tips of rmaking synth sounds evolve in interesting ways?

[intellijel]

The most obvious way to make a synth riff change over time is to play with the filter cutoff but this is pretty overdone and predictable (but still fun!)

FM synths have parameters that can be changed that lead to big timbre changes so they can sometimes lend themselves well to evolving sounds.

Synths like a Nord Lead have the morph feature so you can setup a start and destination point for multiple parameters and control them morphing over time.

A lot of the results in how a synth reacts to parameter changes is totally based on the musical chracter of the particular instrument or plugin you are playing with. Some analog synths are famous for this (e.g. opening up a filter on a moog sounds different than on a Rave-o-lution :P )

I was wondering if people here have some tips for synth sound design in terms of good parameters to try modulating or playing with?? ( besides the obvious: Filter, VCA/VCF ADSR, PB)

Stuff to make them come alive or change dramatically at the turn of a dial for example.

It might help if you are specific about what synths or plugins it works well on too.

So many of the tutorials on synthesis I have come across always focus on making the staple boring sounds or emulations. I haven't come across any that focus on how to make really unique lead/pad sounds that can be interacted with to create non-linear results.

[James Meeker]

The programming is important, but it's helpful to have synths designed for that task. Look for synths that offer:

1.) Plenty of LFO's.

2.) Plenty of envelopes. Especially if they are larger than ADSR envelopes.

3.) Long LFO and envelope times.

4.) Lots of modulations--look for a lot of destinations AND sources.

5.) Interesting oscillator section. Plain vanilla saw/square/triangle analog oscillators are a little boring, try something that uses additive or FM synthesis, or even wavetable/wavesequencing.

6.) Learn to live with the sad truth that there are more digital synths capable of making these types of sounds than analog, unless you spring for a modular synth.

7.) Multitimbral or synths that let you 'stack' or 'split' voices are generally able to get trippier sounds through layering.

Good synths to check out for this type of work: Waldorf Wave/XT series, Korg Wavestation, SCI Prophet VS, Roland JD800/JD990, Roland D50, Yamaha TG series, SCI Prophet 5 (polymod and osc b variations), any well specified modular synth, Oberheim Matrix 6, Matrix 12 or Xpander, Synclavier, Symbolic Sound Kyma system, Hartmann Neuron, and the Alesis Andromeda (tons of modulation possiblities).

On the software side the Cameleon 5000, NI Absynth, Arturia Moog Modular V and Arp 2600V, the Korg digital legacy series (Wavestation), Virsyn Cube and Posiedon are all good places to look.

[Dave Peck]

Ditto what James said, & I'll add another synth to the list - Nord Modular (original or G2 version).

Here's a trick that I often use to create complex shifting timbres (usually done with the Nords).

1. Use two oscs and apply some kind of slow sweeping effect to each, like a triangle osc with hard sync sweep for one and a sine osc with FM depth sweep for the other.

2. Use two different LFOs running at different rates to control these two sweeps, like one LFO at .100 Hz and the other at .118 Hz. Sine or triangle LFOs work well, but slow random LFOs can be even better if your synth can do that.

3. Tune the oscs to a musical interval like a perfect fifth or a major sixth.

4. Patch them to a ring modulator and send the ring mod to the filters etc - don't send the direct osc signals to the filter, only the ring mod.

The ring mod will create a very complex shifting timbre that can sound like all sorts of cool wavetable-ish or digital synth sounds. Viola!

Another trick - two phase shifters in series, slowly sweeping at different rates. Set the controls differently, like positive feedback on one and negative feedback on the other.

In general, you can get the sound to change in lots of different ways as it slowly evolves if you make sure all of the LFOs you are using are sweeping at different rates.

[Haven]

a couple synths I would add to the list of already suitable intruments are the Korg Z1 and Prophecy - each have 4 LFO's and six ADHSR's (two of which are hardwired to AMP and Filter, the rest are free). as well as the Kurzweil K2xxx series with their FUNs.

