Does anybody here actually make music?? (I mean music not cool synth sounds)

[imaketunes]

Hey Guy's,

Just found this forum and it's really cool, lot's of great information etc...

The thing is I think that as digital musicians we may be guilty of spending too long finding the ''perfect sound'' and when finding it - not actually making anything worth listening too.

I mean comparing diff synth's, sequencers, digital vs analog, trying to find the best monitors, cpu and plugin's can only gets you so far and in most cases doesn't even matter - does it?

Recently I have found myself guilty of this - I mean the fact im on here instead of working on my next electro-house smasher is starting to make me think I got my priorities wrong...

Lack of inspiration turning you into a 'perfect phat sound geek'' too?

On a sidenote - how good is this Arturia Mini Moog synth and will that give me the bass I crave?? Or should I look to go down the Virus/Nord hardware route??

iMakeTunes (only sometimes though lol)

[imaketunes]

To give an analogy..

A guitar player can spend all day and loads of money getting the best guitar, best amp and fx - fine tuning the set up to get a fantastic sound - then just banging bottom E or play those simple chord changes he always does.....

A guy with a £20 nylon he got second hand can spend all day writing music and turn into a success as he is focusing on what is important..

It's very easy to assume creativity and focus on gear (music making gear that is) - on the other hand creativity does come along, particularly in dance music, as a result of finding 'that sound'.

But spending all day worrying about the accuracy of your speakers or the compression on your new bass line will probably turn into a waste of time - This is diff for people who are engineers by the way, of course!

[feyshay]

Another analogy, spending excessive amounts of time trying to find the right preamp (or set of preamps), converter, equalizer, compressor, etc.
I'm sure someone's gotta be making some music, right?
If you don't have the right sound or right equipment, it can always be an excuse for not making music. It can be easier for some (I don't exclude myself from that list) to buy and tweak than create.

[imaketunes]

Yeh thats a better example - worrying about and investing in outboard audio processing gear for audio that always sounds the same - or doesn't even go in!

[Jay-]

I have finished my 70th song. All long songs, up wards 10 min.
All post audio sound track style. Very little oozing synth pads and drums, no beats what so ever. Real drums (samples) all ethnic sets.

This year, blues and country, bit of punk, even some twangy country blues now.

I have all pro sumer hardware, I admit I am obsessed over my strat and "tone" have a TS-808 (first year ever produced, pre USA its in the original Ibanez over drive case not the TS-808 almost a prototype)

But my other stuff is simple, mic is cheap but good. Amps are all tube.,
My mixer is cheap, pre amps are cheap..

Thats where I fall into.. Not working for a studio, never even applied for a job! I enjoy making music for my self although its all a bit more complex then "electronic" music but its all electronic.

Iv had my songs as track of the day several times (yeah so has every one) but I had one song #90? I think #90 out of 300,000 ? Sure, nothing big.. but wow, big for me...

[keybdwizrd]

There are certainly some on this board (and others) who find interest and entertainment in the pursuit of things (and discussions) involving electronic music without any evidence of actually making any music. Perhaps they keep it to themselves. On the other hand there are plenty of people who are passionate about things like baseball, and devote lots of time and energy to talking about it, who don't actually play the sport.

Composing music can be hard work. I speak from personal experience when saying it is possible to fritter away lots of time online and futzing about with hardware/software as opposed to actually playing anything.

Regarding Arturia's Minimoog, I believe you can download a demo from Arturia's site and decide for yourself. I recall trying the demo before purchasing it myself several years ago. I don't believe I've actually composed or recorded any music while using it, however.

[sleepwalker]

Depends on what you're into electronic music for. 80% of the time, my electronic music is more of a zen garden. I start making sounds, 8 hours later I stop making sounds. Whether or not I go back to this work at a later date doesn't really mean much to me.

Ask yourself why you're spending your time the way you do, then based on your answer, act accordingly. My methods would be a nightmare for a producer on a deadline.

[Jay-]

I remember the first ever EM magazine I got (1994) and it said golden words to live by, "A $3000 pre amp will not make you sound better, learn more guitar cords, make music or STFU" To this day, I still cant afford a $3000 pre amp. but not sure id buy one, I would buy the API lunch box tho..

[kingofswing]

Regarding Arturia Minimoog V - all good stuff. It does lack the true analog balls, but gets you a similar vibe in digital form. Totally usable for leads, blips, some pads, etc. I just find that sometimes I have used bass patches, and it craps out during playback (inconsistent software oscillators). I always end up replacing the bass with something from my hardware synths.

[Dirty Halo]

Do you mean this part of the forum or Gearslutz?

If you look at many of the people here... you'd be humbled by the very idea of "Do any of you make music...?"

Some of THE most prolific and accomplished producers, engineers and artists post here.

