Korg Wavestation A/D - is it worth it?

[shadowfac]

I used to own a Wavestation SR a few years ago, and it was one of my favorite synths. I bought it real cheap and sold it for a profit with the idea of replacing it with the Korg Legacy Digital Edition later, which I never did.

Now, however, I'm trying to stay away from softsynths (nothing wrong with them, but these days I enjoy hardware much more than software), so there's kind of a missing spot in my hardware rig that the WS used to fill. OTOH, I've always liked Korg romplers and currently I have none.

Now I have the chance to get a Wavestation A/D for (what I think is) very cheap: $200. It appears to be a small desktop model with audio inputs (I didn't know there were Wavestations with audio inputs). AFAIK, the SR had more waveforms than any of the other Wavestations, so I may not be able to load all of my old patches, but I still think it would be a nice addition.

Of course.... for that money I could buy the Korg Legacy DE.

Another question: I used to edit my WS-SR with SoundDiver, which no longer works in my PC. Is there any decent free/share-ware editors out there?

BTW.- the guy who sells this says he'll throw in an Alesis Quadraverb for another $50. Would that be worth it?

[San01]

I'd say go for Korg Legacy, it sounds just the same as the hardware and you get all the additional soundcard thrown in plus the resonant filter.

I would go for it even more since you intended to use an on-screen editor for it. Editing sound on the Korg Legacy is so easy !!!

And you also get the M1 plus all additional cards in the package

[jetplane666666]

The Wavestation SR sounds better than the Wavestation A/D.

I have full schematics for both units and they are identical, so how is this possible? Korg re-designed the circuit board in the SR for lower clock jitter, and the difference is stunning. (discovering this years ago was my introduction to the deleterious effects of clock jitter and it came as quite a revelation) I had an AD and I did a lot of programming on it. The interface is great. Most of the power of this synth comes from the effects section. I sold it and bought an SR 9 years ago and I still have it. I don't do any programming on it, although it is possible through the front panel.

The poster above is correct, though. If you plan on using it only as a sequenced sound module, then buy the software model. My SR is a part of a larger synth rig and is used stand alone; not part of a computer rig, so I can't use the software model.

[jetplane666666]

Originally Posted by San01

I'd say go for Korg Legacy, it sounds just the same as the hardware and you get all the additional soundcard thrown in plus the resonant filter.

Actually the Legacy sounds better than the original wavestations, because the sample rate on the originals was 33kHz (if I remember correctly) and on the Legacy it is (usually) 44.1kHz.

This translates into a little extra sparkle on an already wonderfully sparkly synth.

I wasn't aware of the addition of a resonant filter. That was Dave Smith's major regret when he designed the wavestation; that he and Korg were unable to include such a filter in the device. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to check this out.

[shadowfac]

Thanks for all responses. I'm still unsure about the software version. I've always wanted it, but I don't know when I'll be back to using softsynths. I work as a professor in a university's computer science program, so I spend most of the day in front of a computer, and sometimes I find computers uninspiring for music-making.

Then again, I have a Nord G2 and Yamaha FS1R, both of which have to be programmed with a PC editors; however, it's not the same as using a softsynth because once you have your patches, you don't need to turn on the PC to play, or even to compose, if you use a hardware sequencer.

On the other hand, the differences in sample rate, word size, and jittering artifacts may give the HW Wavestations their own particular sound, with respect to the software version. Would it make sense to have both? Is it possible to transfer patches between the hardware and software?

[San01]

don't know if you can exchange patches (there should be a way to do it)

But believe me, between doing in-depth edititing on the hardware tiny lcd and the very intuitive software GUI, i wouldn't think twice and get the software in any case.

I even discovered some functions i never used before

[Reptil]

the hardware is cool, but terrible to program. after looking how a friend of mine was struggeling with that, I got the softsynth. both sound nice. the softsynth a bit thinner, or more precise, it's how you look at it. lol

[Black-Man]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

The Wavestation SR sounds better than the Wavestation A/D.

I have full schematics for both units and they are identical, so how is this possible? Korg re-designed the circuit board in the SR for lower clock jitter, and the difference is stunning.

I assume this means the aliasing and grunginess ( I guess thats a word ) of the VS waveforms is less on the SR?

I have been tempted to purchase a PEK just to get those VS waveforms w/o the noise. But between that and the noisy effects, maybe thats what gives the A/D its charm.

[Popbott]

Originally Posted by shadowfac

It appears to be a small desktop model with audio inputs (I didn't know there were Wavestations with audio inputs).
it?

