First Analog Synth (not VA)?

[Eric J]

OK, this is a tough decision. I'm trying to research what might be a good first real analog synth to add to my setup. I have had several VA's including Roland JP-8000, Nord Lead and Novation VA's and sold them all.

Right now I'm mostly software, but I find a huge portion of my sounds with software analog emulations from Gmedia and Arturia. I figure it may be time to add a modern real analog synth to my setup. I've been kind of leaning towards the Prophet 08, but I also find myself using my Moog emulations more than anything else, so I thought maybe it'd be better to add a real Moog.

Here is the scenario:

Budget: $2,000 - $2,500

Needs/Wants: Bass, Pads and/or Leads. Would like polyphonic for pads, but considering monophonic, if the tradeoff's are right.

Considering (in no particular order):

1. Moog Little Phatty.
   Pros: Moog Sound
   Cons: Monophonic, so cannot use for analog pads.
2. DSI Prophet 08 Rack
   Pros: Polyphonic
   Cons: Reports seem to indicate that its not good at getting that "moog"-y bass sound
3. DSI MoPho
   Pros: Cheap
   Cons: Monophonic, lack of knobs would seem to indicate a menu-driven interface for programmability.
4. Moog Voyager
   Pros: Moog Sound, seems like every parameter has a dedicated knob.
   Cons: Monophonic and a bit expensive for a mono synth
5. (Unknown) Would consider any other synth here that might be able to better meet my needs with in the specified parameters.

So what would you do in my situation? Which one of these do you think would be a good addition for a first analog synth?

[kingofswing]

First off...

The Prophet 08 is a superb sounding modern day poly analog synth. It was NOT designed to sound like a Moog, so technically speaking it cannot be a 'con' if it does not do Moog style bass - it was not designed to. It does very good Prophet bass, of course all analog, and goes beyond for pads and juicy leads, and more.

Secondly...

I can highly recommend you the Prophet 08 or the might Andy A6. As for mono Vs poly synths, thats upto you and your needs. The LP is also wonderful and I love using mine.

[Jazzpunk]

One of the problem's with these kinds of decisions is that the synths being compared are quite complimentary. If one synth could handle all the duties you've listed for every possible musical scenario, there'd be no Electronica section on Gearslutz!

I know where you can get a great deal on a mint condition Voyager if that's the choice you make.

(note: All proceeds go to the 'Fund Jazzpunk's Modular Foundation' a non-prophet charity I've set up for myself.)

[chrisso]

Is the 'Moog' sound that important for bass?
I've briefly owned a Memory Moog, never owned another Moog and have been very happy with my bass sounds.
It depends on the music I suppose.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Is the 'Moog' sound that important for bass?
I've briefly owned a Memory Moog, never owned another Moog and have been very happy with my bass sounds.
It depends on the music I suppose.

I know from previous comments that you're not much of a Moog fan. Just curious what your go to synths for bass sounds are?

[SWAN808]

How about a Little phatty - then a Prophet 08 rack?

Fact is - one synth will rarely cover all the bases

[imaketunes]

Go for a Prophet 08.

Mono synth's can do two thing's (bass and leads... clearly) and the prophet does so much more.

Personaly I have been sampling my little phatty and using it as a pad.... sound's sooo cool if you modulate it right but I would love a polyphonic analogue synth.

On the other hand the prophet does not give you moog bass (apparently) so this all depends on what is most important. Im saving up for a prophet myself!

[technog0d]

If i had one choice for an analog it would be the Alesis Andromeda. My one choice for a VA would be the Virus TI. I have a lot of synths, but i feel those give alot of diversity for each single synth. I love my Moog LP II, but it is limited to mono sounds. I do love how simple the LPII is. It's very intuitive, because of it's simplicity. If you want the Moog sounds, albeit more complex, then the Voyager is also a great synth. Just my two cents... You really should try them all and see which ones you like. I would add one more to the bunch... Anything made by Studio Electronics. Great stuff. Good luck on your hunt

[cornutt]

+1 on the Andromeda. That's what I'd get if I had that kind of money to spend.

[Eric J]

Thanks for the responses. Quite a few diverse opinions out there! I went the GC tonight and played around with the LP and the Voyager. I wasn't as impressed with the LP as I thought I would be. It sounds great, but I felt that the Voyager sounded a little better, maybe due to the extra OSC. In addition, I thought that the LP interface was a bit fiddly compared to the Voyager. Presing buttons to change the function of the knobs was a bit of a hassle. That XY pad in the Voyager also adds a new element of tweakability, very fun to play around with. I have to admit that I was really impressed with the build quality of the Voyager, where as the LP did not feel as solid. Those Moog knobs just have this "tweak me" type of feel to them. Big and solid, it was very, very nice!