-andrews

Yes, infact I usually just sit behind the piano and write music rather than producing so that I have a finished product (god, I hate to use that word in music )!

I'm not kidding at all... I have difficulties finishing stuff and painting the whole picture.

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by imaketunes

Hey Guy's,

Just found this forum and it's really cool, lot's of great information etc...

The thing is I think that as digital musicians we may be guilty of spending too long finding the ''perfect sound'' and when finding it - not actually making anything worth listening too.

I mean comparing diff synth's, sequencers, digital vs analog, trying to find the best monitors, cpu and plugin's can only gets you so far and in most cases doesn't even matter - does it?

Recently I have found myself guilty of this - I mean the fact im on here instead of working on my next electro-house smasher is starting to make me think I got my priorities wrong...

Lack of inspiration turning you into a 'perfect phat sound geek'' too?

On a sidenote - how good is this Arturia Mini Moog synth and will that give me the bass I crave?? Or should I look to go down the Virus/Nord hardware route??

iMakeTunes (only sometimes though lol)

I agree with most of the stuff you mention here...and it's so true - Gear does sometimes take away the main focus of being a musician, song writer, producer, the 'beat maker', etc.

In saying that, if one has the talent to make music, and has the ability to make most of the magical process happen with in a carefully constructed composistion, the next step is to consider some form of post production.

Using quality bits of gear can help enhance a 'home made' production to a new level. But getting the right balance between music and gear is the key...though i'm still working on that. I hav to admit getting caught up with gear lust for almost two years and lost the main focus of creating music, which is how I started off in the first place. It took a while, but I finally got back into writing again and have come to terms that the 'gear' plays a small part after the much bigger part - 'the creative mind behind it'.

[imaketunes]

Originally Posted by kingofswing

Regarding Arturia Minimoog V - all good stuff. It does lack the true analog balls, but gets you a similar vibe in digital form. Totally usable for leads, blips, some pads, etc. I just find that sometimes I have used bass patches, and it craps out during playback (inconsistent software oscillators). I always end up replacing the bass with something from my hardware synths.

Hey, thanks for that.

I am more of a creative guy and the reason im on here is to try to get as near as a finished product as possible to be honest. Im using a simple set up (Logic 8, M-Box, M-Audio Midi Keyboard) and since leaving my band after uni decided to give house producing a go, as I have DJ'd a fair amount in the past

The bass is the only thing I am finding difficult (and the mix/mastering, but i'll leave that to somebody familiar with the art) to achieve using the ES2 and other software synths in logic.

I watched a couple of video's (from this site - thanks guy's) and a load of the top producers seem to stress that they use hardware for their bass, the minimoog sounds really cool in one of the vid's and the Nord seems to be a favorite for D Ramirez.

Do you suggest spending a couple of hundred quid on the Arturia stuff or trying to save for a really decent hardware synth? If that latter what do you think is the best option for under $3000?

(The bass on a house track is like a kick drum in a rock band - banging your foot on a tambourine does not exactly give the same effect!!!) - I STILL STICK TO MY ORIGINAL POINTS LOL

[imaketunes]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Do you mean this part of the forum or Gearslutz?

If you look at many of the people here... you'd be humbled by the very idea of "Do any of you make music...?"

Some of THE most prolific and accomplished producers, engineers and artists post here.

-andrews

Hey dude,

It wasn't meant to be confrontational - sorry. I have no doubt that alot of the guy's on here are what I aspire to be.

Just after diving in to music technology for the first time the amount of emphasis that is put on the SOUND instead of the MUSIC does shock me a fair amount, do you know what I mean?

Writing and engineering are two different art's but speaking as somebody who does (try's to do) both, I was just wondering about how other producers/writers approach it.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by imaketunes

Hey dude,

It wasn't meant to be confrontational - sorry. I have no doubt that alot of the guy's on here are what I aspire to be.

Just after diving in to music technology for the first time the amount of emphasis that is put on the SOUND instead of the MUSIC does shock me a fair amount, do you know what I mean?

Writing and engineering are two different art's but speaking as somebody who does (try's to do) both, I was just wondering about how other producers/writers approach it.

No worries, but this IS Gearslutz. By virtue, it's about the gear in relation to capturing the best music possible.

If you want to talk just music, I'm sure there are forums for that.

No hard feelings, it's just, the title of the forum says it all and is the nature of the beast (and just a means to an end; music)

-andrews

[imaketunes]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

No worries, but this IS Gearslutz. By virtue, it's about the gear in relation to capturing the best music possible.

If you want to talk just music, I'm sure there are forums for that.

No hard feelings, it's just, the title of the forum says it all and is the nature of the beast (and just a means to an end; music)

-andrews

Appreciated - just assumed that the whole purpose of getting gear for most people was to make music, electronic music in this area - just wanted some advice and to spark what i though was an interesting topic for the bedroom producer

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by imaketunes

Just after diving in to music technology for the first time the amount of emphasis that is put on the SOUND instead of the MUSIC does shock me a fair amount, do you know what I mean?

