Reverb. Vintage Roland or Vermona RetroVerb?

[tompty88]

Hey GS,

Im looking to get some sweet analoge reverb in my tracks but cant decide what to go for. There are 2 options;

1. Roland Space Echo ( probably 201 series ), a classic great sound unit however due to the many moving parts im a bit nervous about reliability , having to semi-regularly buy new tapes etc. Like i said though, a true classic.

2. Vermona RetroVerb. I have a DRM1 and love the quality of product Vermona make, very solid. I have'nt however managed to find many user reviews on the unit. Also since this would be brand new, maybe this would sound far too 'clean' compared to the 201.

So watcha think? Both are basically the same price on ebay/new so help me decide!

[Clem Snide]

Originally Posted by tompty88

1. Roland Space Echo ( probably 201 series ), a classic great sound unit however due to the many moving parts im a bit nervous about reliability , having to semi-regularly buy new tapes etc. Like i said though, a true classic.

I am also considering getting an RE-201, but have the same concerns. Anyone who has one: how reliable are they?

[nofi]

you are comparing to very different things here....

the space echo (especially the 201) is a tape echo - NOT a reverb. I think the RE-301 might have a spring reverb in it as well, but you wouldn't buy that just for the spring reverb..

the vermona is just a spring reverb, with a resonant filter....


so, first up - do you want reverb, or delay?

[Clem Snide]

The RE-201 does have a spring reverb as well.

[tompty88]

Hmm, i obviously need to do some more research on this.

I thought that all reverb worked by having multiple tape heads at varying distances from each other, so the one sound is repeated at gradually varying volumes/intensity. And therefore it is effectively a delay but producing a reverb effect.
Is this not the case, in particular to the RetroVerb?
If that is the case then i would much prefer the Roland 201.

I think im confusing Tape Echo and Reverb, ive always thought they were the same thing

And finally, are there any modern Tape Echos worth their money?

[Clem Snide]

Reverberation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Delay (audio effect) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tompty88]

Cheers for the help.
I think I've been confused because i've always thought reverb was just a delay, decreasing in volume each time, but obviously i have some reading up to do!

[chrisso]

Yeah, the Roland has a tape delay and a small spring reverb.
I like the Roland, I've owned it for many years. Never changed a tape, or had any particular problems with it. I think the reverb packed up at one point.
It may have been a loose wire or something. My usual tech at the time fixed it very quickly and cheaply.
The reverb is very limited, more of a dub effect than something that simulates a sense of space.
The tape delay is superb though.
I think it's a great machine to own, especially if you combine it with another reverb FX unit when you want something a bit more flexible.

[Clem Snide]

Originally Posted by tompty88

Cheers for the help.
I think I've been confused because i've always thought reverb was just a delay, decreasing in volume each time, but obviously i have some reading up to do!

In the natural world, reveberation is simply the term used when echoes arrive at your ears too close for you to individually distinguish them.

However,for artifical reverb and 'echoes' (i.e. delay) the technology used for the two is often a little different. Tape loops or revolving magnetic heads for delays, springs or plates for reverbs. And DSP for both, of course.

Fundamentally, though, delay and reverb are the same: the repetition of a sound after it is made. They differ in extent.

[Clem Snide]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Yeah, the Roland has a tape delay and a small spring reverb.
I like the Roland, I've owned it for many years. Never changed a tape, or had any particular problems with it. I think the reverb packed up at one point.
It may have been a loose wire or something. My usual tech at the time fixed it very quickly and cheaply.
The reverb is very limited, more of a dub effect than something that simulates a sense of space.
The tape delay is superb though.
I think it's a great machine to own, especially if you combine it with another reverb FX unit when you want something a bit more flexible.

That's good to hear. I've experimented with a friend's Space Echo, and yeah, there ain't nothing natural about that reverb. That's fine by me, though.

Saying that, I thought the reverb on it was okay, but it was definitely the delay that blew me away (away, away, away, way way ay ay ay...).

[keybdwizrd]

Back in the 70's, we (guitarists and keyboardists) all had tape echoes - Echoplexes and Roland Space Echoes. While the effects were cool, they were considered miserable machines - noisy and often unreliable. You always had to have spare tapes on hand and it seemed like they'd screw up at the most inopportune times.

It was maybe 1980 (?) when I was the coolest keyboard player on the block when our manager got me one of these:



...a big ol' Eventide Digital Delay. Mono, as I recall, with no presets. But it was DIGITAL - which was oh so cool, with its pristine clarity, reliability, lack of noise, and best of all.... no frickin' tapes.

I must've cost $2,000, for all I know.

Everyone had to have 'em. Within a few years, the market was flooded with single rack space DDLs.

The tape echo units were thrown into the trash with glee.

[Clem Snide]

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

Back in the 70's, we (guitarists and keyboardists) all had tape echoes - Echoplexes and Roland Space Echoes. While the effects were cool, they were considered miserable machines - noisy and often unreliable. You always had to have spare tapes on hand and it seemed like they'd screw up at the most inopportune times.