For me a lot of complex evolving sounds are a result of modulating oscilator levels in the mixer section (or layer levels in a S&S synth), modulting timbre of the oscilators such as the wave shape (waveshaping, MOSS parameters in the above Korgs) and finally modulating the depth of modulations. The last one is big, either modulte the depth of LFO's over time with envelopes or their own envelopes and delays or other LFO's and envelopes. Most digital synth LFO's have their own simple envelope with a delay - great for changing a sound drastically over time.

Do this, then make another patch - runboth through complex delays plus other FX. track both or more - mix between them.

[intellijel]

hey guys, thanks for the answers so far!

I guess I should be clear that I am not looking for evolving drones or sounds that simply have movement. I specifically want sounds that I can control with a clear cause and effect.
The example of opening up a filter is a good one since you can suddenly make a dull sound start growling.
Another common example is having a really short decay on a sound and then opening up the decay so that it is suddenly much more present.

This is sound design for minimal techno tracks.

The instruments I have (of which several I am sure are more than suitable):
Nord Modular g1
Nord Lead 2
Korg Mono/poly
Sh-101
MKS-30+PG200
Korg Electribe Er1mk2


I think the NM and NL2 are going to be really ideal for this. I am especially interested in tips for creating patches in the NM where I have the flexbility to add whatever I need to the standard subtractive synth architecture to create more unusual timbre changes.

[aeonlux]

The Proteus2K-based synths from E-mu are quite capable of evolving tones for a handful of reasons:

• the ability to run 12 full synth architectures in parallel per note-on (osc->filter->amp) and crossfade among them
• a wide selection of waveforms that allows for crossfades between and among similar and dissimilar timbres
• dozens of real-time modulation paths per synth architecture including the use of complex midi-sync LFOs, noise sources, lag processors, etc.
• the ability to modulate the modulations
• enelopes that sync to midi clock
• the ability to modulate sample start and loop

---

I love the use of morph groups on the Nord Modular because you can have parameter modulation happening on multiple axes at once that allow for expressive and musical timbral shifts.

---

Use MIDI control messages to modulate synth parameters at the same time you are using those messages to modulate parameters in an effects device that is processing that synth's audio. This can go a long way to creating evolving sounds when the processor is capable, e.g., t.c. electronic FireworX, Kurzweil KSP8, and Eventide H8000FW.


cheers,
Ian

[intellijel]

Also I wanted to say that when I say evolving I mean that the sound/timbre starts at one point or form and then evolves into something distintctlty different at the end point directly due to how the synth is interacted with. Not just a constantly changing sound with self changing parameters.

[Haven]

velocity to env time (one of my favorites, leads turn into pads depending on your playing)
velocity to env level
cross fade between layers/oscillators (layers work better IMO, but depends on your synth)
wave table oscillators
oscillator sync and fm

all simple and potentially subtle timbre modulations that can result in very different yet related sounds.

[esaias]

PWM

-Tomi

[Acid Hazard]

I can't believe i haven't seen one mention of the Evolver!

[esaias]

yeah, and then there is Ensoniq FIZMO which was supposed to be some sort evolving sound synth, I'd buy one if one came across

-Tomi

[SonOfSteven]

Originally Posted by Acid Hazard

I can't believe i haven't seen one mention of the Evolver!

Il mention it,

Evolvers are great for making sounds change over time. especialy with the sequencers inside that u can send to any mod destination, 4 LFo's to any destination and 4 mod busses. once u set those up u already have a crazy sound moving all over the place. and then automate parameters via midi and things get pretty crazy.

[shadowfac]

I'll take a slightly different direction:

Composing/sequencing:

1) The use of layers may turn a bunch of dull sounding pads into a nice, evolving soundscape. All layers are basically playing the same chords but at different octaves, inversions, etc.

2) If you use step sequencers, see if you can make the sequence change over time: the most obvious way is to simply change some steps, but depending on the sequencer, you can also change the loop points, shift or reverse the sequence, or even play it in random order. Modular enviroments, such as the Nord G2 or Max/MSP are great for this.

3) If you use a software sequencer, take advantage of its automation capabilities.

