mpc4k mtc master of pro tools hd without sync box?
MarkJ
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#1
7th October 2008
Old 7th October 2008
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mpc4k mtc master of pro tools hd without sync box?

Hey all, I just wanted to know if this sync is possible in pt hd without grabbing a sync box.

I am trying to sync pro tools to my 4k so I can record without loosing the mpc swing feel. I know this is a subjective topic and many people don't find a difference, but I do. My sync process from reading other posts for the best setup with what I have currently is..

Smpte out MPC to Midi Time Piece
Smpte converted to MTC in timepiece
timepiece going into PT
PT MTC receive port set to any
PT put online
press start on mpc but PT does not start. timepiece is receiving and locked to mpc's smpte and signal is going out the usb port..

am I forgetting some small setting in PT or can PT just not sync like this without just getting a sync box and going straight smpte sync.

any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much

-Mark J
#2
7th October 2008
Old 7th October 2008
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use midi beat clock in pt. run that out to ur mpc and control ur mpc with pt. it wont lose the feel. thumbsup
#3
8th October 2008
Old 8th October 2008
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Not sure why you would not simply transmit MTC straight from the MPC4000. I trust its sync many times more than I would trust a MOTU timepiece, and anyhow, that would eliminate one piece of gear from the equation without costing anything in terms of accuracy. For the best possible timing, send MTC to a MIDI OUT port on the MPC that is not being used for anything else (i.e., so that MTC is the only thing coming out of that port). Timecode (MTC) is a better choice for synching with a DAW than MIDI clock.

-synthoid
#4
9th October 2008
Old 9th October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthoid View Post
Not sure why you would not simply transmit MTC straight from the MPC4000. I trust its sync many times more than I would trust a MOTU timepiece, and anyhow, that would eliminate one piece of gear from the equation without costing anything in terms of accuracy. For the best possible timing, send MTC to a MIDI OUT port on the MPC that is not being used for anything else (i.e., so that MTC is the only thing coming out of that port). Timecode (MTC) is a better choice for synching with a DAW than MIDI clock.

-synthoid

But why is timecode "better"?
#5
9th October 2008
Old 9th October 2008
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Well I didn't know how to explain it, so I googled it and found the following:

MTC stands for MIDI Time Code. Its a series midi messages that tells other devices what time it is at any given moment in hours, minutes, seconds and frames. MTC is simply understood as a conversion of SMPTE timecode that goes down a MIDI cable. It is sent in quarter frame intervals as MIDI system exclusive data.


MIDI Clock is yet another option, not to be confused with MTC, though they are similar. Originally, MIDI clock sync was just a bunch of blips that told devices when to start, stop, continue and follow the tempo of the master device. This is perfect for making synths and samplers synchronize their LFOs, and effects delay time. It also passes tempo which is important when syncing arpeggiators, drum loops and other time based sounds.





And I've found when sync'ing external MIDI gear to ProTools (or Ableton or Reason) that sometimes it takes a second or so to lock in good, so I usually leave my first measure blank and start things on the second bar.


But I run MIDI out from my interface to my Korg ES-1, so my ES can get MTC to stay synced, as well as pick up the MMC messages to start playing, and then run it's MIDI Out to my controller keyboard's MIDI In. I'm sure the MPC would excell at this, since it is a MIDI workstation.

Or why not just export the MIDI sequences into ProTools?
#6
9th October 2008
Old 9th October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-O View Post
But why is timecode "better"?
Hi,

Timecode is simpler. It locks the timelines of the two pieces of gear together, period. It works the same way whether the time code comes is in the form of SMPTE/LTC, or MTC. It doesn't depend on making a tempo map on the slave side that matches the tempo map on the master side, or keeping the tempo maps up-to-date. On top of all this, the timing pulses are simply more regular and simpler to lock up to -- they come at fixed time intervals, like a word clock but at lower frequency. DAWs are good at locking to time code, since it's used not only for synching to sequencers, but also for synching to video devices and tape machines, i.e., anything with a transport and timeline.

MIDI clock is great when the receiver is doing tempo-synched effects, and needs to understand when tempos change and where bars begin. But synching recording devices and timelines together is not such a case.

-synthoid
#7
9th October 2008
Old 9th October 2008
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i have noticed timing differences btw mpc and PT. especially in the first bar-a 75% solution is to program a blank 2 bar seq at the top of the song.

whenever possible, i now drop the entire song, sequenced, into PT as an audio file with no midi whatsoever, and then just slide it to fit. but i mostly use the mpc for drums now, so it can be simple FOR ME, maybe not you.


another thing to consider-the line amps of the stereo output and the indiv outs are not the same. i you A/B them, you can notice this as well-at least on a 2k.

another thing- IME, mpc's dont function well as master midi machines, they like to slave rather.
#8
9th June 2011
Old 9th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s12512 View Post
use midi beat clock in pt. run that out to ur mpc and control ur mpc with pt. it wont lose the feel. thumbsup
On what you base this statement? Because my experience is exactly the opposite
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