Unfortunately, they did not have a Prophet there that I could play around with, so I'll have to rely on the demos and youtbe videos to get a feel for that synth. I think after reading everyone's opinions that its is probably a good idea to go for the Prophet 08 first and then compliment that with the Voyager next followed by the Virus TI. I think the Prophet will probably be able to meet some immediate needs for an analog synth that can do great pads as still function as a bass synth if need be. Once I pick up the Voyager, I'll probably use that for basses and monophonic leads and then compliment that with the Virus TI. This seems like the best value for the money.

I have to tell you, coming from a standpoint of only having experience with VA's and softsynths, the true analog units really, really impressed me with their sound. The depth of sound coming from the Moog units is so far ahead of anything that I have heard from a DSP based unit. I know I referred to that Moog sound earlier in my original post, and basically I heard that sound when playing with both units tonight. I can't really describe it, but there was just tha something extra I heard out of the Moog units that I have never heard from a DSP hardware unit or a softsynth before. It's going to be hard to wait. I can certainly see why so many owners extoll the virtues of their analog hardware units. There really is nothing that comes even close to their sound from what I could hear. Really, really top notch!

While the Andromeda sounds great from the things I have heard in demos I think I'll wait a bit before considering that addition. The Prophet, Voyager and TI should have me covered for a bit and I really wanted to pick up some hardware that I can get new rather than taking the risk on buying a used unit from eBay.

Thanks for the opinions!

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Eric J

I have to tell you, coming from a standpoint of only having experience with VA's and softsynths, the true analog units really, really impressed me with their sound. I can certainly see why so many owners extoll the virtues of their analog hardware units. There really is nothing that comes even close to their sound from what I could hear. Really, really top notch!

stikestike

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Eric J

I can certainly see why so many owners extoll the virtues of their analog hardware units. There really is nothing that comes even close to their sound from what I could hear. Really, really top notch!

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Eric J

Thanks for the responses. Quite a few diverse opinions out there! I went the GC tonight and played around with the LP and the Voyager. I wasn't as impressed with the LP as I thought I would be. It sounds great, but I felt that the Voyager sounded a little better, maybe due to the extra OSC. In addition, I thought that the LP interface was a bit fiddly compared to the Voyager. Presing buttons to change the function of the knobs was a bit of a hassle. That XY pad in the Voyager also adds a new element of tweakability, very fun to play around with. I have to admit that I was really impressed with the build quality of the Voyager, where as the LP did not feel as solid. Those Moog knobs just have this "tweak me" type of feel to them. Big and solid, it was very, very nice!

Unfortunately, they did not have a Prophet there that I could play around with, so I'll have to rely on the demos and youtbe videos to get a feel for that synth. I think after reading everyone's opinions that its is probably a good idea to go for the Prophet 08 first and then compliment that with the Voyager next followed by the Virus TI. I think the Prophet will probably be able to meet some immediate needs for an analog synth that can do great pads as still function as a bass synth if need be. Once I pick up the Voyager, I'll probably use that for basses and monophonic leads and then compliment that with the Virus TI. This seems like the best value for the money.

I have to tell you, coming from a standpoint of only having experience with VA's and softsynths, the true analog units really, really impressed me with their sound. The depth of sound coming from the Moog units is so far ahead of anything that I have heard from a DSP based unit. I know I referred to that Moog sound earlier in my original post, and basically I heard that sound when playing with both units tonight. I can't really describe it, but there was just tha something extra I heard out of the Moog units that I have never heard from a DSP hardware unit or a softsynth before. It's going to be hard to wait. I can certainly see why so many owners extoll the virtues of their analog hardware units. There really is nothing that comes even close to their sound from what I could hear. Really, really top notch!

While the Andromeda sounds great from the things I have heard in demos I think I'll wait a bit before considering that addition. The Prophet, Voyager and TI should have me covered for a bit and I really wanted to pick up some hardware that I can get new rather than taking the risk on buying a used unit from eBay.

Thanks for the opinions!

I get exactly where you're at and I think the Prophet '08 is a great jumping point!

I think it'll cover more territory than you think. I love my Moog (model D), but it's not a first synth (although I did get it long before the Prophet '08.

I can honestly say that the Prophet '08 is an excellant synth and perhaps the best first analogue synth out there.

