on the best modular set-up for me.
I kept a few synths I thought were special, which were also the synths I tended to use a lot:
OB 4 Voice, Steiner Parker Synthacon.
One day I'll add an SCI P5 perhaps, to cover the analogue poly angle

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

That's a big question. I agree with chrisso and a lot of the other advice given. I think it really depends on what kind of music and production you are doing. A small modular makes a good universal monosynth for leads, basslines, sequences, etc.

Do you have any other analog or VA? I performed live for a number of years with an OB-8/DSX, OB-X, Mini Moog, 2 x OB SEM, and 2 x ARP 2600. My duo partner was on a 2600, Moog 12 modular and a large Emu modular. We also both play flute.

Anyway, we had a pretty good almost all analog thing going. MIDI, sampling and digital effects were relatively new and we evolved into those - DX, Emulators, drum machines, etc. having become somewhat bored with all-analog.

That changed our direction - some better, some worse. These days, 99% of those once fresh electronic sounds are beaten-to-death cliches, IMO. I still love the analog, but I have to remind myself that a lot of that is nostalgia.

OTOH, modulars are very cool and fun! You should get one if you're really interested. You'll just have to use it and see if and where you can integrate into what you're already doing, or maybe you're the next Tomita or Carlos.

You might want to spend some time with a VA modular first. The Nord modular 2 demo is a good place to start. If you have any OC, ADD or ADHD tendencies, or are "chronic collector" - maybe you should stay away.

- good luck!

Yeah - I used to have a Nord G2, but had to sell it, because it was part owned between myself and my ex-production partner.
We sold all our shared gear when we went our own seperate ways..
I loved building patches from scratch, but found the Nord sound a bit sterile.. I've owned a Nord Lead 3 as well, and the sound was quite similar.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

I basically want to create a more esoteric system
I'm swinging heavily towards a dotcom system.

Then I would choose a system that sported much more esoteric modules than Dot Com.
Serge comes immediately to mind. Of course Buchla 200e $$$

Doepfer have a pretty decent esoteric line-up.
I wanted esoteric and chose Modcan/Cyndustries/Serge as a basis, with added Fenix and Buchla200.

The only problem is - I have a VERY addictive personality, so this could be a dangerous step to take!

The only thing I would advise is to learn a few modules at a time. And learn them inside and out before you buy more. It's easy to swamp yourself with modules and only ever learn one or two uses for each modules.

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Then I would choose a system that sported much more esoteric modules than Dot Com.
Serge comes immediately to mind. Of course Buchla 200e $$$

Doepfer have a pretty decent esoteric line-up.
I wanted esoteric and chose Modcan/Cyndustries/Serge as a basis, with added Fenix and Buchla200.



The only thing I would advise is to learn a few modules at a time. And learn them inside and out before you buy more. It's easy to swamp yourself with modules and only ever learn one or two uses for each modules.

Yeah - I was waiting for someone to say that.. I'll add more esoteric modules from other manufacturers, but start with the basic dotcom set-up.

The Serge looks great, but very expensive..

I'll def only buy a few modules at a time.. I'm well aware of the pitfalls of buying too much at once. It can be very over-whelming and it takes a long time to get to know every piece.
I'd start with around 10 modules or so..

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

I'll add more esoteric modules from other manufacturers,

Don't try and mix banana with jack though.
It's doable, but in my experience rather painful.
Choose the connectivity you want to go forward with. In the case of Dot Com; 1/4" jack?
1/4" to mini jack is very easy, but also ties up converter panels or special cables. Not a huge deal, but worth thinking about.

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Don't try and mix banana with jack though.
It's doable, but in my experience rather painful.
Choose the connectivity you want to go forward with. In the case of Dot Com; 1/4" jack?
1/4" to mini jack is very easy, but also ties up converter panels or special cables. Not a huge deal, but worth thinking about.

OK - so what other modules are 1/4" then?
I'd prefer not to have to go to mini jack..

Thanks for your help!

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

OK - so what other modules are 1/4" then?
I'd prefer not to have to go to mini jack..

Thanks for your help!

Modcan, Cyndustries, STG Soundlabs and MOTM all do 1/4" modules.

If you bought the Oscillator aid modules from dotcom you at least would'nt have to worry about patching everytime you wanted to change waveforms. There was a pic of a really cool dot com system that a GS member posted in my big modular thread that was normalled to run like a 'regular' mono synth but still fully patchable. Might be just the ticket to keep you from getting 'bogged down'.

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Modcan, Cyndustries, STG Soundlabs and MOTM all do 1/4" modules.

If you bought the Oscillator aid modules from dotcom you at least would'nt have to worry about patching everytime you wanted to change waveforms. There was a pic of a really cool dot com system that a GS member posted in my big modular thread that was normalled to run like a 'regular' mono synth but still fully patchable. Might be just the ticket to keep you from getting 'bogged down'.

Funny you mention that! I was at his house yesterday getting my Moog Source fixed, which is what inspired me..
His name here is triez I think..? Steve as I know him.. He does all my synth work. Very good tech!
Anyway, he highly recommends the dotcom system, and he really knows his shit.
I'd love to have one set-up like that as well.

[chrisso]

Yeah, there's quite a few 1/4" systems.
Also, a lot of the vintage systems are 1/4", so that gives you the option to pick up a small cab of 70's modules sometime.
1/4" to mini jack is really not a bad option. I just find the mini jack based systems a little on the fiddly side.

[rachel]

I am very happy with my A100 Mini System. I got it and dived right in with it and
it is easy to produce simple or complex sounds. I can experiment with it or do more
conventional things. It is enough of a modular to cover a lot of ground. I consider the
A100 Mini equivalent to a standard Roland 100M with the basic soundset modules.

So the A100 Mini works just as well as any 2 oscillator mono synth but with extra patch points
and flexibility. I also have a G6 frame to fill up with modules next year when I expand it.

If you want a smallish modular, the Mini is great and as I said a good replacement for
the 100M.


rachel

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by rachel

So the A100 Mini works just as well as any 2 oscillator mono synth but with extra patch points
and flexibility.

I think it's useful to think outside the mini mono synth box though, especially if you are after esoteric sounds.

[jonnypowell]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I think it's useful to think outside the mini mono synth box though, especially if you are after esoteric sounds.

That I am.. I'd also like to use it for bread & butter type sounds as well.
But I think that's a given..

[our_swimmer]

Originally Posted by jonnypowell

I basically want to create a more esoteric system, but nothing I'm going to get bogged down in.

May I suggest a semi-modular, like the Evenfall Mini-Modular, Anyware SEMtex XL or Cwejman S1 Mk2? The connections for a functioning monosynth are already in place, but they offer plenty of patching options for experimentation and interfacing with another modular or semi-modular rig. So, you can always fall back on the "preset" sound and adjust it from there. Voila, you have a cool modular that will grow with your studio, but still work on its own and interface readily with someone else's gear - they even have robust, integrated MIDI interfaces.

You can get the Evenfall for 1100 USD, give or take, which I'd say competes with a similarly specified modular.

[Beermaster]

Modular Synths ? Never seen the point them myself.