I'm sure most cats that post here are musicians but there are many of us here who also engineer for a living. Whether I am hired to engineer a music session or to mix a tv show, I get paid to focus solely on making the project sound the best that it can.

There are some amazing musicians who couldn't program their way out of a paper bag (they hire a 'phat sound geek' to do it for them!), while there are others that excel in both areas. For example, when Chick Corea started to experiment with softsynths he hired an assistant to do his programming for him (not saying that Chick is not a great synthesist in his own right!). Chick did not want to expend his energy on learning the ins and outs of the new technology so he hired someone who could aid him in realizing his creative vision. Being able to dial in patches based solely on another artist's verbal descriptions is a talent in and of itself!

Ultimately it is not important that you become an uber gear nerd if your passion lies strictly in composing. However, it is important for you to understand and appreciate that there is a vital role in the audio world for those obssesed with getting that 'perfect sound'!

While great performances can be captured on a hand held tape recorder, the marriage of an exceptional performance captured by an equally exceptional engineer is truly a match made in heaven!

[imaketunes]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I'm sure most cats that post here are musicians but there are many of us here who also engineer for a living. Whether I am hired to engineer a music session or to mix a tv show, I get paid to focus solely on making the project sound the best that it can.

There are some amazing musicians who couldn't program their way out of a paper bag (they hire a 'phat sound geek' to do it for them!), while there are others that excel in both areas. For example, when Chick Corea started to experiment with softsynths he hired an assistant to do his programming for him (not saying that Chick is not a great synthesist in his own right!). Chick did not want to expend his energy on learning the ins and outs of the new technology so he hired someone who could aid him in realizing his creative vision. Being able to dial in patches based solely on another artist's verbal descriptions is a talent in and of itself!

Ultimately it is not important that you become an uber gear nerd if your passion lies strictly in composing. However, it is important for you to understand and appreciate that there is a vital role in the audio world for those obssesed with getting that 'perfect sound'!

While great performances can be captured on a hand held tape recorder, the marriage of an exceptional performance captured by an equally exceptional engineer is truly a match made in heaven!

Hey - very well said and if I could turn back 4 years I have no doubt that I would have chosen Audio Engineering instead of what I did at college.

I have nothing but the upmost envy and respect for all of you guy's who can do that and the knowledge you have build up over the years and at 22 I am starting my journey into this music tech world.

I think this is the wrong place to discuss the balance of technological and creative focus in writing electro house music.

If anybody can help me me out with a decent bass synth recommendation I would be very grateful.

Cheers

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by imaketunes

If anybody can help me me out with a decent bass synth recommendation I would be very grateful.

Cheers

For a few hundred bucks you can get a used Waldorf Pulse that will kill anything you'll be able to conjure out of the Arturia plug. Run it through a nice distortion box, sprinkle on a little bit crusher and call it a day!

On a pricier note, the Korg MS-20 seems to be the flavor of the month for alot of electro acts. Definitely worth considering if you've got the dough but the Pulse will add alot of meat to your tracks without breaking the bank.

If it's the Moog sound you're after than do not overlook the Voyager! You should be able to find a used RME for a decent price and it sounds dirty, dirty through a nice fuzz box.

[Tibbon]

Just sounds here, no songs. Duh

[PHR]

Check out some thoughts from Theo Parrish on music:

Red Bull Music Academy :: THE ACADEMY :: DIARIES

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature-read.aspx?id=896

YouTube - Theo Parrish in 'Sounds Of the City' - by adidas Originals

BBC - collective - detriot techno's third wave - theo parrish interview

Spannered | Theo Parrish | music | features | artist interview

[nonstatic]

yes.

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Good ****ing lord thumbsup
I've always longed for the Voyager... but damn, 2-3k on a mono synth is something to think about.

[Bitfiend]

hmmmmmm, so many ways to go with this.........

isn't a song just a string of sounds our brain has been conditioned to accept or interperate in a certain sequence or order and assign the parameter of a "song" to?

ok enough BS. Yep, i write and rmx songs. And yes they are released on several techno labels....blah, blah, blah.

This is GS, a place more aimed at discussing the gear and the application of it. If you're worried about tracks, go look in the forum that is for that. This doesn't happen to be it (forget the title of it...).
I came here because as you grow and learn about the music you are making you start to realize or come to understand how certain pieces of gear can either help or hinder your track. the way your room is set up. the tx of the walls, etc.
in my case, i'm finding i want the most accurate and truest representation of anything i do, to hit my ears. Therefore i get on GS and start researching and reading about DAC's and monitors...
Well and posting questions about other things that come up.