It has that classic Curtis chip sound. It's a classic layout (a great example of analogue synthesis, easy to get your head around tweaking). Impressive sounding.

Then the next synth you get can be more eccentric. (Don't count out a Studio Electronics SE1x for a great Moog style bass)

And some people suggest the Andromeda A6, while I don't love it, it's a great synth, but I find it's not a great first synth and once you start building your collection, you may find a Moog is a better Moog, a Prophet a better Prophet and an Oberheim a better Oberheim... you get the idea.

Oh, that reminds me, an Oberheim Matrix 1000 is great analogue bang for your buck... for your second or third synth... let the collecting begin!!!!

Best of luck, you'll be fine.


-andrews

[Eric J]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I get exactly where you're at and I think the Prophet '08 is a great jumping point!

I think it'll cover more territory than you think. I love my Moog (model D), but it's not a first synth (although I did get it long before the Prophet '08.

I can honestly say that the Prophet '08 is an excellant synth and perhaps the best first analogue synth out there.

I think you're absolutely right and at that price its really hard to pass up. $1,500 for 8 voices and 100% analog, are you kidding me??? You really seem to get a lot for not much money, which seems to be rare in the analog world.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Then the next synth you get can be more eccentric. (Don't count out a Studio Electronics SE1x for a great Moog style bass)

I did check out the Omega 8, which was very pricey. I'll check out the SE1x as well.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

And some people suggest the Andromeda A6, while I don't love it, it's a great synth, but I find it's not a great first synth and once you start building your collection, you may find a Moog is a better Moog, a Prophet a better Prophet and an Oberheim a better Oberheim... you get the idea.

That's why I'm thinking of picking up more than one. I'm a big fan of any kind of electronics that do one thing well and try not to be all things to all people. It usualy means that they do that one thing VERY well!

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Oh, that reminds me, an Oberheim Matrix 1000 is great analogue bang for your buck... for your second or third synth... let the collecting begin!!!!

Yeah a friend of mine has one of those and I never paid it much attention. I'll have to investigate further next time I'm over at his place.

[ImJohn]

Hi Eric,

I think you should "man up" and get a modular!

Check out Synthesizers.com* ---* Portable-22 Synthesizer System

Here is one on Ebay that you might be able to get for less:
Synthesizers.com Portable22+ modular synth w/Q118 - eBay (item 320308840338 end time Oct-14-08 17:20:38 PDT)

You might be able to get it low enough so you'd still have budget left over for a used Korg MS2000 Korg MS-2000 Analog Modeling Synth/Vocoder MS2000 NR!! - eBay (item 110295897078 end time Oct-11-08 10:00:00 PDT) or if you already have a midi keyboard get the rack version MS2000R Korg MS2000R virtual analog synthesizer - eBay (item 120316114728 end time Oct-16-08 18:17:49 PDT) (or consider an old Roland Alpha juno or racked version MKS-50 Roland MKS 50 synthesizer rack module - eBay (item 250303706030 end time Oct-10-08 11:54:05 PDT))

Here's some related demos:

DOTCOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omzzaxf-hlU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1vBwXhH-2U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4kZYwOlB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNmzy...eature=related

Korg MS2000:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaVU_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNTvWoO_Jng&NR=1

Roland Alpha Juno/MKS-50:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfHYH...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_oq9Ty8azE

[rasp]

This is just my 2 cents but if I was going to purchase my first analog synth and I already owned a few VAs, I would probably go for an older VCO analog like a Pro~One or a SH-09/SH-2. Everybody should own at least one old-school VCO monosynth in their lifetime.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I know from previous comments that you're not much of a Moog fan. Just curious what your go to synths for bass sounds are?

Absolutely incorrect.
I admire Moog instruments as much as anyone. I think the Mini-Moog is an icon and a wonderful sounding instrument.
I don't own anything Moog because I think a lot of Moog gear is expensive, often because of the four letters on the case, m. o. o. g.
I haven't found anything in my sound palette lacking because of the absence of Moog.
Bass-wise........
I work on a wide variety of music.
Sometimes I need a big fat bass sound, sometimes something thinner/sharper, sometimes I don't have anything recognisably 'bass'.
Most used synths for bass duties are my MKS80, Oberheim 4 Voice (massive) and various modular set ups, the Synton Fenix is pretty good for bass.
I also have a Steiner Parker Synthacon, which is a sort of alternative take on the Mini-Moog. Arguably not quite so fat sounding, but close.
When I was involved in more dance music styles I owned an Arp 2600 (with the Moog clone filter) and a large Roland 100M system, also very nice for all kinds of bass type tones.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by rasp

I would probably go for an older VCO analog like a Pro~One or a SH-09/SH-2. Everybody should own at least one old-school VCO monosynth in their lifetime.