It was maybe 1980 (?) when I was the coolest keyboard player on the block when our manager got me one of these:

...a big ol' Eventide Digital Delay. Mono, as I recall, with no presets. But it was DIGITAL - which was oh so cool, with its pristine clarity, reliability, lack of noise, and best of all.... no frickin' tapes.

I must've cost $2,000, for all I know.

Everyone had to have 'em. Within a few years, the market was flooded with single rack space DDLs.

The tape echo units were thrown into the trash with glee.

It's hilarious the way these things go round in circles, ain't it? Suddenly digital is synonymous with "bad" and the forums are full of people wanting to find out how to "add analogue sound" to their music.

If I knew which bin you'd thrown your space echo into, I'd go rooting in it now without shame.

[chrisso]

Tastes change all the time, and people often chase the equipment that everyone else seems to be using.
Touring musicians will update their gear for more roadworthyness and ease of use all the time, but analogue outboard and fx like tape echo have always been a fixture at high-end studios. If everyone threw their tape delays in the trash, someone else must have dug them out so they could be offered for sale now.

One of the nicest tape delays is the Echoplex. It has a slider which controls the speed. You can get some wacky effects by sliding the slider about.
A digital delay I love is the MXR (blue coloured, 2U rack space). It's actually quite dirty and dark sounding. I use mine all the time.
One of the all time classics is the Marshall Time Modulator.
Marshall "Time Modulator"

The Roland Space Echo is great and I would unreservedly recommend it.
Mine has tape delay, spring reverb and Roland's famous chorus.

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Tastes change all the time, and people often chase the equipment that everyone else seems to be using.
Touring musicians will update their gear for more roadworthyness and ease of use all the time, but analogue outboard and fx like tape echo have always been a fixture at high-end studios.

exactly. used in 60, 70s, and in 80s too, allover the place. no big studio has thrown them in the trash. they are a unique sound used up to this day.


no digital delay will ever glue to the dry signal like tape echo does. i love my 201, with the old worn tape it has. more flutter it has better it sounds. its not just a delay - makes stuff bigger than life.. organic.. dirty (in a nice way).. killer for analog leads, guitar leads, fx.. playin a digital synth thru 201 whilst slowly playin the time knob.. is heaven. brings life where there was none.

not that i don't use digital delays - love the sound of PCM70 ping pong delay and some other vintgae digital units, and probably use BBDs like DM300 or MemoryMan most of the time for straight delay duties, when i don't need the tape mojo. bottom line, each type has its own applications.




spare tape is $30ish. it lasts a very long time. just remember to turn of the machine when not using it so that it doesnt spin in vain for hours daily..

[keybdwizrd]

I have to wonder, if there's so much demand for tape echoes, why doesn't someone make new ones and sell them?

[Absent1]

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

I have to wonder, if there's so much demand for tape echoes, why doesn't someone make new ones and sell them?

Blue Coconut / Unity Audio Echo Verb Tape Reverb and Delay

[clusterchord]

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

I have to wonder, if there's so much demand for tape echoes, why doesn't someone make new ones and sell them?

fulltone tube tape echo


hiwatt tape echo

[keybdwizrd]

Never seen these before.

Those are some pretty wicked prices.

[chrisso]

Plus various software versions and this widely used emulation:
Line 6 :: Products

You are right though, the original tape delays aren't going to be completely user friendly for the touring guitarist, or for some studios, but I do see them still in wide use.

[nofi]

Originally Posted by Clem Snide

The RE-201 does have a spring reverb as well.

haha! oops!!!
:-)

I'm not lucky enough to own any space echoes, so have very little direct experience in playing with them.

I'm pretty sure the 301 has something the 201 doesn't have..... was thinking it was the reverb, but it must be the chorus?

[clusterchord]

yep 201 has spring reverb, but i wouldnt call it its forte. its kinda twangy. there are much nicer spring reverb units out there. stuff like vestafire, demeter, akg bx etc..

i would imagine vermona sounds very nice too, w filter n all.. it be nice to have one..

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by keybdwizrd

Never seen these before.

Those are some pretty wicked prices.

The Fulltone is built like a tank and sounds great. Price seems reasonable coming from a boutique manufacturer.

At $2850, I really can't see too many of the Blue Coconut Echo Verbs flying off the shelf but I guess you never know.

To the OP;

I love my RE-201. I haven't had any problems with mine but will happily pay any repair costs that may come up down the road. If you're not willing to pay for potential upkeep on vintage kit, I'd say check out the Fulltone or perhaps the Moogerfooger analog delay.

[clusterchord]

and example how it works with digitla synth; here im tweakin Re-201 delay time over waldorf XT :

http://www.babic.com/SYN/XT/clc_XT_space_echo.mp3

[Clem Snide]

Originally Posted by clusterchord

and example how it works with digitla synth; here im tweakin Re-201 delay time over waldorf XT :

http://www.babic.com/SYN/XT/clc_XT_space_echo.mp3

Call me a burnt out, freaky acid-head, but I just listened to that track 3 times and loved it!

[clusterchord]

thanks guys. XT is really made for real time tweakage.