Oh and the MiniMoog, ACES!!!! I have used the helloutta it and luv it! Great for basslines, lead lines, arps, etc. very flexible and have never had an issue with it.

[perx]

I have not met a single artist or producer, or musician for that matter that doesnt love to talk about creating music...

From talking about lyrics with a singer, to talking about synths or plugins with other producers or about this and that..

We all do it...

It´s not uncommon for me to work with other producers during a day.. take the lunch off and spend the lunch eating AND talking about producing. Then go back in the studio, work - and on the breaks.. Talk more about producing! Kinda natural if you ask me.

The less we are in the studio though, the more we have time to talk about it.. The more we are in the studio.. The less we talk about it.. ;-)

For me it goes in waves.. I´ve found myself posting more lately than I usually do.. which isnt good. ;-)

[MrHope]

Originally Posted by sleepwalker

Depends on what you're into electronic music for. 80% of the time, my electronic music is more of a zen garden. I start making sounds, 8 hours later I stop making sounds. Whether or not I go back to this work at a later date doesn't really mean much to me.

Ask yourself why you're spending your time the way you do, then based on your answer, act accordingly. My methods would be a nightmare for a producer on a deadline.

I like your attitude. I bet you make good music too.

[kingofswing]

To the OP:

You may want to check out the Moog Little Phatty...sounds pretty fat and has a good range of analog bass tones. The 'overdrive' feature is great for a bit more attitude. It is a Moog synth afterall.

[crufty]

Personally, I liken the act of music creation to be like sex. Part of sex, of course, is being sexy. Some people are born sexy. Some people really have to work at it. And some--never will get there. Without beer, anyway But most people--if they make some cash, drive the right car, dress just so, hit the gym, eat right, etc, can pull off some degree of attraction from their desired gender

Then...there's the actual act. Sure, you can err have self relations a lot -- easy, feels good, always available -- but its just not the same.

So it is with music. I'm not sure that the creative act of putting sounds together really produces music, unless other people are interested in listening to it. This isn't to disparage anybody else's definition, far from it--i think its neat that everyone takes time to record their creations, and I to try to take the time to listen to what people put in their sigs.

But for me, I feel in my bones a lot of what I've created is ******y, and not actual music. So to answer the OP question--I don't spend so much time perfecting the sounds. I'm not sure what I make is very musical, but I do make a special effort each week to plan and record a 5 minute err wank. I don't share it but with a select few because who really cares? Few do.

Most of the time, its just wanking....but every now and then, it gets into something deeper and more evocative. Something that maybe, a few other folks might enjoy. So I keep on trying, learning, etc.

Also, I would dare say it all matters. The sound, the recording process, the song writing process, the key playing, the midi sequencing...it all matters. If one isn't happy with a sound, how can one make music one wants to hear? Its not wasted time if something is learned. I wouldn't worry about what other people think--worry about what YOU think, or, if you have loftier goals, your target market: your label, your A&R guy, your producer, your audience, etc. Myself, I have learned what I like and what feels right for me...like the guy with the $20 guitar strings, he knows what he's good with. And having to multitrack everything in is a BIG PIA.

I know its a sin to suggest, but you might consider a vengeance / refx-vst rompler / zerog sample to assist with bassline etc. The sounds are usually drop in ready, and if you are going for a canonical feel, why not leverage someone else's expertise and experience?

[aeonsound]

i am predominantly an electronic musician. i write, release and perform psychedelic music. i'm a regular fish in a small pond, where album pressings are measured in thousands... but nonetheless i've been lucky enough to play some amazing gigs. say what you will about psychedelic dance music, but we do put on the best parties

there's an awful lot to be said for the creative impact of limitation. with fewer tools, you tend to be more experimental in your technique to achieve certain sounds. by the same measure, i think we're all always searching for something; the drive to look for the latest & greatest, the impetus to keep tweaking, the desire to learn more... these are natural and relatively healthy impulses, imho, as long as they're balanced with the creative impetus.

[kilon]

Originally Posted by imaketunes

Hey dude,

It wasn't meant to be confrontational - sorry. I have no doubt that alot of the guy's on here are what I aspire to be.

Just after diving in to music technology for the first time the amount of emphasis that is put on the SOUND instead of the MUSIC does shock me a fair amount, do you know what I mean?

Writing and engineering are two different art's but speaking as somebody who does (try's to do) both, I was just wondering about how other producers/writers approach it.

You cannot make good music without having very good sounds to back it up.

Sound synthesis is an ancient art which started long before music had appeared.

Music and sound are one thing. If music is an organism , sounds are the molecules.

Here you hear my music

MySpace.com - Kilon - Athens, GR - Ambient / Electronica / Classical - www.myspace.com/thekilon

www.soundclick.com/kilon