The Wavestation A/D has a very cool vocoder. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was the staple vocoder sound of some R&B hit songs back in the mid '90s. Totally worth it for the vocoder alone IMO.

[shadowfac]

Originally Posted by Popbott

The Wavestation A/D has a very cool vocoder. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was the staple vocoder sound of some R&B hit songs back in the mid '90s. Totally worth it for the vocoder alone IMO.

Now, that's pretty cool. You mean I could make a sound with the Wavestation and vocode it with an external signal (the internal sound being the carrier and the external the modulator)?

[jetplane666666]

Originally Posted by Black-Man

I assume this means the aliasing and grunginess ( I guess thats a word ) of the VS waveforms is less on the SR?

I have been tempted to purchase a PEK just to get those VS waveforms w/o the noise. But between that and the noisy effects, maybe thats what gives the A/D its charm.

No, unfortunately clock jitter is not responsible for the aliasing or the noise you are talking about. Not to get too technical, but those are artifacts of the waveform's harmonic content exceeding the Nyquist frequency of the D/A, and quantization error, respectively. In an interesting twist, the Waldorf Xt (also a wavetable synth) allows one to dial in the amount of aliasing and "grunginess" to taste. In certain situations the effect can be really profound.

The effects of jitter on the signal of the early Wavestation and Wavestation A/D were all bad. Jitter causes (to my ear) the same negative effects that cheap TL072 op-amps impart to audio; a translation of valuable high frequency content into lower midrange grunge and noise. Horrible stuff.

I am not familiar with the Prophet VS. Is the noise you are talking about in the signal path even when no keys are pressed and all notes have decayed to silence?

[jetplane666666]

Originally Posted by shadowfac

Now, that's pretty cool. You mean I could make a sound with the Wavestation and vocode it with an external signal (the internal sound being the carrier and the external the modulator)?

Hey Popbott, thanks for reminding me of the Vocoder! Your post brought back memories of many hours of fun with the vocoder.

Shadowfac, the wavestation oscillator has an internal "sequence" mode where you can set up loops with all sorts of sounds including the external inputs. (I remember using shortwave radio as a source for some of the beats. Talk about electro!)
You can then use these rythem loops as the modulator, and a string pad as the carrier to the vocoder and get the classic Kraftwerk vocoded drums sound, all in the box! It really was an amazing synth!

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

Jitter causes (to my ear) the same negative effects that cheap TL072 op-amps impart to audio;

Offtopic:
Which op amp you recommend as a replacement for TL072?

[roginator]

I had ws ex, SR and now AD wavestation's ... they all sound same

BUT AD is also external FX processor....easier to edit than SR
and don't be stupid and listen this has 33k samples that has 44,1 or 48.....

best damn digital stuff is not made on high sampling rates...
and if you do music and I do a lot.. I love hardware wavestation couse of one thing..

IT SITS IN MIX ON RIGHT PLACE

I tried to fit legacy plugs in my mix ...to fight with my moogs, prophets, ppgs, emulators and all I can tell dfegad LEGACY

ok its good to learn how real deal things work ..but in the mix it lose game!!!!!

and yeah what you think how many bits and what is sampling rate of waveforms in my PPG WAVE

try to beat that with hi rate sampled plugins....


anyway
if its not more than 350 Euro
BUY it .... its allways easy to sell it
and

to me if you wanna know its in same class next to JD 990 rompler .. and I use them bouth a lot

[Don Solaris]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

Actually the Legacy sounds better than the original wavestations, because the sample rate on the originals was 33kHz (if I remember correctly) and on the Legacy it is (usually) 44.1kHz.

It appears for Legacy they put original samples, since memory is peanuts these days. But back then they were forced to reduce sample rate. This is why original Wavestation has more "balls" than software version (less power dissipation in high ends). The soft version is more hi-fi sounding, though.

As of sample rates, i would really like to know what rates and bit depth original Wavestation used (specially because there are many Prophet VS samples inside). I do know however as soon as you put some sample 1 octave down on Wavestation, you instantly get that "grain" due to either low rate (22kHz), or low bits (8/12 bit).

[kmmcdonald]

Roginator is so right! It is great to hear someone observe the same problem that I have been wrestling with.

I have the following:

Wavestation A/D
Wavestation S/R
KDLE

I just cannot get the KDLE WS to sit right in my mixes. It is just a little brighter and thinner (at least for the patches that I use, all of which are my own creation) than the hardware, and I cannot get it not to dominate, even with additional filtering, until it is just too dull.

On the other hand, the hardware units are "just right."