Effects:

These days, effects are as much part of a synthesizer's architecture as oscillators and filters, especially if you can tweak them in realtime without any serious glitches. With some synths, you can even modulate their effect parameters with envelopes and LFO's. Once again, modulars are great for this stuff.

[OurDarkness]

Originally Posted by intellijel

tips for making synth sounds evolve or change in interesting ways by reacting to....?

Serge Modular.

[aeonlux]

Originally Posted by intellijel

Also I wanted to say that when I say evolving I mean that the sound/timbre starts at one point or form and then evolves into something distintctlty different at the end point directly due to how the synth is interacted with. Not just a constantly changing sound with self changing parameters.

Learn to program clever morph groups on your Nord Modular. Sorted!


cheers,
Ian

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by esaias

yeah, and then there is Ensoniq FIZMO which was supposed to be some sort evolving sound synth

Heh, the Fizmo is a dog. If you want a transwave synth I'd suggest looking at an earlier Ensoniq offering rather than the Fiz, which has well documented power supply issues.

[Haven]

personally I did not like the Fizmo, built cheap (a wall wart for a 61 key keyboard!), cheap keyboard, horrible graphic design, confusing front panel layout and knob selection and worst of all sounded thin and fuzzy like the synth engine was distorting or aliasing. I also felt like I had little control over what it was doing, basically all the knobs seemed to do is steer the presets instead of completely transforming them.

I had one for a couple weeks and quickly sold it.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by intellijel

hey guys, thanks for the answers so far!

I guess I should be clear that I am not looking for evolving drones or sounds that simply have movement. I specifically want sounds that I can control with a clear cause and effect.
The example of opening up a filter is a good one since you can suddenly make a dull sound start growling.
Another common example is having a really short decay on a sound and then opening up the decay so that it is suddenly much more present.

This is sound design for minimal techno tracks.

The instruments I have (of which several I am sure are more than suitable):
Nord Modular g1
Nord Lead 2
Korg Mono/poly
Sh-101
MKS-30+PG200
Korg Electribe Er1mk2

Ah, you have an NM. Good. If you want real-time manual control rather than automated random sweeps, but you want that control to do more complex and interesting stuff that basic filter sweeps etc., Try using things like the vocal filters, the phasers, and the wave wrappers. And instead of LFOs use the mod wheel to control several different parameters at the same time, but use the level shifter/inverter module to get inverted control of some of the parameters.

So for example, when you push the mod wheel forward, it sweeps the freq of a vocal filter UP, while sweeping a phaser DOWN, and sweeps UP through the vowels of the vocal filter AND sweeps a wave wrapper DOWN.

Now add a second source for real time controls, like the pedal or aftertouch, and use that to modulate a second group of parameters like resonance and PWM and osc detuning.

Viola! The NM and G2 have got to be the easiest synths for doing this kind of stuff and you can really get some complicated and interesting things happening.

I have a ton of NM & G2 patches like this (I created some of the factory patches for the G2). If you want, PM me with your email info & I'll reply with a few example patches attached.

Oh yeah and go to the NM archive at electro-music for a HUGE pile of free NM patches:

http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/010_NordModular/

Dave Peck

[intellijel]

I was suprised no one mentioned the Elektron monomachine.

I have not had a chance to play with one yet but the specs made it seem like it was super powerful for complex modulation and recording automation loops into it.

[decibike]

or... how about using some guitar stompboxes?

I use a tube driver distortion pedal on synths lots of times: Fiddling with the EQ or the distortion knob can give a nice growl, especially on lead sounds. Or use a couple of them: phasers, flanger, filters, delays, (auto)wah etc.

Even cheap flea market keyboards can be turned into something special using these things.

[Phelan Kane]

Layering!

Use 2 or 3 synths (maybe at different octaves) to play the same part and modulate each differently (env for one, lfo for other etc).

Have a listen to 'Detroit Escaltor Co.'. Great pads.

Anyone checked out 'Crystal'? It's a FREE VST. Wikid 'looped envelopes' and crazy modulation matrix. Excellent presets.

It's so good that it's used as an example of synth modulation on the Music Tech degree I teach at my uni.

Crystal VST Instrument

Go grab it...