+1
thumbsup

[CalvaryBand]

Might be worth looking into the polyevolver. They're going for rather cheap these days so within that budget you could get the evolver and a decent monosynth (Yamaha CS line, Pro-one, Mono/poly, etc) off eBay. Easily covers pads, bass, and leads.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Absolutely incorrect.

My bad. I took past statements like this one to mean that you didn't really care much for the Moog sound (which is fine);

Originally Posted by chrisso

It's still a great synth, but in saying that it doesn't have to be for everyone.
I don't have much use for a Mini-Moog, nor a Moog Modular, or an MPC60 or a TB303.

I was just interested in hearing what your preferred bass machines are as the mini is commonly thought of as a bit of a 'Holy Grail'. Always interesting to hear what others prefer and it certainly sounds like you've got some great choices to pull from!

[chrisso]

FWIW, I don't really like 'lead' synths in my own music.
One of my old time favourites was Jan Hammer and he pulled some incredible sounds out of the Mini Moog. But that was then.
I often use mono synths for fx and audio processing as well as bass.
That's where the Synthacon excels.
The 2600 too, especially on the processing side.
Same with the Pro One I used to own.
Somehow the Mini doesn't seem like an FX/Processing machine to me.
If I had to choose a mono synth that was good for bass, I would also want lots of modulation possibilities and possibly an audio input.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by chrisso

FWIW, I don't really like 'lead' synths in my own music.
One of my old time favourites was Jan Hammer and he pulled some incredible sounds out of the Mini Moog. But that was then.
I often use mono synths for fx and audio processing as well as bass.
That's where the Synthacon excels.
The 2600 too, especially on the processing side.
Same with the Pro One I used to own.
Somehow the Mini doesn't seem like an FX/Processing machine to me.
If I had to choose a mono synth that was good for bass, I would also want lots of modulation possibilities and possibly an audio input.

The Synthacon has always intrigued me. 2600 as well but that's way out of my budget at the moment!

[Transistor]

Get one of the MKS-80s floating around on eBay. Then consider anything by SE. Great stuff.

r,
j,

[dlmorley]

For $2000-2500 I would consider a Prophet 5. I love them, but it´s a personal thing.
In your situation I could imagine the Prophet 08 being a good synth as well. I tried one quickly and was not impressed with the presets, BUT wanted to spend more time with it. That is a good sign. It just sounded a bit bright, but I felt it could be programmed to be great.
A mini moog is a superb performance instrument, and has such a classic tone. It really is deep and huge, but as chrisso said and I agree, that in the studio I like a bit more and go for an ARP 2600 first. Unfortunately those are too pricey now. An ARP odyssey is still my favorite undervalued monosynth. Great features and fun to use.
Anyway, you could get a Prophet 8 and something like an Odyssey possibly within your budget.

[alexp]

You want analogue and then list off all the modern analogues while forgetting some of the older classic ones. If you want THAT moog sound on a budget, I would wholeheartedly recommend the Moog Source. It has that great moog sound, on the cheap with a good user interface (yes its not knobs, but I think its a pretty intuitive and well laid out machine.) With the money left over, get a SC Prophet 600, and suddenly you have a great little collection going!


Best of luck to you!


alexP

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Eric J

... having experience with VA's and softsynths, the true analog units really, really impressed me with their sound. The depth of sound coming from the Moog units is so far ahead of anything that I have heard from a DSP based unit ........ there was just that something extra I heard out of the Moog units that I have never heard from a DSP hardware unit or a softsynth before........ There really is nothing that comes even close to their sound from what I could hear. Really, really top notch!

....have a listen to a VA with digital output, reclocked / sync,ed usign a Lynx AES16 or RME hdsp/ff or any rack SRC 1:1
+ a berillium atomic wordclock like Antelope 10M or teac esoteric g-08Br with the best silver cables or OFC or PCOCOOP + a verry high end DAC like lavry GOLD 924, redbox rb-adda, hd192, altmann micromachines, DAD ax24, lynx aurora8, rme adi-8qs, tc finalizer plus/96k, etc...
in wide mode clock to bypass the internal jitter removal circuit.

i own a drawmer m-clock that has jitter of <1ppm when its warm, and its far from an atomic clock 0.00003/5ppm,
my m-clock plugged with BNC-to-BNC adapter to my Lynx AES16+Ls-Adat, and with verry nice full OFC cables to my DAC then to digital EQ -->amp---> loudspeakers,
my kenton plugstation + yamaha plg150-an ADAT out sounds!...thumbsup

in my experience with a docen of vintage real analog synths, tb303/arp2600/oddisey/oberheim matrix1000/juno-60 and others i cant remember...
i like more the VAs with digital out + proper clock + propper DAC + propper amplifier + propper headphones & Loudspeakers with high-end EQ + novation remote sl.

IN THE END, EVERY MACHINE HAS A UNIQUE FEATURE THAT MAKES A UNIQUE SOUND,
IF THATS THE SOUND YOU LIKE, GO FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT.
try also with furman pf pro 2 or it-20 ii, or monster 5100 or 7000

i never liked the minimoog sound, anyway
the minimax midi controller was pretty, but never liked the real minimoog sound, but always loved the SEM filters! some D-50 sounds, Korg, Yamaha and Roland analog.

If want to hear some .mp3 demos of the Yamaha AN VA algorithms,
try to hear them with a verry good wordclock , etc...
and with telos mp3 decoder...
ftp://ftp.telos.cc/audioactive/aadec114.exe
bottom of the page are the links...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/334248-sale-kenton-plugstation-yamaha-plg150.html

[shadowfac]

Originally Posted by space2012

....have a listen to a VA with digital output, reclocked / sync,ed usign a Lynx AES16 or RME hdsp/ff or any rack SRC 1:1
+ a berillium atomic wordclock like Antelope 10M or teac esoteric g-08Br with the best silver cables or OFC or PCOCOOP + a verry high end DAC like lavry GOLD 924, redbox rb-adda, hd192, altmann micromachines, DAD ax24, lynx aurora8, rme adi-8qs, tc finalizer plus/96k, etc...
in wide mode clock to bypass the internal jitter removal circuit.

or, just plug a decent analog synth into your amp.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by shadowfac

or, just plug a decent analog synth into your amp.

tutt
right, at first seems easier & better
BUT...
if you are gonna record it to digital or make a digital distribution format, like CD or the master for pressing a 12" LP in digital with your decent analog synth,

all that magic goes away in the AD/DA. <---
unless you have an atomic wordclock with best cables and a lavry gold ad mk3 or dad ax24 or altmann micromachines, redbox rb-adda, hd192, etc...
...
its so obvious when you hear some records/mp3/wavs made with 100% real analog, "AAD" Analog source, Analog Mix, to Digital distribution media.

you know its analog becouse some songs sound so weak, becouse the AD and wordclock used!

when you hear a 100% analog song "AAD" with a normal jitter wordclock DAC, it sounds weaker, blurr, less louder than "DDD" songs or ADD.

when you hear AAD songs and some ADD with a <1ppm wordclock,
they JUMP UP IN FRONT, GLOW, STRONGER, LOUDER. DETAILED. BOLDER
the DDD songs also, but not as dramatic. becouse they had no jitter from the AD. unless has samples or something.

AD&DA process has jitter unless you have an atomic clock.
jitter makes the sound weaker, blurr,
becouse the harmonic cancelations in almost every frequency.
similar to standing waves but from the DAC chip, op-amp or even headphones & loudspeakers.

when you record AD, and listen in other sound system with another wordclock,
its twice the jitter.
VAs with digital out, with very nice cables, 100% OFC or better, only have the jitter of the listening DACs. = no AD jitter, more powerfull, less blurr sounds.


thats why some people hear VAs as Toys vs. real analog,
becouse they have Toy AD/DA & wordclocks.


and from the consumer point of view, CLUBS, DJS, etc...
the best analog synths & mixers can only sound as good as the wordclock and AD/DA used.

the final product its far more important. &
Your sound is as weak as your weaker link.

shure ther are great songs recorded bad
like jeff mills - the bells, original not remastered.

BUT IM NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPOSITION OR MUSIC TALENT. OR ENERGY LEVEL.

Its a missed conception that Digital sounds inferior.
shure your crappy soundcard sounds bad.
that does not mean all digital sounds bad.

[crufty]

re space2012, ahhh hmm i sense something i've not sensed since...

my opinion shouldn't be worth much but.

The only analog synth I truly, truly love is the FR 777. all others pale in comparison.

[MonoBrow]

Prophet 08 or Andromeda A6. Both great,try em.

And then buy 5 atomic clocks so you can sleep well again.